Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition.

[jnrjr79]

I think this is more to do with being tired of losing and being scapegoated by the Bulls then hating Donovan.

Pretty sure he doesn't like the way the Bulls are coached, doesn't like Vuc's game, and that's why he quit on the team when they were 5-14. I don't blame him in regards to Vuc. They've been a bad pairing, and Lonzo/Demar/Caruso/Javonte were the additions that made us click for 2 months, not Vuc. Still, he got the 3.5X the bags that Vuc did, and a professional making that money should keep a smile on his face and try to elevate/support his team, not pout.

I think on a personal level, they all got along about as well as possible for a group that wasn't gelling at all, WANTED to win, and lost at a really high rate, on a relatively easy schedule. But when he made the trade demand, and on top of it, the Bulls then played better, I believe Billy and AK were like "OK - time to move on," and Zach's probably like 'thank you." Unfortunately for both sides, yet another injury delayed the inevitable.

I also think that Zach and Klutch thought they could be cute and trade their way to the Lakers... but they underestimated that Austin Reaves would have a clearly higher trade value than Zach.

IMO the organization has to keep its thoughts private, but I'm sure they are all incredibly disappointed and pissed off with LaVine for the trade demand, barely a year into his giant 5y max extension that was offered without any pushback. If you're Durant or Kawhi, atleast you back that up with elite play in the worst of times (injuries or bad teammates). Zach had the worst numbers of his career.

Anyway, I'm not debating anything. Just ranting thoughts on Zach and the Bulls. I blame both sides, and I also see both sides. Honestly didn't think it would get to this. This inevitable trade (crap return) is probably going to be the nail in this FO's coffin, if not settling on a 3y deal with Demar. A cap dump would be better, but they're gonna really shoot for some 'replacement level' players that'll just bog the cap and treadmill further down (Herro/Duncan, Gabe/Rui/D'Lo, THJ/Kleiber, or is it a ripe time for 40yo Chris Paul's retirement ceremony in Chicago?). I could see CJ McCollum really fitting AK's (and Billy's) vision as well. 6'2 SG approaching 32yo - what's not to love?

He never made "a trade demand" . Billy and AK had been trying to trade him for months before Zach said anything.

This is exactly what I am talking about in my previous posts.

Again, you're just making this up. It may or may not be true, because none of us knows. It's perfectly possible that the Bulls had been shopping him for years and that he also separately and subsequently made a trade demand. But you can't say "because the Bulls first had trade talks about him, it's not possible he demanded a trade."

My guess (and it's a guess, because we don't know), is that Zach's agent had a conversation with the Bulls' FO indicating Zach would prefer to be elsewhere. That may not be a "demand," but it would be a request. And I'm not critical of him for doing that if he did. If he did it, it appears to have been done privately and did not involve a media circus. Good for Zach!

And the Bulls didn't play better without Lavine. Coby White went on a tear and played better; for a short while. It doesn't matter who you put on the court, the Bulls end result is the same. Which makes you wonder what the coach is doing, doesn't it? No matter the level of talent on the court, the result is the same.

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10-15 with LaVine. 29-28 without. 40% win percentage with, 51% without. By definition, the Bulls played better without him. Maybe that's correlation; maybe it's causation. The reason may have been Coby's improved play, but of course, that's directly related to Zach being out, as it allowed Coby to step into the #2 role. And one thing you have to think about when hanging onto core players when that core has hit its ceiling is whether they are standing in the way of the development of up-and-comers.

Now, neither win % is anything to write home about, I agree. But no, it sure doesn't "make you wonder what the coach is doing." Billy is no great shakes, but the Bulls are not an excellent head coach away from being some sort of legitimate playoff team. This team's problem is the roster. Everything else is way, way behind that concern.

[drosestruts]

As the playoffs go on I can't help but see the Magic as a team that more and more could use Zach.

Right now they're starting Gary Harris at their 2-guard who's sporting a 38% TS% so far in the playoffs while scoring 4 points per game.

And their top guys aren't doing better - Banchero has a 56% TS%.


Magic had the third best defensive rating this past season so they could afford to take on Zach on that end.

Not really sure what the trade would look like - but it's easy to see them as a team with a need for a player like Zach.

[mack2354]

I want to see The Bulls explore a trade for Durant. Zach Lavine and Caruso works in the trade machine. I'd be willing to throw in Vucevic and Carter if they can get a third team involved to balance dollars and value.

The next move would be is to Sign n Trade DDR for draft capital. We end the Mid 3 Era without tanking.

Coby, Ayo, P Will, Durant, Drummond, 5 Javonte's and Craig gets us back to the play in at a minimum. Any emergence from Terry and/or Ball coming back to 80% of his former self and we could be a playoff team.

We still will be a treadmill team but we won't have the Mid 3's contracts to deal with and we can recoup some draft capital to help move forward after Durant retires in a couple of years.

I don't see Durant wanting to go to a team that isn't a contender but if resigning DDR is enough to make him content then I can stomach a 3-4 year contract.

It'd be nice to see what Billy's offense looks like with size at the PF position for once.

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[MrSparkle]

I want to see The Bulls explore a trade for Durant. Zach Lavine and Caruso works in the trade machine. I'd be willing to throw in Vucevic and Carter if they can get a third team involved to balance dollars and value.

The next move would be is to Sign n Trade DDR for draft capital. We end the Mid 3 Era without tanking.

Coby, Ayo, P Will, Durant, Drummond, 5 Javonte's and Craig gets us back to the play in at a minimum. Any emergence from Terry and/or Ball coming back to 80% of his former self and we could be a playoff team.

We still will be a treadmill team but we won't have the Mid 3's contracts to deal with and we can recoup some draft capital to help move forward after Durant retires in a couple of years.

I don't see Durant wanting to go to a team that isn't a contender but if resigning DDR is enough to make him content then I can stomach a 3-4 year contract.

It'd be nice to see what Billy's offense looks like with size at the PF position for once.

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PHX doesn't own their pick (or via swap) until 2031. They are simply not in position to make such a trade unless the Bulls cough up 4 unprotected FRPs to off-set that damage. I also don't know what they do with Lavine, Booker and Beal on the same roster, making around $150M altogether.

[PaKii94]

Poor Zach he's so misunderstood and no one wants him

Billy obviously benched him and told him GTFO the team leaving lavine no other option but to slowly trudge over to AKs office, sigh and say "if you truly don't want me here then I'm ok with moving to a different team"

Darn you Billy D!!!!!

[DuckIII]

I’m disoriented and confused as to why it matters if Zach demanded a trade and how that would theoretically impact his trade value.

Ultimately I don’t think it matters.

[WindyCityBorn]

Poor Zach he's so misunderstood and no one wants him

Billy obviously benched him and told him GTFO the team leaving lavine no other option but to slowly trudge over to AKs office, sigh and say "if you truly doing want me here then I'm ok with moving to a different team"

Darn you Billy D!!!!!

I mean AK shopped him for a year before he asked out. He has always been big on loyalty (AK) mutual respect(Donovan) so once that was gone it’s no surprise this happened.

[WindyCityBorn]

I’m disoriented and confused as to why it matters if Zach demanded and trade and how that would theoretically impact his trade value.

Ultimately I don’t think it matters.

Apparently it means he has to be gone ASAP even though rehabbing his value would be smarter. Let him start of next season back at 50/40/85 and we definitely be able to get a lot more than we can this summer. Just more poor management from AK.

[jnrjr79]

I’m disoriented and confused as to why it matters if Zach demanded and trade and how that would theoretically impact his trade value.

Ultimately I don’t think it matters.

Apparently it means he has to be gone ASAP even though rehabbing his value would be smarter. Let him start of next season back at 50/40/85 and we definitely be able to get a lot more than we can this summer. Just more poor management from AK.

Lol, AK sucks, but I don’t think we can criticize them for trading Zach too early until they’ve actually traded him!

[Chi town]

As the playoffs go on I can't help but see the Magic as a team that more and more could use Zach.

Right now they're starting Gary Harris at their 2-guard who's sporting a 38% TS% so far in the playoffs while scoring 4 points per game.

And their top guys aren't doing better - Banchero has a 56% TS%.


Magic had the third best defensive rating this past season so they could afford to take on Zach on that end.

Not really sure what the trade would look like - but it's easy to see them as a team with a need for a player like Zach.

Don’t see AK trading with the Magic. Would have to be crazy overpay.

[PaKii94]

Poor Zach he's so misunderstood and no one wants him

Billy obviously benched him and told him GTFO the team leaving lavine no other option but to slowly trudge over to AKs office, sigh and say "if you truly doing want me here then I'm ok with moving to a different team"

Darn you Billy D!!!!!

I mean AK shopped him for a year before he asked out. He has always been big on loyalty (AK) mutual respect(Donovan) so once that was gone it’s no surprise this happened.

He should be big on accountability and self reflection. He got paid the max from AK and Billy didn't bench him until his poor performance.

[DuckIII]

I’m disoriented and confused as to why it matters if Zach demanded and trade and how that would theoretically impact his trade value.

Ultimately I don’t think it matters.

Apparently it means he has to be gone ASAP even though rehabbing his value would be smarter. Let him start of next season back at 50/40/85 and we definitely be able to get a lot more than we can this summer. Just more poor management from AK.

Oh, there’s no doubt he should have been traded two trade deadlines ago. Along with DDR and Vuc. I’m just saying we are now where we are and his value is what it is. It seems to me all of that is based on his perceived value as a basketball player.

I’ve never heard, and his record does not support, that he’s perceived as a malcontent or having a poor attitude and that this is hurting his value. We see way more public drama than this damn near every year with some big name player or another and people still pony up some pretty nice trade packages. Plus if anything Zach has been one of the most loyal and patient players in the league relative to what we see often.

I understand if Strat feels Bulls fans are using the “trade demand” as a way to bag on Zach, so he wants to set the record straight. I personally feel some of the negative comments towards Zach are ridiculous.

But I ultimately don’t see it (the “trade demand”) being of any consequence to what the Bulls can do or to his market value.

[WindyCityBorn]

Poor Zach he's so misunderstood and no one wants him

Billy obviously benched him and told him GTFO the team leaving lavine no other option but to slowly trudge over to AKs office, sigh and say "if you truly doing want me here then I'm ok with moving to a different team"

Darn you Billy D!!!!!

I mean AK shopped him for a year before he asked out. He has always been big on loyalty (AK) mutual respect(Donovan) so once that was gone it’s no surprise this happened.

He should be big on accountability and self reflection. He got paid the max from AK and Billy didn't bench him until his poor performance.

Yet Vuc never got benched.

[kodo]

I’m disoriented and confused as to why it matters if Zach demanded and trade and how that would theoretically impact his trade value.

Ultimately I don’t think it matters.

Apparently it means he has to be gone ASAP even though rehabbing his value would be smarter. Let him start of next season back at 50/40/85 and we definitely be able to get a lot more than we can this summer. Just more poor management from AK.

I think as long as he plays enough to show the surgery went well, and by all accounts it did, his value is mostly set.

Although KC did post that it sounds like some teams don't even need to see him play next season, they're willing to deal for him in the summer. Although it would make sense if the teams who don't need to wait to see him are giving AK the worst offers.

[PaKii94]

I mean AK shopped him for a year before he asked out. He has always been big on loyalty (AK) mutual respect(Donovan) so once that was gone it’s no surprise this happened.

He should be big on accountability and self reflection. He got paid the max from AK and Billy didn't bench him until his poor performance.

Yet Vuc never got benched.

That's a whole nother travisty

[DuckIII]

I have been holding out hope that the 76ers losing might generate a suitor for Lavine, and I love the fit for the 76ers. I continue to believe that if Zach lands on a solid team with an established hierarchy as the third scorer, he’s absolutely a championship caliber contributor.

But I just watched a breakdown of the 76ers offseason and I didn’t realize they had $60 million in cap space. They are going to have quite a few options.

Probably wasn’t very realistic anyway.

[dougthonus]

I have been holding out hope that the 76ers losing might generate a suitor for Lavine, and I love the fit for the 76ers. I continue to believe that if Zach lands on a solid team with an established hierarchy as the third scorer, he’s absolutely a championship caliber contributor.

But I just watched a breakdown of the 76ers offseason and I didn’t realize they had $60 million in cap space. They are going to have quite a few options.

Probably wasn’t very realistic anyway.

I think you are thinking of this wrong in some ways. The amount of cap room they have means that they are a better suitor for Zach. They are far away from the luxury tax and have room to take on a ton of salary.

Look at this FA class:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2024

Maybe they will throw the max at Paul George and pay him like 250M for 4 years, but Zach's deal at 3/150 or so seems like a pretty reasonable bargain in comparison doesn't it? Especially since you know that Embiid is probably getting restless and if the George / Maxey / Embiid group doesn't work, you're probably going to have George on a contract you absolutely hate for 3 years vs Zach on a contract you can live with for 2.

Outside of that, the list is very dim if you presume that Siakam, LeBron, and OG stay where they are.

So if FA prospects are dim, then you start looking at the trade market. They don't have much to trade except draft picks and cap room, and certainly if they want to do a big 4 1st rounder and salary relief trade for someone they will be able to, but I'd say they could trade with the Bulls and just offer us cap room and nothing else and we would say yes.

I'm not sure what other stars may be on the market for the massive haul of 1st rounders, but that style of trade has also burned people pretty badly and it may not be something they want to entertain either.

I'm not saying that Zach to Philly is a no brainer, but I can definitely see the case where it's a really appealing option given the low cost. I think the biggest hang up will be uncertainty about Zach's health and the fact that they probably need to do something in the summer before Zach can prove he's healthy (which is going to be a difficult challenge for any off-season trade of Zach).

[WindyCityBorn]

I have been holding out hope that the 76ers losing might generate a suitor for Lavine, and I love the fit for the 76ers. I continue to believe that if Zach lands on a solid team with an established hierarchy as the third scorer, he’s absolutely a championship caliber contributor.

But I just watched a breakdown of the 76ers offseason and I didn’t realize they had $60 million in cap space. They are going to have quite a few options.

Probably wasn’t very realistic anyway.

I think you are thinking of this wrong in some ways. The amount of cap room they have means that they are a better suitor for Zach. They are far away from the luxury tax and have room to take on a ton of salary.

Look at this FA class:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2024

Maybe they will throw the max at Paul George and pay him like 250M for 4 years, but Zach's deal at 3/150 or so seems like a pretty reasonable bargain in comparison doesn't it? Especially since you know that Embiid is probably getting restless and if the George / Maxey / Embiid group doesn't work, you're probably going to have George on a contract you absolutely hate for 3 years vs Zach on a contract you can live with for 2.

Outside of that, the list is very dim if you presume that Siakam, LeBron, and OG stay where they are.

So if FA prospects are dim, then you start looking at the trade market. They don't have much to trade except draft picks and cap room, and certainly if they want to do a big 4 1st rounder and salary relief trade for someone they will be able to, but I'd say they could trade with the Bulls and just offer us cap room and nothing else and we would say yes.

I'm not sure what other stars may be on the market for the massive haul of 1st rounders, but that style of trade has also burned people pretty badly and it may not be something they want to entertain either.

I'm not saying that Zach to Philly is a no brainer, but I can definitely see the case where it's a really appealing option given the low cost. I think the biggest hang up will be uncertainty about Zach's health and the fact that they probably need to do something in the summer before Zach can prove he's healthy (which is going to be a difficult challenge for any off-season trade of Zach).

This is why DeRozan makes sense for them.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I think Paul George to the Sixers is fait accompli.

But failing that? I imagine they’ll target DeMar despite the imperfect fit. Compounding Embiid’s injury and steadiness issues with Zach’s seems like a complete non-starter.

[dougthonus]

This is why DeRozan makes sense for them.

DeRozan doesn't fit any team needs. They need shooting, perimeter defense, and off-ball player. DeRozan is none of those things. They do not need an isolation pound the ball, mid range player. He'll cramp the spacing for both Embiid and Maxey, and he will rarely have the ball in his hands.

If DeMar is available cheap enough, maybe they'd go that route, but DeMar reportedly already turned down 2/80 from the Bulls, so he's not going to be a "cheap" option. He's also discussed pretty openly in the pats about wanting the most money on his deals. You would probably have to pay DeMar close to as much money as Zach over the same years to get him. In that scenario, if I'm Philly and I can just do a straight Zach into cap space swap, I'd take that.

If I'm the Bulls, I'd also rather have Zach than DeMar at the same price, though perhaps the personal relationships there are beyond repair.