Boylan: TT should be near the basket, not on the perimeter

[JeremyB0001]

This article has already been discussed a little in the "I'm rooting for loses" thread, so, Mods, feel free to merge if necessary.

Thomas is averaging 5.9 points and 4.5 rebounds in 16.5 minutes and has played just 12 minutes 57 seconds in Jim Boylan's first five games as coach.

"No one has lost faith in him," Boylan insisted. "In the short term, those [comparisons] are unfair to make.

"You have to give guys a good stretch of time, several years, and then you can make those judgments. Both those guys are in their second year and I would say, probably if I had to, Tyrus had a better first year than LaMarcus did."

In their rookie seasons, Aldridge averaged nine points, five rebounds and 1.2 blocks in 22.1 minutes for a bad Blazers team. Thomas averaged 5.2 points, 3.7 rebounds and 1.1 blocks in 13.4 minutes for a playoff team.

"Now LaMarcus is coming on," Boylan said. "I'm sure Ty will do whatever he can do to get back in the rotation and prove he was the pick we should've taken."

Thomas entered to solid applause at the 10:05 mark of the second quarter for Deng. Thomas, who had two points and a rebound, left shortly thereafter with a bloodied mouth.

"When he's around the basket and active on both ends blocking shots and attacking the glass, he's a very good player," Boylan said. "When he drifts out on the perimeter, that's not his game."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com ... -headlines

The bolded quote frustrates me some because while I agree that Tyrus is best near the basket, he doesn't have many opportunities to play that way on this team. Offensively, except for the rare occasions when he's paired with Smith in the front court, Tyrus is better on the perimeter than his front court mate (Wallace, Noah, Gray) and hence can't hang out near the basket all that often. Defensively, Tyrus has been asked to guard a lot of guys who play on the perimeter this season (Outlaw tonight, Bargnani, etc.) and thus hasn't been able to hang out near the basket and block shots much. Boylan has claimed he decides when to play Tyrus based on match ups and yet seems to have matched him up with perimeter players thus far.

If Boylan believes Tyrus needs to be near the basket, he needs to find ways to play Tyrus near the basket (e.g. with Smith), as opposed to blaming Tyrus after playing him in lineups that drag him out to the perimeter.

[Dearth]

The most damning quote of that article is found in the next paragraph:

"Boylan's assessment of Aldridge?

'Aldridge may be the best running big man in the league,' he said. "He changes ends every single time and runs hard"

Basically that is a stab at Tyrus not changing ends, Boylan is much more subtle than Skiles but it shows you what he'd like Tyrus to be doing.

Your point on Tyrus guarding shooters is decent but on both offense and defense he needs to crash the boards I see him standing out near the elbow too often when offensive rebounds come off.

I want Tyrus to pick up some minutes if Deng sits and I want Tyrus to produce and he needs to pick up his game to earn more minutes.

[TB#1]

He doesn't want TYRUS on the perimeter?

How about Ben Freaking Wallace standing with the ball in his hands OUTSIDE THE THREE POINT LINE in the waning seconds of a tight, double overtime game?

I can't say it enough. The guy has been having some good games overall lately, but he should NOT be on the floor late in the game when the game is on the line and we need points, and if we HAVE to have him on the floor for defensive purposes, he should NEVER touch the ball on offense in those situations.

And yet, he does. He has been handling the ball on nearly every possession in these overtimes.

Good grief.

/OT rant.

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Oh, and I think the article definitely deserves its own thread instead of getting lost in the "switch to rooting for losses" thread.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

He doesn't want TYRUS on the perimeter?

How about Ben Freaking Wallace standing with the ball in his hands OUTSIDE THE THREE POINT LINE in the waning seconds of a tight, double overtime game?

I can't say it enough. The guy has been having some good games overall lately, but he should NOT be on the floor late in the game when the game is on the line and we need points, and if we HAVE to have him on the floor for defensive purposes, he should NEVER touch the ball on offense in those situations.

And yet, he does. He has been handling the ball on nearly every possession in these overtimes.

Good grief.

/OT rant.

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Oh, and I think the article definitely deserves its own thread instead of getting lost in the "switch to rooting for losses" thread.

Help me out TB, how many times did we run the pick and roll with Kirk and Wallace?

I counted at least 7 times we ran that play, Kirk was doubled and threw it to Ben who then proceeded to stand there with the ball for 3 or 4 seconds before passing it out and starting the sequence all over again. Good thing we didn't have Tyrus in there on that play, he would have really bogged down the offense.

[Beryl 96]

really hes on the peremeter too much eh? I thought he was on the bench too much.

...**** boylan.

[AirP.]

Well, all the forwards since Tyrus has been here have been guys who hit jumpers... PJ, J.Smith, M.Allen, Nocioni so what did he work on and is continuing to work on... his outside shot.

I myself want Tyrus 10 feet and closer to the rim at all times, get someone to drive and just toss the ball up Tyrus' airspace and let him finish it. Tyrus has shown the ability to shoot and make hook shots with either hand, he still needs to get stronger and not just that, but learn that he's stronger... as in not playing so quick he's off balanced and gets knocked to the floor.

Man... we have some nice athletic players, Deng, Noah and Tyrus but not a player who can attack the basket and pass to a nice cutter to utilize these guys. And when you attack the basket, you have to be smart about it, if you change direction to pull a defender, you do that to make an easier basket for another player... we have nobody that does that other then Duhon from time to time.

[Cliff Levingston]

This is the exact wrong attitude to have for a young player like Tyrus, at least offensively. At this stage of his development, you want to have him try a bit of everything and not go away from it. Let him get out on the perimeter, test his jump shot and work on his ability to drive the lane and make good decisions with the ball from there. Tyrus' game is tailor made for the high post, he just needs to refine his jump shot and decision making (which won't happen if you don't let him play there, let alone play him at all).

Frankly, offensively, Tyrus isn't any better in close to the basket than he is away from it until the shot goes up. Our guards don't look for the alley-oop and being put in tight quarters down low negates Tyrus' quickness; he just gets pushed around because he's too skinny (though not as much as you would expect). If anything, he's a better offensive rebounder from the perimeter, because when the shot goes up, he's got the quickness to get to the ball faster than most guys that will be guarding him and he's got the hops to get up over them.

On defense, you want Tyrus in close to the hoop. He's very quick, but when defending someone on the perimeter, he doesn't react too quickly to the first step of a guy trying to drive, and that's when he gets into trouble from a foul standpoint. Ideally, you want him off the ball but still relatively close to the basket so he can use his good instincts, quickness and athleticism to block a shot or steal a pass.

[robg]

Outside? Inside? This is what happens when we draft a tweener! TT is not powerfull inside and has to jump out of the gym to put the ball back in the basket. This guy has the athleticism & body size of a 3 but can rebound & block shots like a 4, go figure? And he can't shoot or dominate inside, no post up game cause most power forwards are bigger & stronger. So he is basically just an athletic guy off the bench when he is on, he is exciting & full of energy: blocking shots and dunking & rebounding BUT he cant do it consistently because he is a tweener!!!!!

[AirP.]

This is the exact wrong attitude to have for a young player like Tyrus, at least offensively. At this stage of his development, you want to have him try a bit of everything and not go away from it. Let him get out on the perimeter, test his jump shot and work on his ability to drive the lane and make good decisions with the ball from there. Tyrus' game is tailor made for the high post, he just needs to refine his jump shot and decision making (which won't happen if you don't let him play there, let alone play him at all).

Frankly, offensively, Tyrus isn't any better in close to the basket than he is away from it until the shot goes up. Our guards don't look for the alley-oop and being put in tight quarters down low negates Tyrus' quickness; he just gets pushed around because he's too skinny (though not as much as you would expect). If anything, he's a better offensive rebounder from the perimeter, because when the shot goes up, he's got the quickness to get to the ball faster than most guys that will be guarding him and he's got the hops to get up over them.

On defense, you want Tyrus in close to the hoop. He's very quick, but when defending someone on the perimeter, he doesn't react too quickly to the first step of a guy trying to drive, and that's when he gets into trouble from a foul standpoint. Ideally, you want him off the ball but still relatively close to the basket so he can use his good instincts, quickness and athleticism to block a shot or steal a pass.

I just see Tyrus as a rare athlete that can get unbelievably high up in a very small area. Giving him a distinct advantage if we had the guards who could attack and make a defense adjust to the drives.

The problem that Paxson didn't or possibly hasn't realized yet is that you need someone on the team that can utilize athletes. Why is Chandler doing better out of Chicago, his name is CP3... he understands how to making scoring oppertunities for Chandler by drawing the defense and just lobing the ball up. I don't know how many times I've seen Steve Nash just toss a ball up to have a player just push it into the basket for an easy 2.

I would do everything I could to get J.Kidd with a package of Wallace, (Hinrich or Gordon) and whoever else. Even with him having only a few years left, his playmaking ability would make this team much better and more importantly... he'd raise our young players confidences by utilizing their athletic ability.

I think a Kidd, Gordon, Deng, Thomas and Noah starting 5 would be a very dangerous team. Just let Kidd handle the ball 95% of the time and this team would look better and more exciting by leaps and bounds.

[JeffJordan]

Boylan is entirely correct on his assesment of where TT should be on the court. Not sure why so many are in disagreance here. Thomas cannot shoot, is a poor ball handler and not a smart passer... not yet at least and probably not for awhile if ever.

Thomas needs to be in the paint where he can rebound, block and dunk. He is an athletic player with barely any skills. If he works on what the coaches want him to work on he will be much better. I will take Boylan and Skiles assesment of Thomas over anyone in here anyday of the week. They see Thomas in practice every day and they know the game of basketball.

Noah is much better at knowing what he needs to do out on the court and seems more coachable as well.

[kyrv]

I agree 'in principle' that Tyrus should be near the basket. However, if you notice, the Bulls bigs rarely if ever get the ball unless they come outside.

Boylan - yes Tyrus had a better first year than Aldridge. Until you and Skiles had something to say about that. It's about Portland and Chicago, not player X and player Y though.

Tyrus was fine last year and in the playoffs and in college, now suddenly we pretend there is an issue changing ends? Huh? Nce continuation of the theme, Paxson made a royal screw up with Tyrus and, like Skiles, Boylan will make sure everybody knows about it.

[sonny]

Eh, this will make it all the more ironic when Tyrus is knocking down jumpshots in a few years for a different team.

[AirP.]

He's now knocking down shots for us from the outside and looks more fluid doing it. When he's setup down low, gets a ball, he has his hook shot with either hand and that looks good, but when it's a free for all in the low post after a rebound, he's kind of lost on how to get the ball in the basket. He's just not sure what to really do and this is the part of his game he really needs to work on, that and using one hand to make simple layups in close by outstretching his arms and dropping or finger rolling the ball 1-2 feet into the basket. He's got the athletic ability and the agility to learn these the question now is what is the coaching staff telling him to develop for this team first(other then a good jumper)?

[newskoolbulls]

We drafted TT to be a PF who is around the basket blocking shots and rebounding and getting some shots around the basket but yea i agree with Boylan that he is always on the perimeter. I am tired of you all defending TT. I love the kid but hes just not learning at a good pace, he has some good games but then goes back to his lazy self. If you noticed he is always the last one up the court, always when there is some minor contact he acts like its the end of the world. The fact is he is still way immature for this league, Skiles figured this out and now Boylan is as well and by the looks at his minutes I am guessing Pax sees it as well because hes not sending a message to Boylan to play him. You will all refute this saying he does not get anytime to show what he has but if he is not getting any time that means he doesnt diserve it and is not working toward improving i practice.

[Cliff Levingston]

I just see Tyrus as a rare athlete that can get unbelievably high up in a very small area. Giving him a distinct advantage if we had the guards who could attack and make a defense adjust to the drives.

That's the key right now. Read Cliff Levingston's first post about how "our guards don't look for alley-oops." We don't have a single guard who effectively runs the pick and roll consistently either, but maybe that's due in part to running the pick and roll with Ben Wallace so much.

Anyway, he's got the tools to become a lethal high post player, so long as he can get his jump shot to a good level and his decision making improved.

- He has a lethal first step and elite quickness for the 4 position.
- He has good ball handling skills for the 4 position.
- He has the athleticism to get up and finish off a drive.
- He has the awareness to be able to make good passes.

All the above are just raw right now, but how does anyone expect him to improve in those areas without real game experience?

[JeremyB0001]

The most damning quote of that article is found in the next paragraph:

"Boylan's assessment of Aldridge?

'Aldridge may be the best running big man in the league,' he said. "He changes ends every single time and runs hard"

Basically that is a stab at Tyrus not changing ends, Boylan is much more subtle than Skiles but it shows you what he'd like Tyrus to be doing.

Or maybe Boylan just actually likes the way Aldridge changes ends.

Your point on Tyrus guarding shooters is decent but on both offense and defense he needs to crash the boards I see him standing out near the elbow too often when offensive rebounds come off.

He comes toward the basket usually. It's just that if he races in he'll draw over the back fouls. I think Chandler was the same way as he developed: at some point you realize that if you pursue every last rebound you'll get called for a ton of fouls trying to grab rebounds that you're out of position for.

I want Tyrus to pick up some minutes if Deng sits and I want Tyrus to produce and he needs to pick up his game to earn more minutes.

He needs actual opportunities, 12+ minutes of time and not three or four, to either produce or not produce.

This guy has the athleticism & body size of a 3 but can rebound & block shots like a 4, go figure? And he can't shoot or dominate inside, no post up game cause most power forwards are bigger & stronger. So he is basically just an athletic guy off the bench when he is on, he is exciting & full of energy: blocking shots and dunking & rebounding BUT he cant do it consistently because he is a tweener!!!!!

He's not the first 20 year old to enter the league in terms of some weight training. He's as big as plenty of (successful) fours and very few threes have his size, so no, he's not a tweener.

Thomas needs to be in the paint where he can rebound, block and dunk. He is an athletic player with barely any skills. If he works on what the coaches want him to work on he will be much better. I will take Boylan and Skiles assesment of Thomas over anyone in here anyday of the week. They see Thomas in practice every day and they know the game of basketball.

Then Boylan should play him in situations where he can play in the post and not on the perimeter. I don't think you read my original post.

We drafted TT to be a PF who is around the basket blocking shots and rebounding and getting some shots around the basket but yea i agree with Boylan that he is always on the perimeter.

I'm not sure you read the original post either. If Tyrus is guarding players who hang out at the perimeter or playing with another big on offense who's even less capable of hitting a jumper, how is he supposed to play inside all the time?

I am tired of you all defending TT.

Here you just take things way off topic. Do we really need yet another Tyrus is good/bad thread?

[Jello Biafra]

I don't understand the man crush everybody has for Tyrus.

[waffle]

I doubt this came out of left field... I kinda suspect that this is what they have told TT they want from him.. and then... there he is roaming around. Face it, this team NEEDS a baseline stopper.

[Red Larrivee]

We drafted TT to be a PF who is around the basket blocking shots and rebounding and getting some shots around the basket but yea i agree with Boylan that he is always on the perimeter. I am tired of you all defending TT. I love the kid but hes just not learning at a good pace, he has some good games but then goes back to his lazy self. If you noticed he is always the last one up the court, always when there is some minor contact he acts like its the end of the world. The fact is he is still way immature for this league, Skiles figured this out and now Boylan is as well and by the looks at his minutes I am guessing Pax sees it as well because hes not sending a message to Boylan to play him. You will all refute this saying he does not get anytime to show what he has but if he is not getting any time that means he doesnt diserve it and is not working toward improving i practice.

How dare you insult Tyrus Thomas, don't you realize he is our Franchise Player?

[kyrv]

We drafted TT to be a PF who is around the basket blocking shots and rebounding and getting some shots around the basket

Paxson never assigned Tyrus a position or gave any specifics to what his roles would be. I think this is what most of the board 'assumed' he would end up doing.

How dare you insult Tyrus Thomas, don't you realize he is our Franchise Player?

No, he has no star potential at all. Ben Gordon is the franchise player.

See what I did there?