Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

[theanimal23]

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=875977&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

From a poster,

Portland has been after Richard Jefferson for about a year now. Ramon Sessions is a guy the Blazers liked a lot before the draft and could be the "sweetener."

[Clint Eastwood]

:pray:
I won't believe a rumor until Tech N9ne posts something though.

fixed

[Ben]

I told mike at Daily Herald that the bulls should trade deng/hinrich for fernandez/webster/ and LaFrentz and see if you can get one of their many firsts. He said they will never give up Fernandez and I know Webster is hurt, but to pair him and Fernandez with Rose would really open up the floor. Webster can shoot/can post up and can defend; all for a solid salary.

I agree with Mike at the Daily Herald -- Blazers are not trading Fernandez -- not for a deal that brings them back Hinrich + Noc or Wallace + Felton or Richard Jefferson + whoever. The Bulls' fans really need to try and get that into their head. The Blazers LOVE Fernandez

I agree that they seem to love him, but if they wouldn't trade him for Richard Jefferson then they're no better than Pax in being overly attached to players who aren't worth it. Rudy is a neat player but has gotten way, way overly hyped. He's not the savior, and he's not even a starter on that Blazers' team-- nor will he be. RJeff, on the other hand, helps to take them to the next level.

To quote Velvet Jones,
"It's as simple as that."

[girlygirl]

Seriously guys, it's not Deng. We already know that management loves him, and he's finally playing well enough to justify the contract. They're not going to dump him for an expiring contract now of all times.

Yes, but we also know the management loves Hinrich and isn't likely to dump him for an expiring contract either. Hinrich + Nocioni for Outlaw + LaFrentz + (probably) Rodriguez does not improve the Bulls ON THE COURT -- just salary wise

That's one reason I think Charlotte is the team the Blazers are likely talking to. The Bobcats don't seem to care if they don't get great value for Wallace.

[girlygirl]

I told mike at Daily Herald that the bulls should trade deng/hinrich for fernandez/webster/ and LaFrentz and see if you can get one of their many firsts. He said they will never give up Fernandez and I know Webster is hurt, but to pair him and Fernandez with Rose would really open up the floor. Webster can shoot/can post up and can defend; all for a solid salary.

I agree with Mike at the Daily Herald -- Blazers are not trading Fernandez -- not for a deal that brings them back Hinrich + Noc or Wallace + Felton or Richard Jefferson + whoever. The Bulls' fans really need to try and get that into their head. The Blazers LOVE Fernandez

I agree that they seem to love him, but if they wouldn't trade him for Richard Jefferson then they're no better than Pax in being overly attached to players who aren't worth it. Rudy is a neat player but has gotten way, way overly hyped. He's not the savior, and he's not even a starter on that Blazers' team-- nor will he be. RJeff, on the other hand, helps to take them to the next level.

To quote Velvet Jones,
"It's as simple as that."

I'm not a big Richard Jefferson fan, so I don't know if he is the guy that would get the Blazers to the "true ctitle contender" level. He's not having a particularly good season in Milwaukee, and has always struck me as a Luol Deng type -- that is, a good complimentary guy -- a 3rd option type -- not a real star.

[theanimal23]

Seriously guys, it's not Deng. We already know that management loves him, and he's finally playing well enough to justify the contract. They're not going to dump him for an expiring contract now of all times.

Yes, but we also know the management loves Hinrich and isn't likely to dump him for an expiring contract either. Hinrich + Nocioni for Outlaw + LaFrentz + (probably) Rodriguez does not improve the Bulls ON THE COURT -- just salary wise

That's one reason I think Charlotte is the team the Blazers are likely talking to. The Bobcats don't seem to care if they don't get great value for Wallace.

It comes down to how much Pax believes this can be done:

This gives me hope (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=266283&src=150):

A lot of our guys fit teams that have an established star or two," Paxson said. "We'd obviously like to get another guy with Derrick where every night you can say to yourself, 'We've got these two guys we can go to all the time,' and fill around them."

If he thinks we have this guy on our roster or it can be found via the draft, we arent' doing anything. I hope he is intelligent enough to know we don't have the assets to land a fringe All-Star, let alone a bona fide star. Meaning the only other route is Free Agency, and that can be set up by dumping Noce and not resigning anyone the next two years, or doing a trade such as the one we are talking about here.

[jax98]

You also have to consider though that Hinrich has regressed, and that Deng is still rebuilding value, while playing well as of late.

Hinrich for LaFrentz/Bayless, sounds like a fair deal. Deng for Outlaw also depends, though it isn't the most preferable deal for our best trading piece. Deng is clearly the better player right now, but I wouldn't restrict Outlaw to a 6th man category. He's an explosive scorer and shooter, with a ton of athleticism and length. I wouldn't put it past Outlaw to be a pretty good SF with starter minutes.

You're missing my point Red.

My argument is that you basically go into this trade with a lot of 'if's' and optimism. There's a risk Bayless won't be starting material. There's the risk that Outlaw won't be good enough to be a full-time starter. So from a value stand-point, I think we're sort of overestimating how much value we get back in such a deal. The struggles of Luol has really hurt fans view of him. But looking at other boards, they're not half as harsh on Luol as we are.

A trade involving Deng & Hinrich will not fetch back borderline starters. Nor should it. This is a typical grass is greener situation, IMO.

[NZB2323]

How come none of the hypothetical deals have us taking Frye back?

In between Oden, Aldridge, and Pryzbilla they could afford to give us Frye, and while he hasn't been great in the NBA, the Bulls should always be looking for young big men that have potential.

[Leslie Forman]

Jefferson is D-U-N. Guy's nothing more than a 17/5 SF now. You give Rudy Fernandez a starting spot on the Bucks and he'll do that as soon as next season, for a tiny fraction of the price. I can't see Pritchard doing something so dumb.

I'd give up Deng and Hinrich if Rudy and Outlaw were coming the other way. With Raef, it also saves Jerry $1.6mil immediately in salary, which I'm sure will console him. If you let Gooden and Gordon go, you can throw a ton of money at either Boozer or Millsap (or one after the other, Miami style) next year. Then you let Larry expire and Tyrus loose in 2010, and you can throw money at another FA.

Basically, it would give this team not only a 2010 plan, but a 2009 one as well.

[nitetrain8603]

Early sources tell me it's actually for Bibby and Marvin Williams, but I'll see if I get in contact with anyone deeper in.

[Ralphb07]

The key is it says a team Portland have talked to in the past which we have. It's not Deng if it's us, it's Kirk and Noc and I would be happy with Bayless coming back. he's young and might pair up with Rose good. It also saves us a lot of money

[Clint Eastwood]

Jefferson is D-U-N. Guy's nothing more than a 17/5 SF now. You give Rudy Fernandez a starting spot on the Bucks and he'll do that as soon as next season, for a tiny fraction of the price. I can't see Pritchard doing something so dumb.

I'd give up Deng and Hinrich if Rudy and Outlaw were coming the other way. With Raef, it also saves Jerry $1.6mil immediately in salary, which I'm sure will console him. If you let Gooden and Gordon go, you can throw a ton of money at either Boozer or Millsap (or one after the other, Miami style) next year. Then you let Larry expire and Tyrus loose in 2010, and you can throw money at another FA.

Basically, it would give this team not only a 2010 plan, but a 2009 one as well.

thank you, you are correct. and im not sure why no one sees any value in outlaw. he is 24(deng is 23) and he isnt getting the same minutes as deng.
per 48min outlaw is 20.8pts, 7rb, 1.7 as, 1.1st, 1.3 blocks 41% three pointers
per 48 min deng is 20.1pt, 8.6rb, 2.7 as, 1.7st, .8 blocks not many three's

outlaw if given the chance can be a very good scorer who can hit tough shots. fernandez at least still has potential to be good. and contract wise, we improve and add 2 three point shooters into the rotation.

noah
TT
outlaw
fernandez
rose
---------
gooden
noc
thabo
better financial flexibility

i like it.

[Sonny_D1]

Early sources tell me it's actually for Bibby and Marvin Williams, but I'll see if I get in contact with anyone deeper in.

Yes, that would make sense as well. Atlanta has been reeling a bit lately (although Horford has been out) and I know I read somewhere that Marvin Williams is on the block. In fact I think it was posted in a thread today, I believe it was an ESPN article.

[Clint Eastwood]

by the way, who is this original source?

[Sonny_D1]

Yeah, here's the post from ESPN Ford:

Marvin Williams, Hawks
Williams starts at the 3 for the Hawks but can also play the 4 in a small-ball lineup. He is the guy the Hawks infamously took instead of Chris Paul in 2005.

While Williams has been solid, he hasn't been great. And the Hawks will have a tough decision to make with him hitting restricted free agency this summer. The team already is cash-strapped. Joe Johnson and Josh Smith have huge deals. Mike Bibby will also be a free agent. Ditto for Josh Childress. And sooner than later, they're going to have to pay Al Horford.

All of that has led to some rumblings around the league that Williams is available in return for a lottery pick and a little cap relief. My source in Atlanta denies it, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Chance of trade: 15 percent

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... igs-090129

[Toro Rojo]

Deng for Rudy Fernandez trade (as principals) should be label as the all-overrated trade of the season.
This being said, no GM would trade Rudy F for Deng and salaries makes it even worse. Again, Im talking about those two as the main parts of any deal between both teams.
I think Deng is the right SF for Portland, though.

[Jordan45822]

Atlanta must have a lot of faith in Acie Law. Marvin is replaceable.

[Leto]

I don't see us trading Deng unless Roy is coming back. Since that ain't happening, its got to be Nocioni--if its the Bulls at all. If it were, I'd suggest:

Hinrich, Nocioni and Simmons

for

LaFrentz, Pryzbilla and Sergio

The salaries almost match. I think we'd be taking on about 200,000 this year. We should still be under the tax, however.

[girlygirl]

Early sources tell me it's actually for Bibby and Marvin Williams, but I'll see if I get in contact with anyone deeper in.

Yes, that would make sense as well. Atlanta has been reeling a bit lately (although Horford has been out) and I know I read somewhere that Marvin Williams is on the block. In fact I think it was posted in a thread today, I believe it was an ESPN article.

I can definitely see this as a good possibility. The Blazers have been rumored to be interested in Bibby.

[MJ-23]

What works and could be possible...

Hinrich/Nocioni/Ruffin
for
Raef/Outlaw/Bayless

It'll be Nocioni not Deng as the SF being moved...

Bayless has more value than anyone on our team excluding Rose