Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

Sonny_D1 · Post #121 » by **Sonny_D1** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:06 am

Jordan45822 wrote:Atlanta must have a lot of faith in Acie Law. Marvin is replaceable.

Or Ben Gordon this summer :wink:

Maybe they get back Sergio or Bayless. In fact Bayless would be very similar to BG in terms of a combo guard that would fit in well with JJ.

Marvin and Bibby for Raef, Bayless and Outlaw works.

nitetrain8603 · Post #122 » by **nitetrain8603** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:07 am

Jordan45822 wrote:Atlanta must have a lot of faith in Acie Law. Marvin is replaceable.

Well the braintrust wants to give Joe Johnson total control of the team, and make it more clear that Horford is their go to guy downlow. They must think, upping their roles will help develop them further along faster. They also believe Bibby is not worth having at his contract as they believe they essentially have the same player in Acie Law, except Acie is faster and more athletic. They also want to move salary so they don't run into the tax and they also would be looking to pickup veteran help in the offseason.

theanimal23 · Post #123 » by **theanimal23** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:12 am

Any other info you could share (from your sources) nitetrain? Thanks.

Sonny_D1 · Post #124 » by **Sonny_D1** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:13 am

SOOOO, after giving it even more thought, it has to be Atlanta. As Tong said, Jefferson sucks balls and is under contract for 2 more years and $30mm!!! That's FUGLY. And Pritchard is supposed to be a smart guy.

Funny how I can't convince myself to think the Bulls would be involved.

MAQ · Post #125 » by **MAQ** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:15 am

how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

theanimal23 · Post #126 » by **theanimal23** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:17 am

maq25060 wrote:how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

Ditto with Bibby. And he won't even bet here long-term. Maybe Bibby helps them make the playoffs, but at his pay, I don't see them being much better with Bibby and Williams than Blake and Outlaw. At least add D to the PG spot if you're PTL.

Not really seeing the motive here.

Clint Eastwood · Post #127 » by **Clint Eastwood** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:17 am

MJ-23 wrote:
AirP. wrote:What works and could be possible...

Hinrich/Nocioni/Ruffin
for
Raef/Outlaw/Bayless

It'll be Nocioni not Deng as the SF being moved...

Bayless has more value than anyone on our team excluding Rose

he does?

MAQ · Post #128 » by **MAQ** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:19 am

theanimal23 wrote:
maq25060 wrote:how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

Ditto with Bibby. And he won't even bet here long-term. Maybe Bibby helps them make the playoffs, but at his pay, I don't see them being much better with Bibby and Williams than Blake and Outlaw. At least add D to the PG spot if you're PTL.

Not really seeing the motive here.

really...

and im not even saying our offer (noc hinrich) is so much better...it probably isnt honestly...but still

even a jefferson and sessions or ridnour deal is better b/c you have a nice backup for blake and jefferson as a 3rd option is MONEY

theanimal23 · Post #129 » by **theanimal23** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:21 am

I also think its way too early for Pritchard to make a deal. I don't think we will see anyone make a move till the last 24 hours

nitetrain8603 · Post #130 » by **nitetrain8603** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:23 am

maq25060 wrote:how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

Marvin as a prospect was supposed to be one of the great SF's of this league like around Carmelo, LeBron territory. In Atlanta, he wasn't going to get that chance as Horford, Smith, Johnson are their main weapons and Marvin whenever he was wide open under the basket. He could still develop into something special, but then again, Outlaw and Webster were two high schoolers with crazy potential as well. Webster had a super silky stroke, but was originally a SG. A lot of people though he would be a taller Ray Allen. With Bibby they feel like they get a veteran PG who's been there before and who is tested.

Sonny_D1 · Post #131 » by **Sonny_D1** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:23 am

maq25060 wrote:how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

Marvin is on my fantasy team, HELL YEAH he's better than Outlaw or Webster.

Seriously though, I've watched a ton of hawks games and he's really stepped up big time. He's finally putting his overall game together and he's extended his shot out to the 3 point line this year, something they've been pleasantly surprised with. He's also a very good rebounder for a SF. People also forget he's still only 22 years old. I can see him developing into a very, very solid NBA SF, not an all-star, but perhaps close.

He's definitely much better than those two.

And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that Pritchard would add a guy like Williams to that solid, young, up and coming core. Williams is a perfect fit for that team. You add him at age 22 to that core and Oden and LA develop, you really could be looking at a dynasty there.

Post #132 » by **Spykes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:38 am

maq25060 wrote:how does bibby and marvin make them contenders in the future?

is marvin really that much better of a prospect than outlaw or webster?

[/quote]

Bibby and Marvin definitely bolster up the Blazers and... While I'm not sure they make them contenders, they do make the Blazers stronger.

As for Bibby, Portland reportedly made an offer to the Hawks last summer for him but were turned down at the time. So there is interest there. Bibby works in Portland for the same reason Blake does. He can score off the ball, allowing Roy ample time to control the tempo of the game as a combo guard. So he's a good fit and by trading for him, it makes it easier for the Blazers to resign him in the summer as they can go over the cap to keep him.

Now, is Williams a better prospect than Webster or Outlaw? I'd probably have to say yes on both accounts. As far as Webster goes, we're still not really sure just what we have in him. Last season he showed some great growth, but still struggled mightily with being consistent night in and night out. Unfortunately he's battled the foot injury all season long, so we haven't seen him at all this year. As for Outlaw, you'll find varying views on him from Blazer fan to Blazer fan. I like the kid a lot as a player, but he really struggles in the starting SF spot. He plays his best at backup PF here in Portland, and after 2 seasons, I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon. Personally, I think he works out great at that spot. He creates a lot of matchup problems as our 6th man, so I really like what he brings. That said, I don't think we'll see him expand a whole lot more beyond that role here in Portland. Maybe he can expand his game on another team where he gets more touches in the starting unit, but that won't happen here in Portland. So in that regard, I think Williams would be a better prospect than Outlaw for the Blazers.

theanimal23 wrote:I also think its way too early for Pritchard to make a deal. I don't think we will see anyone make a move till the last 24 hours

I agree.

DanTown8587 · Post #133 » by **DanTown8587** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:46 am

If it was Williams/Bibby it would most likely be Outlaw/Webster/LaFrentz

DevilDetails · Post #134 » by **DevilDetails** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:50 am

To those doubting that Deng could be included in a LaFrenz/Outlaw/Rodriguez type salary dump, you have to remember that (1) you'd be dumping Hinrich, too, and he's definitely viewed as overpaid around the league, and (2) Deng is also overpaid for what he is (a 3rd option). The Bulls need to rebuild, and you can't do that with bloated contracts on the roster. Outlaw has a great contract with a team option. If you clear out Hinrich, Deng, and Hughes, you're going to have a ton of room to build your roster as you see fit.

Fans almost always underestimate the value of a salary dump to an owner/gm (especially with an insured contract like LaFrenz's).

nitetrain8603 · Post #135 » by **nitetrain8603** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:58 am

DevilDetails wrote:To those doubting that Deng could be included in a LaFrenz/Outlaw/Rodriguez type salary dump, you have to remember that (1) you'd be dumping Hinrich, too, and he's definitely viewed as overpaid around the league, and (2) Deng is also overpaid for what he is (a 3rd option). The Bulls need to rebuild, and you can't do that with bloated contracts on the roster. Outlaw has a great contract with a team option. If you clear out Hinrich, Deng, and Hughes, you're going to have a ton of room to build your roster as you see fit.

Fans almost always underestimate the value of a salary dump to an owner/gm (especially with an insured contract like LaFrenz's).

The thing is, the Blazers want to add someone in '09 as they know they won't have money to do so in '10 without a S&T. So Bibby expires at the end of this season I believe, they could add someone in the backcourt, a dynamic scorer who they could pair with Roy until Peteri Kopponen is ready full-time along with Jerryd Bayless, not worry about it since Bibby is off the books and they end up with a vastly improved high prospect in Marvin Williams.

The trade isn't with the Bulls people.

boogydown · Post #136 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:58 am

DevilDetails wrote:To those doubting that Deng could be included in a LaFrenz/Outlaw/Rodriguez type salary dump, you have to remember that (1) you'd be dumping Hinrich, too, and he's definitely viewed as overpaid around the league, and (2) Deng is also overpaid for what he is (a 3rd option). The Bulls need to rebuild, and you can't do that with bloated contracts on the roster. Outlaw has a great contract with a team option. If you clear out Hinrich, Deng, and Hughes, you're going to have a ton of room to build your roster as you see fit.

Fans almost always underestimate the value of a salary dump to an owner/gm (especially with an insured contract like LaFrenz's).

We could dump Hinrich without having to give up Deng.

Ralphb07 · Post #137 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:00 am

DevilDetails wrote:To those doubting that Deng could be included in a LaFrenz/Outlaw/Rodriguez type salary dump, you have to remember that (1) you'd be dumping Hinrich, too, and he's definitely viewed as overpaid around the league, and (2) Deng is also overpaid for what he is (a 3rd option). The Bulls need to rebuild, and you can't do that with bloated contracts on the roster. Outlaw has a great contract with a team option. If you clear out Hinrich, Deng, and Hughes, you're going to have a ton of room to build your roster as you see fit.

Fans almost always underestimate the value of a salary dump to an owner/gm (especially with an insured contract like LaFrenz's).

Kirk is only 27 and is a starting PG with a declining contract. Portland would plug Kirk in for 35mins a night. His contract won't be overpaid then.

Bottom line the Bulls WILL NOT include Deng just to dump Kirk salary.

Portland fans there has been reports since last summer that the Blazers offered or would offer Outlaw and raef for Kirk.

Also remember that Miles just totally F'd Portland and the only way for them to improve is via trade.

Post #138 » by **coldfish** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:00 am

DevilDetails wrote:To those doubting that Deng could be included in a LaFrenz/Outlaw/Rodriguez type salary dump, you have to remember that (1) you'd be dumping Hinrich, too, and he's definitely viewed as overpaid around the league, and (2) Deng is also overpaid for what he is (a 3rd option). The Bulls need to rebuild, and you can't do that with bloated contracts on the roster. Outlaw has a great contract with a team option. If you clear out Hinrich, Deng, and Hughes, you're going to have a ton of room to build your roster as you see fit.

Fans almost always underestimate the value of a salary dump to an owner/gm (especially with an insured contract like LaFrenz's).

The Bulls board has a number of connections. We have our issues and delusions, but the situation in Chicago is that Bulls management will not dump Deng. A lot of people here want him dumped and I could see people in Portland wanting the trade, but the concept is just wishful thinking.

Its

not

happening

treis · Post #139 » by **treis** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:01 am

I'll also add that Kirk isn't getting straight dumped.

boogydown · Post #140 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:03 am

Why would Atlanta do a deal sending Bibby and Williams to Portland for LaFrentz, Outlaw, Rodriguez. That is just stupid, they need a PG, and they get nothing in this deal that upgraded their current players.

That makes 0 sense to me unless they get Bayless, Joel or Rudy in the deal. I am 100% sure it's not with Atlanta.