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Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:37 pm
by Red Larrivee
Sonny_D1 wrote:No but Miller would certainly make them much better.
So let me get this straight, because some poster on the Blazers baord thinks Deng and Hinrich will make them contenders, you really believe that from what we've seen of those two?
They become contenders when Oden and LA finish developing.
Not necessarily, but I am going to assume that he meant the Point Guard
and the Small Forward make them a much better team. Not one or the other.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:37 pm
by Sonny_D1
Red Larrivee wrote:Chicago Trades
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Cedric Simmons
Portland Trades
Travis Outlaw
Jerryd Bayless
Raef Lafrentz
Blazers:
Hinrich/Blake/Sergio
Roy/Fernandez
Deng/Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla
Bulls:
Rose/Bayless
Gordon/Sefolosha
Outlaw/Nocioni
Gooden/Thomas
Noah/Gray
What the hell do you want to do with another 6'3" combo guard that isn't a very good defender?
Rose/BG/Bayless backcourt. Good God that would be awful defensively, quite possibly the worst in the NBA.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:37 pm
by Magilla_Gorilla
BlazersRizing wrote:AirP. wrote:What works and could be possible...
Hinrich/Nocioni/Ruffin
for
Raef/Outlaw/Bayless
It'll be Nocioni not Deng as the SF being moved...
lmao!! @ that trade. you think Hinrich and Nocioni is worth all that? wake up
CRAZY HUH! LMAO.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:39 pm
by theanimal23
I don't see Deng being dealt, and his recent play has instilled some optimism in me re: Lu. That said, the two guys I want to give up first are Hinrich and Nocioni. But if we dealt Deng with Hinrich, I would want back Rudy no doubt.
I wonder how high Portland is on Rudy. Given past success of Noce and Hinrich, you would think based on their *history* they could land Fernandez. If we can turn them into Raef, Blake, and either Fernandez or Outlaw, I'd be a real happy camper.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:41 pm
by Red Larrivee
Sonny_D1 wrote:What the hell do you want to do with another 6'3" combo guard that isn't a very good defender?
Rose/BG/Bayless backcourt. Good God that would be awful defensively, quite possibly the worst in the NBA.
I'm just thinking realistically of what they'd give up.
Travis Outlaw: He's been getting shopped for a good while now, Rudy Fernandez is clearly his replacement.
Jerryd Bayless: He just started playing minutes, but Blake/Roy/Fernandez/Sergio have enjoyed most of the minutes this season in the backcourt.
Raef LaFrentz: The glorious expiring contract.
Maybe a draft pick would come into play as well. I don't think Fernandez is untouchable, but I don't think Portland has him at the top of their list of trade-a-blazers.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:42 pm
by theanimal23
Milwaukee: Jefferson and Sessions/Ridnour is another possibility. But given their reputation and history, I would say Wallace/Felton (both rumored available) would be the front-runner to Portland. We are a candidate, but it honestly comes down to how much Paxson values Hinrich.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:42 pm
by kulaz3000
Sonny_D1 wrote:Red Larrivee wrote:Willie Green makes them a contender?
No but Miller would certainly make them much better.
So let me get this straight, because some poster on the Blazers baord thinks Deng and Hinrich will make them contenders, you really believe that from what we've seen of those two?
They become contenders when Oden and LA finish developing.
You think Miller would make them contenders, but not Deng and Hinrich? Is that what you're saying?
I proposed on the Blazers board the following:
Deng + Kirk + Noce for LaFrentz + Rudy + Outlaw + Blake
Oden/Priyz
Aldridge/Noce
Deng/Noce/Batum
Roy/Kirk/Bayless
Kirk/Bayless/Sergio
That wouldn't make them a Championship team yet, but you wait for Oden and Aldridge to continue to develop, that is an awesome team that is still young enough to grow together. They would also be able to play small and large whenever they feel like, and with Noce and Kirk, they add 2 extra 3 point shooters.
For us, it's a lot less appealing, but the point is that we'd get rid of Deng, Kirk and Noce's contract. And the hopes that Rudy develops next to Rose.
Rose/Blake
Gordon/Rudy
Outlaw/Thabo
Tyrus/Outlaw
Noah/Gray
Isn't a sexy line-up that's for sure, but how much worse are we than we are now? I would say not all that much. We give one more year next season to give ample time for Tyrus and Noah, and allow Rudy and Rose to form chemistry together. In this instance, Gordon may also be willing to re-sign with the Bulls, as Rudy is likely to take some time to develop, and if not, we could sign and trade Gordon for a veteran big man to get some depth upfront.
In 2010 it could look like:
Rose/Blake
Rudy/Thabo/(draft pick/free agent)
Outlaw/Thabo/(draft pick/free agent)
Bosh/Tyrus(draft pick/free agent)
Noah/Gray/(sign and trade with Gordon)
That is a long, athletic team. We'd need to get some veterans in that can shoot the three, but it's still an appealing team to look towards to future with.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:43 pm
by Sonny_D1
Red Larrivee wrote:Sonny_D1 wrote:No but Miller would certainly make them much better.
So let me get this straight, because some poster on the Blazers baord thinks Deng and Hinrich will make them contenders, you really believe that from what we've seen of those two?
They become contenders when Oden and LA finish developing.
Not necessarily, but I am going to assume that he meant the Point Guard
and the Small Forward make them a much better team. Not one or the other.
Why couldn't it mean 1 starter with the other (sf) coming off the bench perhaps? Or maybe Philly, desperate for outside shooting, is willing to let go of Thaddeus Young along with Miller to get back Rudy and perhaps Sergio or Bayless?
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:44 pm
by theanimal23
Has there been any indication that Portland has talked to Milwaukee or Charlotte in the past? If we go by T9's info and the past "Portland has liked Hinrich", it gives us an edge if we can't verify that they have talked to Cha/Mil recently.
Although the chance of this happening is extremely small, but if we can turn Noce and Hinrich into Fernandez and Lafrentz, I have no qualms losing Gordon in Free Agency. Yes I'd like him to stay, but if he decided to leave at a price we didn't like, I'm fine with that. This gives us ultimate cap flexibilty, and if we play it right, the opportunity to go after two potential FAs in two years.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:47 pm
by Grand Champ
Blake > Hinrich
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:49 pm
by Sonny_D1
kulaz3000 wrote:You think Miller would make them contenders, but not Deng and Hinrich? Is that what you're saying?
Do people read anymore before commenting? No, that's not what I'm saying.
What I said is just because a poster on another board thinks this trade will make them contenders doesn't mean it will make them contenders. I don't think Miller will make them contenders just as I don't believe Deng and Hinrich won't. I said they'll be contenders once/if both Oden and LA finish developing. Then I said Miller would make them much better, as would Deng and Kirk. But neither trade will make them contenders.
That's what I said.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:49 pm
by JimmyBulls
It's not us, Maxi Pax would cut off his nuts before trading Hinrich.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:49 pm
by Red Larrivee
Sonny_D1 wrote:Why couldn't it mean 1 starter with the other (sf) coming off the bench perhaps?
Because it said a PG
and SF that could push the Blazers to contention. Whatever the Blazers do with their rotation is on them, but I'm going to assume it's 2 starters, which would allow them to move Blake and Batum to the bench.
Or maybe Philly, desperate for outside shooting, is willing to let go of Thaddeus Young along with Miller to get back Rudy and perhaps Sergio or Bayless?
Possibly, but has there ever been an indication that Philly and Portland have had conversations in the past?
Chicago makes the most logical sense from all of this:
Pritchard is ga-ga over Deng.
Portland has long had interest in Hinrich.
Portland and Chicago had talks earlier this season according to T-9 and other rumors.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:50 pm
by kyrv
If Noc just played SF, just guarded his guy, mostly shot open three's, I think he would be a nice addition to that team. Offensively, he's actually a better fit than Deng (not defensively of course).
Kirk I think would be a great fit there.
I would prefer Bayless or Sergio to Outlaw - isn't Outlaw a combo forward, mostly SF? We have Deng...if Deng were traded getting Outlaw back and Bayless or Sergio works for me.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:50 pm
by AirP.
Grand.Champ wrote:Blake > Hinrich
Really, Blake is anywhere close to Hinrich in defense? Offensively maybe a wash, defensively not even close.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:50 pm
by kulaz3000
Grand.Champ wrote:Blake > Hinrich
As a point guard I agree. But as an overall player, I'd give Hinrich the edge, because Hinrich is versatile enough to play both position, and can defend both positions on the other end as well.
But in comparison on whether who is the better point guard, Blake definitely has the edge.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:53 pm
by AirP.
kyrv wrote:If Noc just played SF, just guarded his guy, mostly shot open three's, I think he would be a nice addition to that team. Offensively, he's actually a better fit than Deng (not defensively of course).
Kirk I think would be a great fit there.
I would prefer Bayless or Sergio to Outlaw - isn't Outlaw a combo forward, mostly SF? We have Deng...if Deng were traded getting Outlaw back and Bayless or Sergio works for me.
Exactly... if Nocioni just played SF... but for Chicago he's playing out of position at PF. If you want a 1 on 1 defender to piss off the other team's SF, he's the man for the job and he can stretch the defense with his long range shooting. Chicago's problem.. they just signed Deng long term and it doesn't make sense to have 2 sizable contracts at SF... unless for us one could play some SG which neither really can't.
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:54 pm
by The ROY
Sounds like Gerald Wallace and Raymond Felton....
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:54 pm
by treis
Grand.Champ wrote:Blake > Hinrich
Bird brain>your brain
Re: Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:56 pm
by theanimal23
As much crap I have given to Deng, I'm not sure if I trade him just like that. I'm not sure, it really depends on the specifics on the deal. I don't see him being dealt this quickly. Paxson has shown to trade people ASAP (Wallace and Chandler) but those guys either were cancers or produced at a scrub-level. No matter how bad Deng has done, Pax has shown enough patience with Kirk and Noce to indicate Deng won't be dealt in a deal that does not bring us a quality big man (and Aldridge isn't being dealt).
I'm thinking its Hinrich, Nocioni (= 18 million) for a combination of LaFrentz, Blake (=16-17 million) for Fernandez, or Outlaw.
Fernandez being dealt comes down to one thing: How much does Portland value the new players coming in? If they think it puts them in championship contention, they will add him. If they are high on these guys, but not Mary Jane high, they will keep him.