Luol Deng ready to defy trainer by fulfilling national duty

[Rerisen]

I don't even understand the allegiance to GB....hes hopped around the world his whole life.

Because its something that is important and meaningful to him. If you think about his life, I don't find it far fetched at all.

[JOHN]

After seeing Deng and Salmons play for this team, it's clear to me that if Deng has a future here, it's as the backup 3/4 playing 30-35 minutes a night.

You see ..that's the problem.We cant be paying a scrub like Deng so much money.Of course this is Reinsdorfs mess.They got fooled by a scarycat like Deng.

[The Evidence]

I don't even understand the allegiance to GB....hes hopped around the world his whole life.

America has been better to him than GB has, in the sense that he wouldn't be making $72 M a year in GB.

Just knock it off Luol.

GB is where his family finally settled after being ousted from the Sudan. I can certainly understand his loyalty.

If his loyalty is to GB over the Chicago Bulls, perhaps he should void his $72 M contract.

[DuckIII]

Right, the chances that Deng is a child molester are about equal to those of a guy who simply got a fat contract and now isn't as hungry as he once might have been. Because the latter has never happened in the history of the NBA.

My point is simply that there is no evidence that the latter applies to Luol Deng.

For not being interested, you sure like to argue speculation.

There is a difference between arguing speculation, and arguing against it.

I remember speculating on Ben Wallace being a cancer and loafer, not least from watching his sorry butt play every night, and I remember some at the time being offended by those suggestions because 'how could we possibly know' any of that stuff not being in the locker room. Hmm well, a year later he is traded off the team and we find out hey, there was fire behind all that smoke.

And yet, interestingly enough (and believe me, I mean interesting as in surprising), there actually was not any fire behind that smoke. The after-the-fact reports that came out this year were that Ben was liked and respected by his teammates and was not a cancer. Indeed, Doug has commented on this several times throughout the season when people have referred to Wallace as a cancer.

[DuckIII]

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm surprised people give a rats ass about this. Why do we care so much that our at-best 5th best player this year (after BG, Rose, Salmons, Kirk, etc) wants to play for his non-county, non-basketball team.

Because when he's good he's not the 5th best player and the team has committed a substantial contract to him, so its in our best interests as fans that he be healthy and good, whether it be to trade him or play him?

I actually admire his devotion and desire to "repay" Britain with his skills, but didn't he only live in Britain for 5 years?

It seems odd that he's so commited to the country.

Um, its the country that he's a citizen of. Some people are patriotic. This tends to be especially true when said country offers your entire family asylum and a way of life following a fearful escape from political turmoil in a historically violent nation that could have potentially led to your entire family be slaughtered.

I'm very anti-nationalistic so I could care less about the olympics or who plays in them.

Oh, so you aren't Luol Deng. Gotcha.

I certainly think if there's a moral obligation issue here it is that Deng sucks, is always injured, and should sit it out in good faith to the people (the Bulls), and not the faceless country, that has ensured that he and all of his decendants will never have to work a day in their lives after he's done playing ball.

Oddly, it may be Deng who thinks that he's the one who has ensured his own future through the convergence of hard work and talent.

Further, he will probably have a yeast infection during the Euro tournament andd not be able to play anyway so this is a non-issue.

Oh, I didn't realize that you are one of the people that I shouldn't read or respond to. I wish you'd started your post with that. I could have saved myself 3 minutes.

[TheStig]

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm surprised people give a rats ass about this. Why do we care so much that our at-best 5th best player this year (after BG, Rose, Salmons, Kirk, etc) wants to play for his non-county, non-basketball team. I actually admire his devotion and desire to "repay" Britain with his skills, but didn't he only live in Britain for 5 years?

It seems odd that he's so commited to the country. I'm very anti-nationalistic so I could care less about the olympics or who plays in them. I certainly think if there's a moral obligation issue here it is that Deng sucks, is always injured, and should sit it out in good faith to the people (the Bulls), and not the faceless country, that has ensured that he and all of his decendants will never have to work a day in their lives after he's done playing ball.

I think te maturity issue is a reasonable thing to bring up with Deng. He disappears when games get tough (4th quarter), he was admittedly intimidated by the trade/contract issues he faced, and he now is opening his mouth like a boy without thinking of the big picture.

After seeing Deng and Salmons play for this team, it's clear to me that if Deng has a future here, it's as the backup 3/4 playing 30-35 minutes a night. I just don't really care about him anymore. It's fine if he plays for GB, but it shows where his heart and mind are (not with the Bulls). Further, he will probably have a yeast infection during the Euro tournament andd not be able to play anyway so this is a non-issue.

We care because he showed a lot of promise and ability when he was healthy. Since playing with the GB team he hasn't been able to keep healthy and we paid him to be our second best player and need him to show up if we are going to be a good team. The skills and foundation to be a very solid sf in this league were there and have disappeared since his commitments and priorities changed. Loul had a strong commitment to training and getting stronger in the offseason, now he doesn't have enough time to do both and rest.

[The Evidence]

Because its something that is important and meaningful to him. If you think about his life, I don't find it far fetched at all.

People also forget that Deng has used his turbulent life as a marketing/negotiating tool into getting his contract.

I'm fine with him trying to help his native Sudan, which is actually a worthy cause. Whatever he does to help his native country is perfectly fine by me.

Helping GB is a waste of a cause, and GB isn't his native country. They're an economically and politically developed country that needs no help. Focusing on furthering the cause of basketball in GB takes a backseat to $72 M, especially for a guy with an injury history that doesn't let his body heal in the offseason. I really don't see a ton of difference between the situation and the Monta Ellis or Jay Williams situations.

[TB#1]

I don't know what Deng's contract says about his playing or not playing in international competition. I don't think love of the game clauses are common anymore. Its possible the Bulls could nix Deng's play as an unreasonable health risk, the same as they can ban players from riding motorcycles, etc.

[musiqsoulchild]

People also forget that Deng has used his turbulent life as a marketing/negotiating tool into getting his contract.

WTF????

[Rerisen]

People also forget that Deng has used his turbulent life as a marketing/negotiating tool into getting his contract.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. But if Jerry Reinsdorf puts any other priorities beside what a player brings to the Bulls winning basketball games into what he offers a player, I think he's a fool. The Bulls always had a hang-up for 'good citizens first' or presenting a certain image, and of course you don't want guys that are criminal types or who do stupid things, but there comes a certain line or standard that once a player measures up to, beyond that point it just doesn't matter. How nice a guy is, or how good of a humanitarian he is really shouldn't factor into it I don't think. If JR approves of what Deng is doing in other parts of his life, that is not something to be figured into a NBA contract, the chairman has more than enough money to simply make his own charitable contributions to whatever he thinks is important outside of basketball.

[TB#1]

I don't know what Deng's contract says about his playing or not playing in international competition. I don't think love of the game clauses are common anymore. Its possible the Bulls could nix Deng's play as an unreasonable health risk, the same as they can ban players from riding motorcycles, etc.

Here is the Uniform NBA Contract (from the forum rules and useful links sticky at the top of the Bulls page)

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_exhibits/exhibitA.php


Here are a couple of significant portions:

5.CONDUCT.
(a) The Player agrees to observe and comply with all Team rules, as maintained or promulgated in accordance with the CBA, at all times whether on or off the playing floor. Subject to the provisions of the CBA, such rules shall be part of this Contract as fully as if herein written and shall be binding upon the Player.

(b) The Player agrees: (i) to give his best services, as well as his loyalty, to the Team, and to play basketball only for the Team and its assignees; (ii) to be neatly and fully attired in public; (iii) to conduct himself on and off the court according to the highest standards of honesty, citizenship, and sportsmanship; and (iv) not to do anything that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of the Team or the League.

12.OTHER ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES.
The Player and the Team acknowledge and agree that the Player's participation in certain other activities may impair or destroy his ability and skill as a basketball player, and the Player's participation in any game or exhibition of basketball other than at the request of the Team may result in injury to him. Accordingly, the Player agrees that he will not, without the written consent of the Team, engage in any activity that a reasonable person would recognize as involving or exposing the participant to a substantial risk of bodily injury including, but not limited to: (i) sky-diving, hang gliding, snow skiing, rock or mountain climbing (as distinguished from hiking), rappelling, and bungee jumping; (ii) any fighting, boxing, or wrestling; (iii) driving or riding on a motorcycle or moped; (iv) riding in or on any motorized vehicle in any kind of race or racing contest; (v) operating an aircraft of any kind; (vi) engaging in any other activity excluded or prohibited by or under any insurance policy which the Team procures against the injury, illness or disability to or of the Player, or death of the Player, for which the Player has received written notice from the Team prior to the execution of this Contract; or (vii) participating in any game or exhibition of basketball, football, baseball, hockey, lacrosse, or other team sport or competition. If the Player violates this Paragraph 12, he shall be subject to discipline imposed by the Team and/or the Commissioner of the NBA. Nothing contained herein shall be intended to require the Player to obtain the written consent of the Team in order to enable the Player to participate in, as an amateur, the sports of golf, tennis, handball, swimming, hiking, softball, volleyball, and other similar sports that a reasonable person would not recognize as involving or exposing the participant to a substantial risk of bodily injury.

[DuckIII]

Given what we know about players who play international ball, TB, and the teams that have explored preventing them from doing so, I think its pretty safe to assume that most players have exceptions written into their contracts that would allow them to play for their national team. The "form" contract likely means very little.

[Rerisen]

And yet, interestingly enough (and believe me, I mean interesting as in surprising), there actually was not any fire behind that smoke. The after-the-fact reports that came out this year were that Ben was liked and respected by his teammates and was not a cancer. Indeed, Doug has commented on this several times throughout the season when people have referred to Wallace as a cancer.

It's not about liking him as a teammate. Its about the player/coach relationships and respect on the team and how they became corroded.

No, Doug reported on his podcast that Wallace was insubordinate and refused to practice, and pretty much did whatever the hell he wanted. And that Skiles relegated Pete Myers to wrangle Wallace into action because he was too afraid to to it himself. Which didn't work BTW, Wallace just walked away into the locker room IIRC Doug's recounting. Meanwhile, this young team was just coming off years of tough guy Skiles keeping them on a tight leash and when they saw Ben so flippantly defy Skiles - and get away it, I would bet a big chunk of 'losing the team' went right there. Likely the same with Skiles feeling he could no longer coach this team. Because it was no longer being run in a way that his style of coaching demanded. There was another act involving Wallace at a team meeting that Doug mentioned in the same show, which I don't recall the exact specifics (perhaps Doug can recall it) that shone very badly on the situation with Big Ben on the team.

The guy was not traded away simply because he was declining in production. Paxson knew what the score was with this guy and knew he had to go.

[DuckIII]

And yet, interestingly enough (and believe me, I mean interesting as in surprising), there actually was not any fire behind that smoke. The after-the-fact reports that came out this year were that Ben was liked and respected by his teammates and was not a cancer. Indeed, Doug has commented on this several times throughout the season when people have referred to Wallace as a cancer.

It's not about liking him as a teammate. Its about the player/coach relationships and respect on the team and how they became corroded.

No, Doug reported on his podcast that Wallace was insubordinate and refused to practice, and pretty much did whatever the hell he wanted. And that Skiles relegated Pete Myers to wrangle Wallace into action because he was too afraid to to it himself. Meanwhile, this young team was just coming off years of tough guy Skiles keeping them on a tight leash and when they saw Ben so flippantly defy Skiles - and get away it, I would bet a big chunk of 'losing the team' went right there. Likely the same with Skiles feeling he could no longer coach this team. Because it was no longer being run in a way that his style of coaching demanded. There was another act involving Wallace at a team meeting that Doug mentioned in the same show, which I don't recall the exact specifics (perhaps Doug can recall it) that shone very badly on the situation with Big Ben on the team.

The guy was not traded away simply because he was declining in production. Paxson knew what the score was with this guy and knew he had to go.

I must not be remembering it correctly. I'll take your word for it since, at the very least, we have headband-gate to evidence Wallace's open rebellion.

[#1TKfan]

there goes pax's "character guy".
honestly if he is banged up enough to prevent him from playing, he should rest for next season.
i understand he wants to represent, but you have to be smart about this. does he have more passion for GB?

[TB#1]

Given what we know about players who play international ball, TB, and the teams that have explored preventing them from doing so, I think its pretty safe to assume that most players have exceptions written into their contracts that would allow them to play for their national team. The "form" contract likely means very little.

You may be right, of course. None of us know exactly what it in Deng's contract. If he doesn't have an exemption to play for England, I can see where the Bulls may NOT have enforced their rights to not let him play last year but I would hope they'd put the kibash on it this year. The loyalty and good of the team clause is likely in there and if his playing this summer is demonstrably likely to increase the chance that he won't be able to come into next season in good physical condition, they may be able to keep him home under that provision.

If there is a chance to force him to pass on playing for team England I sure as heck hope the legal brain trust for the Bulls presses it hard.

[kyrv]

TB for the win.


I think right now there is pressure on the teams to let the players play, but as I mentioned I've heard numerous reports that teams like the Spurs are not happy about injured players playing, or players playing internationally and becoming injured.

[DuckIII]

If there is a chance to force him to pass on playing for team England I sure as heck hope the legal brain trust for the Bulls presses it hard.

Me too. Especially since they've got him wrapped into a long term contract. If they've got the legal right to forbid it, they should enforce it.

Merely due to player contentment issues, I'd probably take a different position if this were the Olympics since securing a place in the Olympics for GB was Deng's primary goal. But its not the Olympics and, from what Sham said, doesn't impact GB's status in that regard.

[bullzman23]

We all have opinions and assumptions about this, but it's really hard to have a good debate about this because so much of it has to do with intentions. What are Luol Deng's intentions? Does he care about the Bulls? Did he really try to play through pain, or did he exaggerate the pain? We don't know, and we won't know.

So let's take intentions out of the debate. Let's just talk about results. So far Luol Deng hasn't helped this franchise much the previous two seasons. This season he's been a total non-factor, spare a week or two of good ball, and isn't dependable to produce in most games that he's actually able to play in. This isn't good for the Chicago Bulls. We need players that can actually help us on the court. Luol Deng isn't that player if he remains injury prone.

Unless something changes during the final weeks of the season/postseason, the writing is on the wall for what we need to do with Deng.

[Rerisen]

With more and more international players coming over every year, you figure this issue is going to have to come to a head in some way eventually. Either a major player will get hurt, which severely derails an NBA team's future and impacts their financial situation, or a player will be forbidden to play and cause a stir. Something is going to break with this type of situation.