Luol Deng ready to defy trainer by fulfilling national duty

[BR0D1E86]

If his loyalty is to GB over the Chicago Bulls, perhaps he should void his $72 M contract.

Can’t, and the article doesn’t say that his loyalty is to GB "over" the Chicago Bulls.

Regardless, I think the thread went all the way to page 10 without a pointless reference to Deng being a pussy, so well done everyone. Well, almost everyone.

[Rerisen]

So let's take intentions out of the debate. Let's just talk about results.

We know where the results stand. Not good right now. And not promising for a comeback year for Luol if he plays again next offseason. Especially if we are to believe that Loul's previous injuries have been so lingering and severe as to keep affecting him past his return points, for weeks and months ongoing into games he is playing in.

But its hard to ignore the things you say we should ignore, when the suggestion is that Deng might be willing to play through pain or risk further injury for Great Britain. At least if the trainers and medical people are telling him it would be unwise to play. Then he is indeed defying his team and risking his own future, or else the team's doctors (and people like Thorpe) are lying and Deng will keep getting second opinions until he gets one that says he is clear to play.

[The Evidence]

People also forget that Deng has used his turbulent life as a marketing/negotiating tool into getting his contract.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. But if Jerry Reinsdorf puts any other priorities beside what a player brings to the Bulls winning basketball games into what he offers a player, I think he's a fool. The Bulls always had a hang-up for 'good citizens first' or presenting a certain image, and of course you don't want guys that are criminal types or who do stupid things, but there comes a certain line or standard that once a player measures up to, beyond that point it just doesn't matter. How nice a guy is, or how good of a humanitarian he is really shouldn't factor into it I don't think. If JR approves of what Deng is doing in other parts of his life, that is not something to be figured into a NBA contract, the chairman has more than enough money to simply make his own charitable contributions to whatever he thinks is important outside of basketball.

I was referring to the report last summer where Deng argued that inking him to a lucrative contract would be good for charity.

I have no problem with anyone donating large sums of money to charity, but I was iirked when he tried to leverage his charitable works during contract negotiations. Desperate move IMO.

[BR0D1E86]

Helping GB is a waste of a cause, and GB isn't his native country.

Correct, they are the country that granted his family asylum when they escaped from a civil war-ravaged country where, had they stayed, his family would likely have all been slaughtered. I simply can’t imagine why he feels any loyalty to GB. It’s simply shocking.

They're an economically and politically developed country that needs no help.

Since he’s trying to further basketball there and not end poverty, it really does need help. As a basketball player, basketball is likely something that is somewhat important to Deng. As a British citizen, Britain is likely something that is somewhat important to Deng. You marry those two, there you go.

I really don't see a ton of difference between the situation and the Monta Ellis or Jay Williams situations.

They’re precisely the same, except that two guys significantly damaged or ended their careers by violating specific clauses in their contract and one guy is doing nothing whatsoever that violates his contract and is participating in offseason basketball with the team’s blessing. Other than that they’re all identical situations.

I don’t want him to play this summer either, since it seems to negatively affect his NBA play and that’s what I’m concerned about. But I can certainly understand why he wants to play for GB and as long as he’s got the insurance to cover his back I don’t really see the issue.

[transplant]

As i said several times here, I thought Bulls management treated Deng very poorly in their public handling of his recent stress fracture problem. I'm not saying this has anything to do with his interest in playing for GB this summer, but I don't blame him at all for doing whatever he feeels is best so long as it doesn't clearly violate his contract.

[bullzman23]

So let's take intentions out of the debate. Let's just talk about results.

We know where the results stand. Not good right now. And not promising for a comeback year for Luol if he plays again next offseason.

That's kind of my point. In the past we'd hear all this hogwash about Gordon being selfish and egotistical, and then we'd see fans run with it and talk about how it was ruining the team. It clearly didn't have much legs. Now Deng is being accused of a lot of things. He's been accused of being soft, not caring about the Bulls, and being jealous of Rose. All these things could be true, but just dismiss it for a second. It doesn't really matter who he is in reality, as long as he's helping us win. He isn't helping us win. That's enough reason to trade him, IMO.

[DuckIII]

With more and more international players coming over every year, you figure this issue is going to have to come to a head in some way eventually. Either a major player will get hurt, which severely derails an NBA team's future and impacts their financial situation, or a player will be forbidden to play and cause a stir. Something is going to break with this type of situation.

Didn't Gasol get an injury in international play a few years ago that cost him almost half of his season with Memphis?

[DanTown8587]

With more and more international players coming over every year, you figure this issue is going to have to come to a head in some way eventually. Either a major player will get hurt, which severely derails an NBA team's future and impacts their financial situation, or a player will be forbidden to play and cause a stir. Something is going to break with this type of situation.

Didn't Gasol get an injury in international play a few years ago that cost him almost half of his season with Memphis?

Yes. Gasol, while with Memphis, had surgery on a foot he broke in September of 2006. He played in only 59 games that year and Memphis won 49 games the year before with Gasol and then when they got Rudy Gay and fell flat, winning only 22 games and finishing last in the West.

http://www.nba.com/news/wcob_gasol_injury_060902.html

[Rerisen]

Didn't Gasol get an injury in international play a few years ago that cost him almost half of his season with Memphis?

He was definitely injured in the World's Championship, I'm not sure how many games he missed for Memphis, looks like only 22 or so if I'm looking at the right season.

And the next season was his last in Memphis! Though the ever popular "hemorrhaging money" was the stated cause for that.

[DanTown8587]

To add to what Duck is saying, Gasol in 06 and Ginobli last year at the Olympics are the only players of note who I believe injured themselves playing international basketball and missed time in the NBA because of it.

[The Evidence]

Tired arguments for Luol Deng

I understand all of the stated reasons as to why he thinks playing for GB is a worthy cause. I still think they are foolish, considering:

1. He's injury prone; therefore should be spending his summers recuperating, instead of running full steam with a team of scrubs in hopes of winning an Olympic medal. Willingly participating in summer events when you know you're injury prone is negligence bordering on the same type of negligence that Monta and Jay displayed.

2. British basketball doesn't register an iota of care in the world or in England. They already have soccer and cricket. They are not going to adopt basketball.

3. British basketball ranks far behind his obligations to a $72 M contract and his native war-torn Sudan. If you think it doesn't, then I'm happy for you.

[Rerisen]

Mark Cuban of course, created a big stink about NBA players in the Olympics a few years back. And his thoughts haven't changed.

"It's not that I don't like the idea of them representing their countries," Cuban said by e-mail. "If the Olympics were truly a nationalistic endeavor built on sport and part of the public domain, I would be willing to take risk and support their playing. What I don't like is that we lie to ourselves and pretend that the Olympians represent our country.

"They don't. They have taken relatively low paying jobs working for the Olympics, who in turn sell the broadcast and marketing rights for billions of dollars in profits, all the while creating enormous risk for those of us who pay them for their day jobs that support their families. It's amazing how players who are free agents won't participate, but those with guaranteed contracts will.

"I hate the fact that we lie to ourselves and pretend this is about representing country," Cuban said. "It's not. It's about money."

...
Cleveland is one team that took a stand. The Cavaliers refused to allow Zydrunas Ilgauskas to play for Lithuania because of a compressed disk in his lower back and a history of foot injuries. Cleveland has leverage most teams don't because the center's contract is not fully insured.
...
"I understand completely, I just disagree," Cuban said. "As I mentioned, to me, the disturbing part is not just the financial risk we incur, with minimal upside, it's the hypocrisy of it all.

"Can't we just call it the GE Olympic Team?"

Does the bolded sound like a couple of Bulls players? Currently Ben Gordon and previously Deng, when he gave his deadline for a deal? Story Link.

[DuckIII]

Didn't Gasol get an injury in international play a few years ago that cost him almost half of his season with Memphis?

He was definitely injured in the World's Championship, I'm not sure how many games he missed for Memphis, looks like only 22 or so if I'm looking at the right season.

And the next season was his last in Memphis! Though the ever popular "hemorrhaging money" was the stated cause for that.

To make my post clear, I agree with you that something will happen that will cause this issue "to break" as you put it. I was just saying that the major injury to a major player has already happened and it didn't really make an impact in the big picture. Frankly, I bet it takes an injury to an American player playing for Team USA.

[DuckIII]

Cuban is a jack-ass on this issue. Because he's stating an opinion based on finances, he wants to paint the entire issue from all sides as purely financial so as to make it appear that he's on equal footing with everyone else. Its transparently a load of crap.

I suspect a lot of these guys do it for the thrill of representing their home nation in Olympic competition. Just because money is an element of it doesn't mean it isn't ultimately about patriotism and pride. I'm sure I'm not the only kid who grew up playing sports who dreamed about how cool it would be to represent my country in the Olympics. Had I ever been afforded the opportunity, it would have been an honor I would have cherished for my entire life.

[Rerisen]

I suspect a lot of these guys do it for the thrill of representing their home nation in Olympic competition. Just because money is an element of it doesn't mean it isn't ultimately about patriotism and pride. I'm sure I'm not the only kid who grew up playing sports who dreamed about how cool it would be to represent my country in the Olympics. Had I ever been afforded the opportunity, it would have been an honor I would have cherished for my entire life.

He's definitely spinning it, he is the owner of the Mavs after all, heh.

But I think the one point he makes is that NBA players won't risk playing for 'national pride and patriotism' if they are not locked into a juicy contract. They won't risk themselves to play then, but they will risk their team's future once they lockdown that contract. Not saying there isn't a distinction there between looking out for one's self vs just the organization you work for.... but I dunno. It seems something isn't right there.

[DuckIII]

He's definitely spinning it, he is the owner of the Mavs after all, heh.

But I think the one point he makes is that NBA players won't risk playing for 'national pride and patriotism' if they are not locked into a juicy contract. They won't risk themselves to play then, but they will risk their team's future once they lockdown that contract. Not saying there isn't a distinction there between looking out for one's self vs just the organization you work for.... but I dunno. It seems something isn't right there.

Eh, he's a putz on this issue. That is what insurance is for. Which is why Cleveland was able to force the issue with Z and why Chicago may be able to do the same with Lu.

[kyrv]

I suspect a lot of these guys do it for the thrill of representing their home nation in Olympic competition. Just because money is an element of it doesn't mean it isn't ultimately about patriotism and pride. I'm sure I'm not the only kid who grew up playing sports who dreamed about how cool it would be to represent my country in the Olympics. Had I ever been afforded the opportunity, it would have been an honor I would have cherished for my entire life.

He's definitely spinning it, he is the owner of the Mavs after all, heh.

But I think the one point he makes is that NBA players won't risk playing for 'national pride and patriotism' if they are not locked into a juicy contract. They won't risk themselves to play then, but they will risk their team's future once they lockdown that contract. Not saying there isn't a distinction there between looking out for one's self vs just the organization you work for.... but I dunno. It seems something isn't right there.

I think that's a great post.

I forgot about Gasol. I think we are heading towards a lot more restrictions. The NBA is huge business and it probably would have happened already except that you seem 'unpatriotic' if you argue against it.

[SSUBluesman]

It strikes me as presumptuous to tell a Bulls fan about Deng, but as an outsider I can't help but laugh at the idea that Deng's injury and performance issues are a result of a commitment level similar to Wade's. I also can't help but draw the obvious comparison to Wade's international participation only upon being completely healthy while Deng is basically promising participation irregardless of, and probably in spite of his health.

Assuming you read the article, I think you misread it. This report doesn't say that Deng will play in these games in September if he's still injured. And I don't think any of us think that is what he'll do, nor is it what we are discussing. The idea here is that he shouldn't play simply so he can have a full summer of rest since he's shown a tendency to suffer a number of nagging injuries in-season the last two years.

And as a Bulls fan, I support that approach. I don't want him playing. But I understand why he will, and won't hold it against him.

The statement is made that "upon being healthy...", which should clearly put health above everything else. However, if the best thing for health is a full summer of rest, his participation than would be detrimental to his health. That these feelings are being expressed months ahead of participation, while still not being healed, should also be concerning.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Given what we know about players who play international ball, TB, and the teams that have explored preventing them from doing so, I think its pretty safe to assume that most players have exceptions written into their contracts that would allow them to play for their national team. The "form" contract likely means very little.

You may be right, of course. None of us know exactly what it in Deng's contract. If he doesn't have an exemption to play for England, I can see where the Bulls may NOT have enforced their rights to not let him play last year but I would hope they'd put the kibash on it this year. The loyalty and good of the team clause is likely in there and if his playing this summer is demonstrably likely to increase the chance that he won't be able to come into next season in good physical condition, they may be able to keep him home under that provision.

If there is a chance to force him to pass on playing for team England I sure as heck hope the legal brain trust for the Bulls presses it hard.

The Bulls & Deng probably figured Deng's contract would be fully insured.

Then Deng can play for Great Britain all that he wants & the Bulls need to release him - just like all the other NBA stars. They dont need special permission. It is part of NBA/FIBA agreement

HOWEVER, the insurer did not fully insure Deng. No one apparently expected this - and it cretes a legal precedence. What now? Last season, Bulls granted permission because GB produced full insurance. However Deng was not recovering from a broken/fractured bone & was not advised to rest.

This year? If GB automatically produces insurance again, do the Bulls have to release Deng? I dont know. It's a legal matter

[Rerisen]

If Deng is insistent on being active this summer, it would benefit the Bulls more if he would work on his game with Thorpe. Try to fix his mid-range form or whatever has been bothering his shot, and work on extending his range, post game, or dribbling.

If all goes well and Deng doesn't get hurt or reaggravate a nagging injury in the Eurobasket, then its possible the games could work him somewhat into shape, but I don't think they will progress his game any. He won't be matched up with NBA quality talent that often I suspect.

Maybe Deng could pay for Thorpe to travel with him during the tournament. Though actually, a case could be made that staying a continent away from the guy might be for the best considering the rate at which Deng and Tyrus are progressing after working with him.

BTW, what exactly is a "Euro-Basket"? Sounds like a imported woman's purse or something.