Luol Deng ready to defy trainer by fulfilling national duty

[Three34]

What is the significance of the Eurobasket competition if you've already qualified for the Olympics? Not to be funny but I'm just trying to understand what the benefit to his participation would be. I'm sure the team wouldn't be as competitive without him but that's what happens when your best player is injured. It's only one tournament and not the biggest at that unless I'm underestimating its value. I honestly don't know it's the first time I've ever heard of the European National Basketball Championships.

I just feel as though his summers spent playing for the national team have negatively affected his NBA game. I think he would benefit from taking the summer off to concentrate on his conditioning and if their Olympic bid is not affected what's the harm.

It's the European equivalent of the FIBA Americas Championship. Except that it's far more competitive.

[fleet]

By the way, all of you who are making comments to the extent of "Luol isn't loyal enough, let's trade him" are kind of missing a point. The fact that his employer - to whom you wish him to be staunchly loyal - is able to trade him away for no reason at all if they so choose, is a reason to cap any man's loyalty to them.

Which would you rather do; be the face and the saviour of all of basketball in the finest nation in the world, the one which gave you and your family political asylum, which gave you the health and relative wealth of you and yours, and which your family resides and finds employment (including your basketball playing siblings).......or turn all that down to be "loyal" to a team whose fans want you gone.

I'm choosing the former, and I'd support any player's decision to do the same, even if I didn't share their nationality like I do with Luol right hurr.

I may well agree with you. But life is not that simple. Owners of NBA teams have a different perspective on this. What you might like to do is not always the most responsible action to take.

Of course, I think your point about Dengs healing time is pretty strong Sham. But The Bulls may not be quite as generous, and their doctors could have a better grasp on medical issues than you and I. So far, there are at least 2 NBA entities one of which is his employer that disagree with Deng on this

[fleet]

anyrate, for those who pointed out there was no evidence Deng has Great Britain as his priority can now rest assured

I'll rest assured that there is still no evidence that Deng prioritizes the GB team over the Bulls. None. I will concede, as I always have, that he values them both and perhaps values his committment to his national team more than, say, Michael Redd does. But this story absolutely does not validate the baseless opinion, stated by you and TommyUdo, that the GB team is where Deng's committment lies and that the Bulls is something he just does on the side.

Hes defying medical advice from 2 different entities, Thorpe (whom you openly do not respect) and his paymaster the Bulls (an entity you probably hold in higher esteem, though esteem often wavers rightfully so)

This story evidences a player committed to playing for his national team as well as his professional team, with some very unique reasons why as stated by both Dantown and coldfish. Indeed, the story explicitly states that Deng will be balancing his committment to both teams by significantly reducing his role with the GB team this summer, to something quite a bit less than what they were hoping for. Its just that Deng isn't going to forsake that committment altogether.

hes cutting back as a concession to his medical issues, not as a concession to the Bulls in general. At least, thats what the story is indicating. Its a medical concession. Not a prioritorial concession. And I probably just made up a word there

Is Deng's sense of committment to GB more than I, as an American Bulls fan who doesn't give a rat's ass about British basketball, would like it to be? Absolutely. Selfishly, I don't want him playing for the national team and, in fact, openly rooted against Hinrich making the Olympic squad for the same reasons. I will not, however, allow my personal bias and preference to cloud my objective view of the choices these players make.

A number of you are saying that Deng should return part of his contract amount to the Bulls, or that he's not honoring his contract, or even that the Bulls should waive him for this. Here's the news: None of this violates Deng's contract. None of it. Cuban explored what he could do to limit Dirk and Nash in their international committments and realized, damn, it doesn't breach an NBA contract to play for a national team. And with Dirk the inquiry was injury related (ankle issue, I believe), just like with Deng. The Spurs came to the same conclusion.

legally, I'm sure you are correct. Though I think the insurance issue is another matter of leverage over Deng I wish the Bulls can employ

Deng is honoring his committment to both organizations. Not prioritizing one over the other. A lot of you want Deng to openly prioritize the Bulls over GB, by disregarding the latter committment altogether. I want that to. But his decision to honor both is not evidence that he values his national team first.

Nonetheless, as a Bulls fan I am definitely disappointed in his decision.

reiterating, Deng is defying the Bulls team that pays him big money in a semi-collapsed economy. The monetary system is still currently intact however, and Deng enjoys quite a comfortable lifestyle because of it. Yes, we are disapointed, and he seems unwilling to consider the Bulls feelings on the matter, their medical opinion, and the repercussions of potential injury to their team structure given his humongus salary. That, in my book, spells priorities.

[fleet]

Meh, we all expected this. You can't expect me to bash Deng since I'm in the military.

My personal feeling is that you do your own service to your country a disservice when you conflate playing basketball and stepping into the line of fire

His priorities are different, it's obvious to the Bulls now and they should look to trade him if they don't want to deal with those issues year round.

agreed

[ShadowDweller]

What is the significance of the Eurobasket competition if you've already qualified for the Olympics? Not to be funny but I'm just trying to understand what the benefit to his participation would be. I'm sure the team wouldn't be as competitive without him but that's what happens when your best player is injured. It's only one tournament and not the biggest at that unless I'm underestimating its value. I honestly don't know it's the first time I've ever heard of the European National Basketball Championships.

I just feel as though his summers spent playing for the national team have negatively affected his NBA game. I think he would benefit from taking the summer off to concentrate on his conditioning and if their Olympic bid is not affected what's the harm.

It's the European equivalent of the FIBA Americas Championship. Except that it's far more competitive.

Thanks for the info.

[fleet]

I have another point. Gordon isn't playing for GB yet. Yet. I wonder why. No take that back I don't wonder why. Seems like noble purpose has a lot to do with having a large guaranteed 2nd NBA contract in your back pocket.

[DanTown8587]

The thing about Deng is this: he MIGHT have his contract become fully insured. When the new contracts that were just signed go into effect, the insurance company might select another player and might take Deng off the list. Than he becomes fully insured.

But if he is fully insured, and even if he gets third party insurance, the Bulls hold the right to deny him to play.

[Tommy Udo 6]

The thing about Deng is this: he MIGHT have his contract become fully insured. When the new contracts that were just signed go into effect, the insurance company might select another player and might take Deng off the list. Than he becomes fully insured.

But if he is fully insured, and even if he gets third party insurance, the Bulls hold the right to deny him to play.

Is that how it works??? I don't think so.

I believe that once you are excluded, you stay excluded for the length of that contract. It isnt re-evaluated every year. On the other hand, if the insurer "misses" something, they cant add it later.

Eddy Curry was a total exclusion due to heart issues. They havent added him back to the insured list just because he hasnt had a heart attack. He stays excluded for the length of the contract.

It's only re-evaluated when a new contract is signed.

[fleet]

So here's a thought in a bit of a different direction.

PR is a huge part of this whole fan-relations thing, right? Which players are getting the "good" press and the "bad" press seems to be a fairly frequent discussion around here, anyway. IIRC, there were no quotes from Lu in the article - the appearance of greater loyalty to GB and the whole "screw how it impacts the Bulls" sentiment is basically established by the headline the paper has opted for, that he plans to "defy" his trainer and medical advice.

If you just take the quotes from Thorpe without the article context, it honestly doesn't sound nearly as "defiant" as I first took the article. Try to imagine it with a headline instead of "Luol Deng hopes to recover from injuries in time to play for GB." Throw in the same Thorpe quotes - he feels a duty, he enjoys it, blah, blah, blah. The only thing left then is Thorpe's quote that taking the whole summer off is not acceptable - and he goes on to talk about what adjustments to schedule/games he will make to safeguard his health as much as possible, that he will be there in some capacity.

Then remember that this article is in a GB paper - so for its primary audience, the whole idea of defying his trainer and US team for national glory is an entirely positive message. Why would they care about his success on the Bulls any more than most here care about his success with the British team? They just happen to be painting a picture of Lu that, while hugely appealing there, is hugely unappealing here.

This doesn't change much of the discussion here, since there is still obviously concern about how hopes to play this summer will impact his health and availability next year - but it sure puts Lu in a different light, no? He's getting the Tyrus edit instead of what used to be known as the Luol edit.

No I think you raise an interesting question about why what Deng is doing could be cool enough for me to get behind, in spite of my Bulls fan sensibilities. Say for example, if GB supports international Sudan reform policy more than the USA does. Now THAT would be something of a cause that takes a back seat to the Basketball priority stuff. Yet all these years watching Tony Blair waggling his backside and tail like Bush's poodle every time the USA asked him to sit and speak makes me cynical on that.
I'm not even all that sold on Dengs Sudan reform commitments. George Clooney and probably Bono of all people appear to be doing more.

[DuckIII]

I have another point. Gordon isn't playing for GB yet. Yet. I wonder why. No take that back I don't wonder why. Seems like noble purpose has a lot to do with having a large guaranteed 2nd NBA contract in your back pocket.

True, as it should be. But Gordon is "British" by location of birth only. He's got no real ties to that nation. Him playing for that team is akin to Kaman playing for Germany; i.e., taking advantage of a chance to play in the Olympics. In other words, I don't think its very fair to compare their respective "purposes". Their situations are very different.

[fleet]

For the Americans (which includes me) in this discussion: what were your thoughts when Dwyane Wade was playing on the national team last summer? He missed a ton of his games, his team was basically out right tanking and Wade had missed time for two straight years then Wade plays with the best in the world, raises his game and is now the third best player in the league all of the sudden. Was everyone clamoring Wade wasn't doing enough for Miami and shouldn't play for team USA? No. Deng is in the EXACT SAME SITUATION except if he doesn't play GB is god awful and if Wade didn't play, the three guards off the Team USA bench would have been Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Michael Redd.

If you want consistency, keep looking. You are raising a good question. Double standards aside, Deng needs more work in lots of areas than those guys, and if anything, his game has less margin for error. Thats not necessarily a double standard.

And how does Luol preparing for international competition NOT help the Bulls? Its not like if he stretches out his jump shot or adds a post game that he all of the sudden will fail to do so for the NBA. I actually PREFER my guys to work hard all summer with something like Eurobasket to influence them.

like I implied, I could do without the "benefits" to Lu's game I've seen the last couple years

[triplet1984]

If it was Team USA he felt duty-bound to play for, I suspect there would be considerably less angst about him. Still there would be some, since he'd be defying coach/team, but not nearly as much as there is here.

[TB#1]

I think Cuban is spot on.

Take a player like Tyson Chandler, who sat on his butt the summer he was negotiating a new deal for fear he would injure himself running a few laps around the gym and as a consequence was an impediment to the Bulls for half a season while he "played his way into shape."

Compare and contrast Deng, who I'm not blaming for being susceptible to injury, but has shown that he somewhat is and who has multiple trainers and coaches recommending that he rest the stress fracture that is currently keeping him from helping the Bulls and ignoring that advice in favor of risking injury playing for GB this summer and possibly (heck I will say probably) risking some or all of next season with an injury or injuries. Bad for the org but he's willing to risk it -- maybe partially due to national pride, but the decision is a heck of a lot easier when you know you are going to get paid, hurt or not. He sure as ish ain't going to be sending money back to the Bulls when he's sitting on the sidelines in a cast from October to February.

Remember: this isn't just about the "what if" factor of playing extra basketball. Deng is ALREADY nursing an injury that multiple sources have told him needs rest to heal, including this summer and he's insisting he will play international ball anyway. That is a far more reckless situation than most of the players who get caught up in the conversation about exposing ones self to potential injury.

[sonny]

If it was Team USA he felt duty-bound to play for, I suspect there would be considerably less angst about him. Still there would be some, since he'd be defying coach/team, but not nearly as much as there is here.

I disagree.

There was some concern about Kirk playing for USA because of the fear of injury/stamina issues later on in the year.

And unlike Deng, Kirk didn't have injury problems or 2 relatively subpar seasons in a row.

[TB#1]

If it was Team USA he felt duty-bound to play for, I suspect there would be considerably less angst about him. Still there would be some, since he'd be defying coach/team, but not nearly as much as there is here.

I disagree.

There was some concern about Kirk playing for USA because of the fear of injury/stamina issues later on in the year.

And unlike Deng, Kirk didn't have injury problems or 2 relatively subpar seasons in a row.

I agree with your points, sonny and point to my post above for the reasons.

[Three34]

Deng is ALREADY nursing an injury that multiple sources have told him needs rest to heal, including this summer and he's insisting he will play international ball anyway.

It's six months away. Six months. Is six months rest sufficient rest? I'd expect so.

[TB#1]

Deng is ALREADY nursing an injury that multiple sources have told him needs rest to heal, including this summer and he's insisting he will play international ball anyway.

It's six months away. Six months. Is six months rest sufficient rest? I'd expect so.

Not according to those already on record advising that he sit out the fish & chips tour in favor of his resting and recuperating so he'll be ready to play next season..

And that's six months already resting on the Bulls' dime (and by "dime" of course, I mean that colloquially, as in really its the remainder of the $9.3M US he's getting paid this year, not ten cents). Are you really telling me you have faith that Luol is going to go play the Euro-whatever thing and come back stateside ready, willing and most of all able to play 82+ games in 2009-10?

**When you wish upon a staaaaarrr...makes no difference whooo youuu aaaaaaaaare"

[DanTown8587]

The thing about Deng is this: he MIGHT have his contract become fully insured. When the new contracts that were just signed go into effect, the insurance company might select another player and might take Deng off the list. Than he becomes fully insured.

But if he is fully insured, and even if he gets third party insurance, the Bulls hold the right to deny him to play.

Is that how it works??? I don't think so.

I believe that once you are excluded, you stay excluded for the length of that contract. It isnt re-evaluated every year. On the other hand, if the insurer "misses" something, they cant add it later.

Eddy Curry was a total exclusion due to heart issues. They havent added him back to the insured list just because he hasnt had a heart attack. He stays excluded for the length of the contract.

It's only re-evaluated when a new contract is signed.

Well, thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression its a year-year thing where they can take guys on and off who are in the highest contract bracket. Thanks.

[Three34]

Are you really telling me you have faith that Luol is going to go play the Euro-whatever thing and come back stateside ready, willing and most of all able to play 82+ games in 2009-10?

**When you wish upon a staaaaarrr...makes no difference whooo youuu aaaaaaaaare"

Do I think that playing 3 games for Britain in September is going to jeopardise the entirety of next season? No, no I really don't.

[DanTown8587]

I don't think Sham is saying it isn't a risk. Without truly speaking for him (even though I agree with him), I believe Deng playing three games if healthy won't change the outcome for the 09-10 season than as if he hadn't played them.