Luol Deng ready to defy trainer by fulfilling national duty

[TB#1]

Are you really telling me you have faith that Luol is going to go play the Euro-whatever thing and come back stateside ready, willing and most of all able to play 82+ games in 2009-10?

**When you wish upon a staaaaarrr...makes no difference whooo youuu aaaaaaaaare"

Do I think that playing 3 games for Britain in September is going to jeopardise the entirety of next season? No, no I really don't.

That's only three games if Team Brittany doesn't make it out of the preliminaries, n'est ce-pas?

Keep a stiff upper lip and all but have some faith in the boys from the Isles. They will play more than 3, especially riding the delicate back of Mr. Deng.

And that's the tournament -- not even getting into the practices, scrimmages and "friendlies."

[TheStig]

Are you really telling me you have faith that Luol is going to go play the Euro-whatever thing and come back stateside ready, willing and most of all able to play 82+ games in 2009-10?

**When you wish upon a staaaaarrr...makes no difference whooo youuu aaaaaaaaare"

Do I think that playing 3 games for Britain in September is going to jeopardise the entirety of next season? No, no I really don't.

But it really is that bad, he was gone for more than a month last year and played more than 3 games. There are practices, appearances, and games. I think we can all agree after the cr@ppy two years he had he should do everything in his power to come back better than ever. He needs to rest, train and get stronger so he can stay healthy.

[NoSkyy]

Fail. Just..epic fail.

Honestly, I probably would have done the same though.

Screwed over the guys that just gave you 71 million dollars? Doubt it.

Well I'm sure he won't look at it the same way. He's probably approaching it

"GB saved my life." "Sudan Sucked" kind of thing.

[Three34]

That's only three games if Team Brittany doesn't make it out of the preliminaries, n'est ce-pas?

Keep a stiff upper lip and all but have some faith in the boys from the Isles. They will play more than 3, especially riding the delicate back of Mr. Deng.

We've overmatched, in spite of how improved we are, so it's not likely.

And that's the tournament -- not even getting into the practices, scrimmages and "friendlies."

But therein lies the point - even the exact article that brought out this debate talks about the need (and perhaps the liklehood) for a compromise on how much non-essential stuff he winds up doing. This isn't a man embarking on a six week world tour; it's a few practices (which he'd be doing even if he stayed in America) and about three games of action (which, again, isn't significantly different from what he'd be doing anyway).

If hee really can't go, then I see no reason to suspect that he would. If you can't play due to injury, then you can't play due to injury. But Deng should be recovered by then, and if he is, this isn't really any different. For all the injuries that people can list which originated from international competition last summer, I can name you a player who blew his knee out during training camp. If Deng doesn't play for Britain, he should be working out in some capacity in September anyway. If not, we'll have to pretend that he has asthma again, like we did with Tyson.

[TeamMan]

Wow!!!!

Talk about a fire in the hole!!!

Come on folks, lets be honest, there is no news here.

First off, Deng notified the Bulls last summer that he was going to leave the country without a contract if the Bulls didn't finish it within his time limit. That's why JR jumped in and did the negotiations personally.

Secondly, if the situation was reversed (that is, if Deng was an American, and returning from playing soccer in Europe) would we expect him to refuse to play for our national team over the summer.

But Deng is "Mr. Basketball" in the U.K. and has a lot more at risk if he doesn't play.

But truthfully, JR, Pax and (yes) all of us Bulls fans should know the score.

Plus (and if anyone out there can correct me) isn't it possible that the Bulls are raking in some extra money from the sale of team items in the U.K. (i.e. cable contracts)

More important than Deng's loyality to the Bulls (over his country) is whether or not he's going to fit into our long-range plans for Rose. And right now I'd say it's up in the air, especially with Salmons fitting in so well.

[DJhitek]

If it was Team USA he felt duty-bound to play for, I suspect there would be considerably less angst about him. Still there would be some, since he'd be defying coach/team, but not nearly as much as there is here.

I disagree.

There was some concern about Kirk playing for USA because of the fear of injury/stamina issues later on in the year.

And unlike Deng, Kirk didn't have injury problems or 2 relatively subpar seasons in a row.

I agree, and truthfully, I don't care as a fan that he plays on the GB team as long as he is fully healthy.

Deng is ALREADY nursing an injury that multiple sources have told him needs rest to heal, including this summer and he's insisting he will play international ball anyway.

It's six months away. Six months. Is six months rest sufficient rest? I'd expect so.

If it is than it's a non-issue. I still find the fact that medical people/Bulls staff are advising him to rest to be important. I'm not a doctor so I won't pretend to know how long it takes to completely heal from a fracture.

[suckfish]

I have another point. Gordon isn't playing for GB yet. Yet. I wonder why. No take that back I don't wonder why. Seems like noble purpose has a lot to do with having a large guaranteed 2nd NBA contract in your back pocket.

I don't think Gordon ever intended to play before the 2012 Olympics. Of course, even if he wanted to, it isn't going to happen until he sorts his NBA job out. Taking the one year deal pretty much guaranteed no International basketball.

As a bulls fan, clearly this isn't good news. Regardless, you all knew he was going to play, and unless the bulls decide to try and do something about it, he will play, and you'll put up with it. Rule Britannia!

[sonny]

If it was Team USA he felt duty-bound to play for, I suspect there would be considerably less angst about him. Still there would be some, since he'd be defying coach/team, but not nearly as much as there is here.

I disagree.

There was some concern about Kirk playing for USA because of the fear of injury/stamina issues later on in the year.

And unlike Deng, Kirk didn't have injury problems or 2 relatively subpar seasons in a row.

I agree, and truthfully, I don't care as a fan that he plays on the GB team as long as he is fully healthy.

People were even worried about Rose playing on the practice team because of his tendinitis. The problem isn't the fact that it's Great Britain, it's that Deng has struggled with injuries and his play for two seasons and that team doctors and independent trainers are advising him against playing.

[suckfish]

We've overmatched, in spite of how improved we are, so it's not likely.

At least Rudy has belief in GB.

Yeah right, what is Rudy smoking?

http://www.basketball247.co.uk/news/archives/00000341.shtml

SPANISH superstar Rudy Fernandez believes Great Britain are a good outside bet to win this summer's European Championships.

And he claims that GB are being talked about as potential winners of the tournament.

Fernandez said: "I think Britain can be a great team, everyone knows the names,

"Luol Deng is a big player in Chicago, now they may be getting Ben Gordon too, and Robert Archibald I know, he's a very aggressive, very competitive player.

[dougthonus]

You cannot equate the unique circumstance of a player deliberately dogging it in actual NBA games, and telling plays to the opposition, to force a trade to this situation. Yes, you've found a "bad faith" exception to my general proposition. By my proposition is based on the assumption - especially since it applies to this situation - that the parties are acting in good faith. If they act in good faith, then the concepts and legality and morality verge within the terms of the contract.

The legality of the contract isn't subject to much interpretation (though I'm sure there is some wiggle room even there). The morality is.

After you completely failed your team and tremendously harmed them after they committed so much of their resources to you, then I think you are acting in bad faith by taking undue risks which will further degrade your ability to do the things you were paid to do. I agree that his contract does not prevent him from taking such risks as part of the agreement between FIBA and the NBA to open the doors to top European talent, however, I think a player owes it to his team to skip international competition when the physical toll is significantly hampering their NBA career.

That appears to be the case with Deng. I can see you view it differently. That's fine given that I don't think either of us believe that issues of morality are black and white.

[Rerisen]

Rudy needs to calm down, sounds like he took a knock to the head or something...

[dougthonus]

The thing about Deng is this: he MIGHT have his contract become fully insured. When the new contracts that were just signed go into effect, the insurance company might select another player and might take Deng off the list. Than he becomes fully insured.

But if he is fully insured, and even if he gets third party insurance, the Bulls hold the right to deny him to play.

Is that how it works??? I don't think so.

I believe that once you are excluded, you stay excluded for the length of that contract. It isnt re-evaluated every year. On the other hand, if the insurer "misses" something, they cant add it later.

Eddy Curry was a total exclusion due to heart issues. They havent added him back to the insured list just because he hasnt had a heart attack. He stays excluded for the length of the contract.

It's only re-evaluated when a new contract is signed.

I believe it is re-evaluated every year. I might be mistaken though.

[Tommy Udo 6]

The thing about Deng is this: he MIGHT have his contract become fully insured. When the new contracts that were just signed go into effect, the insurance company might select another player and might take Deng off the list. Than he becomes fully insured.

But if he is fully insured, and even if he gets third party insurance, the Bulls hold the right to deny him to play.

Is that how it works??? I don't think so.

I believe that once you are excluded, you stay excluded for the length of that contract. It isnt re-evaluated every year. On the other hand, if the insurer "misses" something, they cant add it later.

Eddy Curry was a total exclusion due to heart issues. They havent added him back to the insured list just because he hasnt had a heart attack. He stays excluded for the length of the contract.

It's only re-evaluated when a new contract is signed.

I believe it is re-evaluated every year. I might be mistaken though.

maybe someone can set us straight - but the exclusions need to be based on the contract. If you exclude yourself from a risk, why voluntarily take it on later? Deng's back isnt getting better as the years pass - it'll get worse. Company is off the risk & there is no incentive to increase their exposure.

I've never heard of a case where an excluded player was suddenly insured while on the same contract. Maybe someone can give an example.

Contracts expire every year so the company can re-evaluate players when new contracts are written. However, i cant see a bad back player ever getting fully insured. Backs just dont improve as the years pass.

[dougthonus]

maybe someone can set us straight - but the exclusions need to be based on the contract. If you exclude yourself from a risk, why voluntarily take it on later? Deng's back isnt getting better as the years pass - it'll get worse. Company is off the risk & there is no incentive to increase their exposure.

I've never heard of a case where an excluded player was suddenly insured while on the same contract. Maybe someone can give an example.

How many contracts do you know the insurance details for, and how would you know whether they change?

there is a tremendous reason to voluntarily take the risk on later. You have a limited number of exclusions. The risk of Luol Deng getting injured on a 71 million dollar deal is a lot different than in 4 years when he'll have 28 million dollars left. The companies would benefit greatly by using their exclusions on the deals that are both high year and high dollar amounts, so if they could pull off exclusions and reassign them they almost certainly would.

I'm not sure they can do that, but I thought they could.

[Tommy Udo 6]

if an uninsured contract later became insured, wouldn't that be reported?

NY received a first rounder from Phoenix (Nate Robinson) in order to take on the contract of Q Richardson (which is not insured for back injuries). If the insurer later decided to insure QRich in full, wouldnt that be known?

Same with Eddy Curry. He was excluded totally & even the Knicks & his agent could not find coverage in full at the time. I have never seen any report that the NBA carrier changed its mind & decided to insure Eddy.

As an insurance guy, I know it's highly unusual for the company to change its stance on insuring a risk once they specifically avoided the risk. I admit that it is theoretically possible. However, if it does happen, wouldnt we at least have heard of one case?

[dougthonus]

if an uninsured contract later became insured, wouldn't that be reported?

It's frequently not reported that a guy is uninsured on his deal at all as far as I can tell.

NY received a first rounder from Phoenix (Nate Robinson) in order to take on the contract of Q Richardson (which is not insured for back injuries). If the insurer later decided to insure QRich in full, wouldnt that be known?

Same with Eddy Curry. He was excluded totally & even the Knicks & his agent could not find coverage in full at the time. I have never seen any report that the NBA carrier changed its mind & decided to insure Eddy.

Both of these contracts only had known insurance issues because of the trades involved with them. Deng's insurance issue was known because he was trying to play internationally. I think insurance and players is similar to team fines in that we hear about it sometimes, but that most of the time we don't.

As an insurance guy, I know it's highly unusual for the company to change its stance on insuring a risk once they specifically avoided the risk. I admit that it is theoretically possible. However, if it does happen, wouldnt we at least have heard of one case?

Well this is very different than most insurance, because your risk in insuring a contract is rapidly declining while your risk in insuring a person or a physical item wouldn't do so otherwise.

You are insuring 1.8 billiob (roughly) for the same fee. Wouldn't you want to use your exclusions to limit the greatest total dollar amounts?

[suckfish]

Deng will apparently be playing in 'Game On At The O2' which is a friendly tournament in August just before the EuroBasket group games in September in Poland.

Game On At The O2 will be the first tournament for Great Britain in their preparations for Poland and Finch is hoping to have some new additions to his squad from last summer such as the return of Rob Archibald and the debut of Ben Gordon.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Deng will apparently be playing in 'Game On At The O2' which is a friendly tournament in August just before the EuroBasket group games in September in Poland.

Game On At The O2 will be the first tournament for Great Britain in their preparations for Poland and Finch is hoping to have some new additions to his squad from last summer such as the return of Rob Archibald and the debut of Ben Gordon.

This makes sense. Deng isnt just going to go there & play the 3 tourney games & go home. He's going to play warmup games also.

Also, Bulls should be aware that Ben will be spending his summers playing for GB after he signs his big contract. However, this should be no problem since Ben has not had injury issues in 5 years in NBA.

Then again, Deng only had one injury (before the Washington playoff series) until he started playing over the summer.

[The_Pope]

Contrary to some of the assertions made in this thread, GB have not yet officially gained a spot for the 2012 Olympics, and thus a strong showing this summer is still important.

[BR0D1E86]

Thank you, your Holiness.