Trade from Utah board

sco · Post #1 » by **sco** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:07 pm

Trade discussed on Utah board (as part of a bigger discussion):

Trade 1 (w/ Chicago Bulls)
Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas for Paul Millsap (S&T) and Ronnie Brewer

Hinrich will be a great fit with the Jazz style and he can play both 1 & 2 for the Jazz. Thomas fills the gap left by dparting FAs. The Bulls get a stud young swingman to replace Hinrich and a low post beast in Millsap to shore up their front line.

another comment:

CoolKids wrote:Chicago laughs at that trade. Thomas has improved drastically and Hinrich is a lot better then brewer. A starting front court of Koufos and Okur is going to get killed in the paint both offensively and defensively.

I'd do that trade...what about you?

Post #2 » by **Three34** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:10 pm

Oh easily.

Post #3 » by **Three34** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:11 pm

Also, that follow-up comment kind of misses the point - you make that trade, and Koufos is no longer starting.

Sever82 · Post #4 » by **Sever82** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:11 pm

I wouldn't do it, i'm not a big fan of mislap. Thomas is only 22 and will probably surpass mislap, with Rose only being 20 why would you be inpatient with Thomas at this point. If you can't package him for bosh or amare, might as well keep him for the time being until he develops further. Plus adding hinrich to the deal just makes it one sided for the Jazz.

dice · Post #5 » by **dice** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:14 pm

i think we do that

sco · Post #6 » by **sco** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:17 pm

Sever82 wrote:I wouldn't do it, i'm not a big fan of mislap. Thomas is only 22 and will probably surpass mislap, with Rose only being 20 why would you be inpatient with Thomas at this point. If you can't package him for bosh or amare, might as well keep him for the time being until he develops further. Plus adding hinrich to the deal just makes it one sided for the Jazz.

I am not a big fan of Milsap either, but I think the Bulls are in "Dump Thomas at any cost mode" (I don't agree btw), but if that's the case, I'd say we are a little better off than our alternatives. That said, I am a much bigger fan of Brewer. He reminds me of Thabo and could be good Gordon insurance this year and Salmons insurance next year.

JackFinn · Post #7 » by **JackFinn** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:18 pm

No way for Utah

rose2tyrus · Post #8 » by **rose2tyrus** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:21 pm

Millsap is good...

I'd do it.

Sever82 · Post #9 » by **Sever82** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:22 pm

sco wrote:
Sever82 wrote:I wouldn't do it, i'm not a big fan of mislap. Thomas is only 22 and will probably surpass mislap, with Rose only being 20 why would you be inpatient with Thomas at this point. If you can't package him for bosh or amare, might as well keep him for the time being until he develops further. Plus adding hinrich to the deal just makes it one sided for the Jazz.

I am not a big fan of Milsap either, but I think the Bulls are in "Dump Thomas at any cost mode" (I don't agree btw), but if that's the case, I'd say we are a little better off than our alternatives. That said, I am a much bigger fan of Brewer. He reminds me of Thabo and could be good Gordon insurance this year and Salmons insurance next year.

I think the Bulls are in "Dump Thomas if you can land someone big mode". I doubt the bulls would trade thomas away unless its for bosh, amare, or another blockbuster deal. If the bulls dont trade Thomas, Del Negro will need to find a way to trust him and give him minutes. Tyrus improved over last year and nearly doubled all his stats so i doubt the bulls are giving up on him. I'd rather hold onto thomas and watch him develop with rose, than trade him away in a trade thats based off his current value rather than his eventual value. Not saying he will be this good but i feel the bulls are in the same situation the blazers were with Jermaine O'neal. I'm tired of this notion that if someone has been in the league for three or more years they should be developed. In the case of thomas, he's only played 20+ minutes one season and he's only 22. Too early to call him a bust, people jump the gun too quickly just like some people did on Noah, saying it was a waste pick.

Grand Champ · Post #10 » by **Grand Champ** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:30 pm

This team needs better rebounders and size at the 2 guard position and Millsap and Brewer give you that... this would be a STEAL for the Bulls.

DanChee33 · Post #11 » by **DanChee33** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:31 pm

DO IT NOW!!

sco · Post #12 » by **sco** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:32 pm

Sever82 wrote:
sco wrote:
Sever82 wrote:I wouldn't do it, i'm not a big fan of mislap. Thomas is only 22 and will probably surpass mislap, with Rose only being 20 why would you be inpatient with Thomas at this point. If you can't package him for bosh or amare, might as well keep him for the time being until he develops further. Plus adding hinrich to the deal just makes it one sided for the Jazz.

I am not a big fan of Milsap either, but I think the Bulls are in "Dump Thomas at any cost mode" (I don't agree btw), but if that's the case, I'd say we are a little better off than our alternatives. That said, I am a much bigger fan of Brewer. He reminds me of Thabo and could be good Gordon insurance this year and Salmons insurance next year.

I think the Bulls are in "Dump Thomas if you can land someone big mode". I doubt the bulls would trade thomas away unless its for bosh, amare, or another blockbuster deal. If the bulls dont trade Thomas, Del Negro will need to find a way to trust him and give him minutes. Tyrus improved over last year and nearly doubled all his stats so i doubt the bulls are giving up on him. I'd rather hold onto thomas and watch him develop with rose, than trade him away in a trade thats based off his current value rather than his eventual value. Not saying he will be this good but i feel the bulls are in the same situation the blazers were with Jermaine O'neal. I'm tired of this notion that if someone has been in the league for three or more years they should be developed. In the case of thomas, he's only played 20+ minutes one season and he's only 22. Too early to call him a bust, people jump the gun too quickly just like some people did on Noah, saying it was a waste pick.

I hope you are right, but the latest rumors have him part of a package to move up in the draft (which is only going to yield you a bench guy...even Blair IMO is a bench guy).

Sever82 · Post #13 » by **Sever82** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:43 pm

What rumors? As i recall the only rumors saying that are the ones generated on these boards. I haven't seen a linked article or source saying thomas is being packaged for a pick. I highly doubt the bulls would trade a piece like thomas for a pick in probably one of the weakest drafts in a while.

BR0D1E86 · Post #14 » by **BR0D1E86** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:44 pm

What would the value of the S&T have to be to make it all work? At a glance, heck yeah I’d do it.

Leto · Post #15 » by **Leto** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:01 pm

I wouldn't do it. Milsap aint that good. He went 13ppg and 8.5 boards in 30 mins last year. Tyrus is almost that right now except with better defense.

Grand Champ · Post #16 » by **Grand Champ** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:20 pm

Leto wrote:I wouldn't do it. Milsap aint that good. He went 13ppg and 8.5 boards in 30 mins last year. Tyrus is almost that right now except with better defense.

Tyrus would be lucky to average those numbers in 40 mins a game...

MeatWad0 · Post #17 » by **MeatWad0** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:21 pm

sco wrote:I hope you are right, but the latest rumors have him part of a package to move up in the draft (which is only going to yield you a bench guy...even Blair IMO is a bench guy).

Exactly the reason why I would love this trade. I would do this, then turn around and package our two picks for Blair, or Hill if we could get that high.

Rose/Hinrich
Gordon(Hopefully)/Hinrich
Salmons/Deng
Milsap/Blair
Noah/Miller

thats pretty well balanced.

SuburbanOasis · Post #18 » by **SuburbanOasis** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:23 pm

Without a trade for a big fish (Amare, Bosh, etc) I think the bulls will almost definitely keep Tyrus.

His defensive numbers were pretty good (blocks and steals) especially considering they almost all came from January on. Add 2 months of blocks and steals to that and he is probably top 3 in the league (For blocks at least).

Millsap is a slightly larger version of Tyrus who can't jump as high. Adding him wouldn't be a bad plan if it were for Gordon (although I still might balk at that idea unless the greater plan was to move him/tyrus for a big fish) but he isn't really necessary at this point and may be a downgrade.

MeatWad0 · Post #19 » by **MeatWad0** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:28 pm

Leto wrote:I wouldn't do it. Milsap aint that good. He went 13ppg and 8.5 boards in 30 mins last year. Tyrus is almost that right now except with better defense.

First of all, if Tyrus ever averaged 13ppg or 8.5rpg I would poop myself, Tyrus plays good help defense, Milsap plays good man defense and is still getting better.

I wouldn't be surprised if Milsap pushed his averages up to 15/10.

BTW Milsaps counterpart PER is a good bit lower then Thomas'.

Leto · Post #20 » by **Leto** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:36 pm

Milsap sucks at man defense or help defense. Tyrus is already at over 10ppg right now. That includes his crappy season start and at fewer minutes than Milsap.

Counterpart PER is not a stat I really care about because defense is a team sport.

Milsap is short, can't defend and is a marginal scorer who has no upside. I'll take Tyrus.

Edit: Tyrus averaged 10.9 PPG and 6.4 boards in 27 mins...that is very close to what Milsap averaged whether you like it or not.