Trade from Utah board

[Grand Champ]

Remind me next time Leto tries to argue something idiotic to just ignore him. Is there an ignore function on this board?

[JackFinn]

According to Draftexpress, he measured at 6' 6.25"

wow

without shoes.

Oh

[Bankshot]

Jerry Sloan would kill Tyrus Thomas, he's not his type of player. You think Skiles was tough on Tyrus!

[BULLHITTER]

And Tyrus has had a low BBALL I.Q, his whole career DASMACKDOWN, it didn't just start in the NBA PLAYOFFS. It's the fact that he refuses to accept his role, and focus on soley on what he's good at.

this is a terribly overused phrase on this board and imo, i don't think many posters (whomever's offended, it probably applies most to them) really can verbalize just WHAT basketball IQ is.....i read a 4 page thread over how he "totally ignored rose and kept the ball for himself" instead of passing the ball BACKWARD toward the C's goal. sure, he likely should've gotten the ball to a guard, but pass it "back"?....whatever....

does tyrus trip over his own feet? does he routinely throw the ball to the other team? does he zig when he should zag? i mean, what actions on the court promulgates this idea that he's so "dumb"?

turnovers by a young player are just that; is rose's IQ any lower when he forces passes in traffic? is kirk's? why is it thomas gets this "IQ" rap for failing to block out when in one sequence he's asked to play 20 feet from the hoop, then recover for weakside help, or get noah's back for weakside blocks. is it the occasional bad shot? if that's the case, gordon should be characterized as one of the dumbest bulls ever, even IF he makes them at a greater %.

also, is it clear to anybody just WHAT thomas' role IS? he's been inconsistent, sure enough, but if he's capable of getting 15-16 boards and 3-4 blocks to go with 14-18 points while playing on the interior AND exterior, how is it etched in stone that he OR VDN know exactly what role he best fits in? maybe he's a hybrid player unique unto himself and the bulls are best off letting him play his way into whatever role he's most consistent in; because that's really all he's lacking consistency.

i'm not trying to state thomas is the any kind of einstein at basketball (none of the current bulls exhibit any special IQ qualities for that matter), but this IQ stuff from a lot of posts is just parroting what some other poster started and uses a few plays to say "look at tyrus, what a dunce".....which is hardly the case.

[Grand Champ]

Tyrus is not only a dumb player by trying to do too much pretty much all the time... but he's lazy too. I'm not even sure how you do too much and be lazy at the same time... but he manages!

[BULLHITTER]

Tyrus is not only a dumb player by trying to do too much pretty much all the time... but he's lazy too. I'm not even sure how you do too much and be lazy at the same time... but he manages!

exactly the kind of posts i was referring to.......

[Hold That]

Tyrus is dumb because,

-He cuts to the basket almost never( what good is using Tyrus in the pick and role when he never rolls to the basket and is always poppinng out looking to shoot a jumper) Even when his man leaves him to play help defense you will find Tyrus floating out to the perimeter instead of immediately cutting to the basket.
-he's constantly out of position on offense.
-he constantly takes outside shots when it's not his stregnth instead of driving to the basket, which is what he is better at.
-Failing to get the ball to your player maker in a crunch situation shows alot about your basketball I.Q..
-Failing to accept his role on the team and constantly stepping outside of that role time and time again has alot to do with your basketball I.Q

From this list as you can see Basketball I.Q is nothing more than executing FUNDEMENTAL things in basketball, Joakim Noah is a perfect example. The guy is not the most athletic, but he knows where to be on the court, how to make himself availble to D.Rose, and how to position himself for rebounds, and almost never steps outside of his role trying to take the ball up the court and play PG from time to time or take crazy jump shots even if they some how go in.

Tyrus basketball I.Q is poor, there is no getting around it.

[Grand Champ]

Tyrus is not only a dumb player by trying to do too much pretty much all the time... but he's lazy too. I'm not even sure how you do too much and be lazy at the same time... but he manages!

exactly the kind of posts i was referring to.......

You wanna know Thomas's Role?

1) Block weakside shots - Good
2) Rebound - Bad
3) RUN THE FLOOR faster than your opponent - Bad
4) Hit open jumpshots less than 18' - Ok
5) Pass it if not open on jumpshot or drive to lane - Bad

You wanna know what his role isn't?

1) Dribbling the ball - Bad
2) Passing in traffic - Bad
3) shooting with a hand in his face - Bad
4) slagging off on the perimiter and not running the floor - Bad
5) banging in the paint - Bad

He's a stupid IQ basketball player because he does things he's bad at, more than he's good.

[dice]

is it me or does tyrus have an inordinate number of offensive fouls when he DOES take it to the hole?

[Sinistar6]

I think at this point we wait on Thomas unless we can trade him for a all-star.

Ya he's my boy, always will be. Bring back Jamal too pls...

[vvgotgame19]

I wouldn't do it. Milsap aint that good. He went 13ppg and 8.5 boards in 30 mins last year. Tyrus is almost that right now except with better defense.

Woah, just cause Tyrus blocks more shots doesn't mean he's a better defender. Milsap is by FAR the better defender of the two. By FAR. Tyrus still has a lot of learning to do.

[Rerisen]

Im just saying, why can't we see all our guys through?

We have been seeing him through. His first 3 years. He hasn't improved virtually at all. We can talk about his jumper going from terribad to below average, but it doesn't matter, because it hasn't made him a better offensive player. His per minute scoring and efficiency are the same as when he was as a rookie!

I wouldn't throw him away for nothing, but Milsap and Brewer are not nothing. They set our team up in a more balanced way and to fit better if we bring BG back.

At some point the 'just wait' with Tyrus Thomas starts to sound exactly like the same things said about Chandler and Curry. It's getting to be a long shot more and more that Tyrus busts out into anything resembling a star in his 4th or 5th season. Incremental small improvements are not a strong enough argument to keep him over a promising legit PF like Milsap. That does the things a PF is supposed to do.

And all these elements are simply the obvious, from afar reasoning to make a deal like this. Paxson more than anyone knows the inside info, about how Tyrus practices, how he executes what the coach wants on the floor... and the result of that seems to be that he is being shopped.

[Sonny_D1]

is it me or does tyrus have an inordinate number of offensive fouls when he DOES take it to the hole?

Too lazy to look it up but I would agree that he does get his fair share of them.

I eluded to this in the TT/Randolph thread, in that TT appears to have poor balance when he's around the rim. His coordination, fluidity and body control off the dribble is just plain bad when he's not the recipient of an alley oop pass.

I was hoping his footwork would get better as he matured, but three years later, I'm not sure how much you can actually "teach" coordination.

[sco]

The thing I am glad to see in looking at both the Utah and Portland boards is how much they covet Kirk. Kirk still has value as a starting caliber PG in this league, and despite the fact that he would have value for us next year, I think his trade value goes down. If we could somehow get back a legit starter for Kirk, I would be happy.

I am not wed to trading Tyrus, but unless the Bulls are willing to give him a ton of minutes next year to develop him/pump-up his trade value, it will only decline. He has shown year-over-year improvement this year, and has helped his value.

[Rerisen]

The whole excuse with Tyrus was once that he didn't get a chance, and just needed to start. Well this year he started. 60 games. And he put up 11.8 and 6.8 rebounds on a meager 44% shooting, while playing very suspect on/off defense.

Milsap by comparison, has a legit claim to the starter argument. When he started he put up 16 PPG and 10.3 rebounds and shot 54%, the type of efficient easy baskets you want from your PF. His TS% was probably around .600 as a starter, that's ridiculously good. Tyrus's TS% was .525, the same as Larry Hughes when he was here. And that is from our PF... I would take Milsap's production from our PF and be very happy next year.

[kyrv]

The whole excuse with Tyrus was once that he didn't get a chance, and just needed to start. Well this year he started. 60 games. And he put up 11.8 and 6.8 rebounds on a meager 44% shooting, while playing very suspect on/off defense.

Milsap by comparison, has a legit claim to the starter argument. When he started he put up 16 PPG and 10.3 rebounds and shot 54%, the type of efficient easy baskets you want from your PF. His TS% was probably around .600 as a starter, that's ridiculously good. Tyrus's TS% was .525, the same as Larry Hughes when he was here. And that is from our PF... I would take Milsap's production from our PF and be very happy next year.

And those people were right. When he started and got consistent minutes, Tyrus did much better. As predicted.


P.S. Can't wait to see the Milsap or Boozer posts after these guys are put under the microscope. Hoo boy.

[ManicBullsFan]

I say we don't pursue a thomas trade, if someone comes with an offer we listen thats all.

[Rerisen]

And those people were right. When he started and got consistent minutes, Tyrus did much better. As predicted.

Much better than bad perhaps. Average at best. Those were his starter numbers I listed. Now if he was playing superlative defense for those 30 minutes a night, you might say wait a minute, this guy is already contributing on one end let's wait for the other side to develop. But he wasn't. Our frontcourt was routinely killed by both stars and scrubs and rated near the bottom of the league for the entire season.

P.S. Can't wait to see the Milsap or Boozer posts after these guys are put under the microscope. Hoo boy.

They could be fool's gold. I don't think so. Rebounding rate is pretty reliable. Either way, I'm ready for a change. If we see the exact same frontcourt come back next season, this team is going to have the exact same weaknesses regardless if we bring BG back or if Rose improves.

[G I N T]

Clearly a great deal for the Bulls, but it's kind of odd that a Jazz fan started that thread. Millsap is better than Tyrus Thomas ever will be and understands his role very well. Millsap is much tougher than Tyrus and provides the frontcourt with some much needed bulk. Bulls get thrown around too easily and often let scrub opposing bigs go off for career nights. Doesn't even matter what kind of defender Millsap is, because Tyrus isn't that good of one either. Just being able to hold your ground would help this team defense.

Doesn't matter if that one Utah fan would do it though. It's a bad deal for the Jazz.

[Three34]

Paul Millsap is better than Tyrus at every facet of the game except blocking the ball out of bounds. If you don't think Paul Millsap is very good, then you've missed three years of memos about that. Hinrich is better than Brewer, and would need to be replaced, but a deal involving Salmons for someone like Barbosa sees to that. By obtaining Millsap, we address almost every one of our needs, and emphatically improve them. All we lose is a good backup point guard and an enigmatic dunker who sucks a bit.

So yes, you do the bloody deal.