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theanimal23 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:I would kill to get a player as good as Larry Hughes at his peak in this draft at #16.

Doug, how do you rate Johnson and Henderson after watching film? Who would you take? Do you think James Johnson can be our PF and play that position without "tweener" issues on both sides of the ball?

The short story is, I'd take Johnson, I really like him, he's someone I've always thought was underrated. On my podcast, I believe I had him 8th overall in this draft as far as what I perceived the talent to be. There is a fear with Johnson that he gets stuck as a tweener, but he also has the potential to be a mismatch nightmare for opposing teams. I think he needs to be willing to play the four and have a coach that's willing to run small ball lineups. I think we'd do both.

Henderson I think is a very good defender and athlete who's only a decent offensive player. I don't know how well he'll translate at the next level, but good character, fundamentals, and athleticism should make him a rotation player. I think (off the top of my head) that I had him 12th on my board which I did on my podcast yesterday where I put out my draft board in order.

For a longer story about the two guys you could check out here:
Gerald Henderson write up

James Johnson write up

link to all my write ups

RyGuy24 wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

If he's really good enough to be either our long-term SF or PF it sounds great. I just worry about a guy who doesn't have a set position and questionable work ethic. Does he have what it takes mentally to work hard enough to be quality enough to be a long-term piece at a single position. But in this draft, you take what you can get, right? If he pans out, he's going to be a beast

Here's the thing that different about Johnson than say a Corless Williamson that was a tweener and most tweener's

They have a skill set of one position and the size for another making them tweener's

In Johnson's case he has the size and skill set for both position, which I think everyone misses on this board. He doesn't have a set position because he's versatile and you gotta see what spot he'll be better at

This is what I keep trying to preach. Everyone is using "tweener" as a negative except for us I think. I'd say it's a positive.

In the interest of full disclosure, and I know Noc and Skiles are both gone, but 3/4 players can really play havoc with both the inside players and the perimeter players rotations. Doesn't mean it will with VDN, and isn't the best reason to be wary of a player.

I used to just say, he's a basketball player, he can play, then he can play somewhere. Selfishly as a fan, it can be frustrating having players without true positions, and it makes it a little harder to build the team in my opinion.

Anyway, say Johnson is all that and a bag of chips, and next season will be starting.

At what position is he starting?

^^
He would start the 4. Dont think for a second that Tyrus has the spot locked up. He just didnt want to start Miller and Noah.

BrooklynBulls wrote:

bullzman23 wrote:Do we really need to trade up for either of these guys?

Pretty good question right there. We may be making a mistake if we do, it's near impossible to tell how picks 3-15 go.

I agree, i just dont think that there will be a huge difference between the player picked let´s say 7th and the our pick the 16th.

I think the most exciting thing about trading up to grab Johnson is that theoretically it would lead to some sort of deal of our forwards. I'm still all on board to bring in Shaq for a year with his Championship experience and low post moves. Then you move Noah to power forward and have Johnson split time at the 3 and 4, resign BG and we're ready for a push

Edit: of course if you can get Bosh or Amare, even better

I wouldn't want to see Johnson at the 3. He's 6'8 and close to 260lbs, with a husky type of build. If the Bulls draft him and play him, he should primarily play as a 4.

biggestbullsfan wrote:^^
He would start the 4. Dont think for a second that Tyrus has the spot locked up. He just didnt want to start Miller and Noah.

Did I make some inference about Tyrus starting? I don't know if Tyrus will be on the team this year, let alone next season, so why would I (or anyone) think he has a spot locked up?

I was asking about *Johnson*.


^^^^

hey that looks funny ;p

Cliff Levingston is warming up to Johnson a bit more. His "tweener" status might actually be a positive thing for us as a team who looks like it's going to be a fast paced running team that likes to so small occasionally.

ICLO, it boils down to what they think they can get done with Gordon. If Pax thinks he's got a nice shot at bringing Ben back then go for Johnson, otherwise we could really use a guy like Williams or Henderson going forward.

Cliff Levingston is pretty indifferent though. He's expecting anyone we draft to be thoroughly average at best.

I will be very happy with Henderson or Johnson.

The only thing better for me would be if one of the points like Flynn or Jennings drops.

Just so no to Blair.

Cliff Levingston wrote:
ICLO, it boils down to what they think they can get done with Gordon. If Pax thinks he's got a nice shot at bringing Ben back then go for Johnson, otherwise we could really use a guy like Williams or Henderson going forward.

That's what I'm worried about. I'll be upset if we trade up and draft Henderson and say goodbye to Ben Gordon. But if we draft Johnson and keep Gordon, we're gonna be scary

I'm really warming up to Johnson. Between his potential, highlights, skills and Ralph, he just seems like he's the best basketball player for us in this draft. VDN LOVES his small ball and we could be the most athletic team in the league

Luke NOT Luc wrote:

Cliff Levingston wrote:
ICLO, it boils down to what they think they can get done with Gordon. If Pax thinks he's got a nice shot at bringing Ben back then go for Johnson, otherwise we could really use a guy like Williams or Henderson going forward.

That's what I'm worried about. I'll be upset if we trade up and draft Henderson and say goodbye to Ben Gordon. But if we draft Johnson and keep Gordon, we're gonna be scary

Do you think we will ever win a championship with Rose and Gordon as our starting backcourt? I would much rather see Gordon as our 6th man, but I don't know if that is realistic given his salary demands/market value.

ScottyKCMO wrote:

Luke NOT Luc wrote:

Cliff Levingston wrote:
ICLO, it boils down to what they think they can get done with Gordon. If Pax thinks he's got a nice shot at bringing Ben back then go for Johnson, otherwise we could really use a guy like Williams or Henderson going forward.

That's what I'm worried about. I'll be upset if we trade up and draft Henderson and say goodbye to Ben Gordon. But if we draft Johnson and keep Gordon, we're gonna be scary

Do you think we will ever win a championship with Rose and Gordon as our starting backcourt? I would much rather see Gordon as our 6th man, but I don't know if that is realistic given his salary demands/market value.

I don't think we will win a title with Rose and Henderson as our starting backcourt.

---------------------------

*IF* the Bulls:

trade two picks for one, and pick Johnson OR Henderson

don't keep Gordon


It'll be a big let down.

Cliff Levingston wrote:Cliff Levingston is warming up to Johnson a bit more. His "tweener" status might actually be a positive thing for us as a team who looks like it's going to be a fast paced running team that likes to so small occasionally.

Honestly, I don't know if my soul could bear watching the Bulls get add yet another tweener to the team. This franchise is the tweener'in'-est franchise that ever was.

ScottyKCMO wrote:
Do you think we will ever win a championship with Rose and Gordon as our starting backcourt? I would much rather see Gordon as our 6th man, but I don't know if that is realistic given his salary demands/market value.

If we have a solid front court, yes, I can see us winning with BG. Gordon's scoring is taken for granted way too often and I'm sick of it. I'm surprised every time he misses a shot. The dude's a warrior and played on a badly injured leg all doped up on drugs and was still hitting clutch threes. He's given us everything we wanted and deserves his money and deserves to be a Bull. BG is the furthest thing from our problems. If we could land a Bosh/Amare in the front court with Noah, a defensive SF with BG and Rose, I have no doubt we'd be perennial title contenders.

Dammit.

I was really hoping for Blair.

In any case, it should be Johnson first and Henderson second. I understand the need for defense, but at this point, I'd rather take a scoring forward. I wouldn't mind Henderson, but he doesn't really look like a player who will contribute as much as Johnson.

Morten Jensen wrote:Dammit.

I was really hoping for Blair.

In any case, it should be Johnson first and Henderson second. I understand the need for defense, but at this point, I'd rather take a scoring forward. I wouldn't mind Henderson, but he doesn't really look like a player who will contribute as much as Johnson.

Yeah for example if we are getting Henderson and then not getting Gordon, Blair, and Ellington - OUCH.

kyrv wrote:Yeah for example if we are getting Henderson and then not getting Gordon, Blair, and Ellington - OUCH.

C Noah/Miller
F Thomas/Noah
F Deng/Salmons
G Henderson/Salmons
G Rose/FA

'Ouch' is right, but 'motherf****** piece of s*** organization' is more like it.

kyrv wrote:

Morten Jensen wrote:Dammit.

I was really hoping for Blair.

In any case, it should be Johnson first and Henderson second. I understand the need for defense, but at this point, I'd rather take a scoring forward. I wouldn't mind Henderson, but he doesn't really look like a player who will contribute as much as Johnson.

Yeah for example if we are getting Henderson and then not getting Gordon, Blair, and Ellington - OUCH.

That's my official "Worst Case Scenario"

johnson seems to be less flawed (or without a fatal flaw, at least) than anyone available at 11 or 16 or whatever and he also seems to be as talented (if not moreso) than them too. someone dispel this notion for me so i am not too excited if he is picked or too mad when he isn't