Trade Derrick Rose

[coldfish]

and what do you think rose should do? what does he have to improve? I don't care how good of an open shot rose gives if his team mates can't shoot, no wonder he looks bad.

nash runs a better team that has a better offensive scheme. it looks better than the bulls inferior talent and scheme. who wudda thunk it?

Rose has to learn a lot of little things. Like when to go hard around a pick or when to go soft and draw out a double team to create space. He seems to often make up his mind at the beginning of a possession what he is going to do. Its like he decides:
- Pass it off to someone else
- Drive and kick
- Drive and shoot
Before he even sees the situation because a lot of the times when he makes these decisions, they aren't the right ones. He needs to attack and then decide what to do based on how the defense reacts.

He really has a lot to learn.

[Ajosu]

Quick list of players I would trade Rose for:

Roy
Durant
D Howard
Al Jefferson
Chris Paul
Carmello Anthony
Deron Williams

Also on that list
LeBron James
Chris Bosh (resigned)
Dwyane Wade (resigned)
Andrew Bynum
Kobe Bryant

I wouldn't trade for James unless he is resigned.

I left off Kobe because he'll be a FA in 2011, and with his age, I don't know if he is worth another big contract.

Bynum is impressing this year, but I'm having a hard time believing he is anywhere near this effective in a Bulls uniform.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Let's trade Noah and Rose to Detroit, so I can formally emotionally separate mind, body, soul, and fandom from this team. Would be really much more cognitively convenient.

[Ajosu]

paul could be better but i think if rose took the same jump in growth durant did, he could dominate paul in a playoff series.

You could say the same thing about Tyrus when compared to any of the great NBA pf's. If he took the next step, he could be great. The problem is, only a very few players ever take that next jump in growth. This is hardly something you can count on a player to do.

i don't know about melo. i think rose could be more of an impact player at potential than he. he can score and rebound, but rose could possibly do more.

If melo continues to mature and become a leader, he could possibly do more, too. But hey, I prefer not to play what if's. Melo is a young All-Star who has proven he is among the top 15 players in the NBA. Rose has not.

not roy

Roy has taken that next jump in development you spoke of. That very rare jump. Rose has not. At this given moment, I'll take Roy all day, and it's really not that close.

not even wade (already in his prime)

Well I don't know what else to say, unless you're reasoning is that he is a FA next year.

[BJ43]

Ben Gordon

[League Circles]

I did read. Your post is so stupid it's like if I made a post about bringing back Larry Hughes or Drew Gooden. I'm actually very surprised it wasn't locked by mods the moment it was submitted to be honest. If the Bulls had beaten the Raptors last night would you still have made this (lacking basketball common sense) thread?

Tell me which player you are thinking about under 28 that is better than Rose who is enticing for a franchise player to possibly come play with the Bulls. LeBron said the other day he'd love to play with Rose one day. Would this player too?

Why don't you go on becoming a Bucks (bandwagon) fan and please GTFO.

Listen here junior, you don't tell me to GTFO. I tell you when to speak - which is when spoken to. It's because you are a child. I started this thread to talk basketball, not to get a bunch of kids telling me I'm crazy, which is what has happened. You really have no right to speak to me so disrespectfully.

What is stupid about buying high and selling low? Because that's all I have been pondering here. You started talking about trading Rose for crap, which was specifically not what I had in mind. Had you read my words instead of just my title, you would know that.

I don't know if I would have made this thread had the Bulls won. Probably not, frankly. After a certain number of blowouts I find myself tryin gto figure out why we suck and what can be done about it. I think trading a guy who is still hyped up but may not be worth the hype a logical thing to discuss, especially because we've discussed moving other players ad nauseum over the years. Derrick Rose right now is almost certainly the player with the highest trade value we've had since Elton Brand almost 10 years ago.

The caliber of player I'm assuming we could get for Rose would be the following type of guys, but since some of them would not be desireable to trade for by themselves - it would ideally be a Rose + crap for good player + pretty good player:

Al Jefferson
Gilbert Arenas
Antawn Jamison
Rudy Gay
Vince Carter
Andrea Iguodala

Again, I'm not saying we should just trade Rose for the BPA. That would be insane. What I'm saying is that we treat him like what he is - a good player with tremendous upside who has played pretty underwhealmingly so far in his NBA career compared to how much hype he gets.

Tone down your tone, son. We don't talk to each otherr like this on this board. Maybe try espn boards or something.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think we should trade Rose/Noah/Jerome James for Al Jefferson/Jonny Flynn. Go Bulls

[League Circles]

I think we should trade Rose/Noah/Jerome James for Al Jefferson/Jonny Flynn. Go Bulls

To me Noah is more untouachable than Rose, as I think a sguy who defends the basket in much harder to find. I'd think about a Flynn/Jefferson trade for Rose, Salmons and Miller. Something liek that from a pure talent standpoint. Keep in mind I'm not so much pushing any specific trade as we all know the Bulls aren't trading their local golden cash cow. But something like this would be worth thinking about.

[BJ43]

I don't know if im reading it right, but I wouldnt trade Rose for any of these guys, even if it meant dumping Deng on another team

"Gilbert Arenas
Antawn Jamison
Rudy Gay
Vince Carter
Andrea Iguodala"

Al Jefferson I would consider but Id like to see him stay healthy and they'd have to give us back draft picks

Players I would trade Rose for right now without hesitation
- Kobe
- Wade
- Lebron - On the condition he bow down and kiss Noah's feet
- Roy
- Melo
- Paul
- D.Williams
- Bynum
- Howard
- Durant

[League Circles]

I guess the bottom line of my stance on Rose is that I'm fine being engaged to her, but there's no reason to set the wedding date just yet. I guess that's the purpose of the rookie contract. Oh well.

[SeniorWalker]

not even wade (already in his prime)

Well I don't know what else to say, unless you're reasoning is that he is a FA next year.

wade is obviously far better than rose and may be better than rose ever could be. i'll even say probably better than rose ever could be. definitely an all-league, all-time talent in my opinion. its just that he's already in the middle of his prime and made a career of bashing his body in order to get to the line. he does now have a more solid mid-range game but if he continues to produce physically as long as jordan did or maybe as kobe is doing, we'll see. his longevity is in question, i am saying. plus, if the bulls were to get lucky and actually land someone, they would still need some time to put all the pieces and system together. just adding someone, even lebron, to this mess we have right now, isn't it. and that time takes away from d-wade's prime.
(i wonder how good the bulls would be with lebron as constructed, as opposed to the cavs. because they are just awful without him)
that's why i said lebron, howard, and durant. i do like roy though. maybe i've underrated him, which im surprised i did because i've always been a huge fan of his. i also like the strides melo has made in the last 2 years but i question whether or not he could physically or mentally lead his team to the finals like kobe, wade, and lebron have already done. but i guess thats beside the point since he is a mega talent.

[j-smooth]

I have Rose colored glasses and i am happy to see i am not the only one lol. I like these topics cause they envoke very strong opinions from very dedicated Bulls Fans. Great read.

I still would not trade rose for any of the player mentions recently except for LeCryBaby (resigned), D-"poster maker" Wade(resigned) Chris "i cant guard bigger guards" Paul, Dwight "SuperDad" Howard, and Deron "CP3 AINT GOT NOTHIN ON ME" Williams.

even if these guys were available (which is they arent) i am still scared to pull the trigger.

The Bulls will be better. Vinny will be let go. And Rose will become the player we all expect him to be.

[richboy]

Derrick Rose has always been overrated as a PG. He is a unusual player because he has PG mentality but his PG skills are not special. When he looks to score he looks like he could be special. He looks like he should be trying to be a Dwade type. When he tries to play Play like a PG he showcases that he doesn't have special PG instincts.

I think blaming the teammates misses the point. Yes his teammates could be better. No question in my mind one of the reasons that the Bulls struggle on offense is because there PG doesn't do the things well that you want a PG to do. If you subbed Rose for Steve Nash you would see an instant boost in offense because Nash knows how to run an offense.

As for trading Rose. Never can happen because right now Rose has more value to the Bulls than his trade value. Only possibility would be to NO for Chris Paul if money is a factor in NO. Really if Paul was available I think Westbrook, Jennings, or Tyreke would be higher on there list.

Really there should be no surprise about Rose. He has always had a habit of completely disappearing. To me its because he goes away from his strengths. He should be attacking like I see from Wade. Like I see from Tyreke. He is closer to Monta Ellis than he is to Chris Paul. Do that and he would be 23 and 6 for years. Don't do that he will be a 17 and 7 guy who can't really run a team.

and what do you think rose should do? what does he have to improve? I don't care how good of an open shot rose gives if his team mates can't shoot, no wonder he looks bad.

nash runs a better team that has a better offensive scheme. it looks better than the bulls inferior talent and scheme. who wudda thunk it?

Nash runs a system based of his talent. His ability in things like picknroll and dribble drive. Not to mention find open players in transition. Steve Nash lost Amare, Joe Johnson, Qrich in one off season and still had the top offense in the league with Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Marion, and Raja Bell.

Rose isn't very good at picknroll. Which to me is a sure sign your not a PG. He is a better dribble drive guy but you have to be aggressive for that to be part of your game. His ability to find open guys is mediocre compared to even a starting level PG.

You make it like Rose is doing everything and guys are just not making shots. I see a team that doesn't get a lot of open shots. You get open looks in the NBA doing either or all of 3 things. Post up, dribble drive, or picknroll. 90% of offense comes from one of those. The Bulls have no one doing any of those at a high level. Rose is the only one capable of doing it. If he isn't aggressive your in trouble.

[Wharton Alum 08]

Derrick Rose has always been overrated as a PG. He is a unusual player because he has PG mentality but his PG skills are not special. When he looks to score he looks like he could be special. He looks like he should be trying to be a Dwade type. When he tries to play Play like a PG he showcases that he doesn't have special PG instincts.

I think blaming the teammates misses the point. Yes his teammates could be better. No question in my mind one of the reasons that the Bulls struggle on offense is because there PG doesn't do the things well that you want a PG to do. If you subbed Rose for Steve Nash you would see an instant boost in offense because Nash knows how to run an offense.

As for trading Rose. Never can happen because right now Rose has more value to the Bulls than his trade value. Only possibility would be to NO for Chris Paul if money is a factor in NO. Really if Paul was available I think Westbrook, Jennings, or Tyreke would be higher on there list.

Really there should be no surprise about Rose. He has always had a habit of completely disappearing. To me its because he goes away from his strengths. He should be attacking like I see from Wade. Like I see from Tyreke. He is closer to Monta Ellis than he is to Chris Paul. Do that and he would be 23 and 6 for years. Don't do that he will be a 17 and 7 guy who can't really run a team.

and what do you think rose should do? what does he have to improve? I don't care how good of an open shot rose gives if his team mates can't shoot, no wonder he looks bad.

nash runs a better team that has a better offensive scheme. it looks better than the bulls inferior talent and scheme. who wudda thunk it?

Nash runs a system based of his talent. His ability in things like picknroll and dribble drive. Not to mention find open players in transition. Steve Nash lost Amare, Joe Johnson, Qrich in one off season and still had the top offense in the league with Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Marion, and Raja Bell.

Rose isn't very good at picknroll. Which to me is a sure sign your not a PG. He is a better dribble drive guy but you have to be aggressive for that to be part of your game. His ability to find open guys is mediocre compared to even a starting level PG.

You make it like Rose is doing everything and guys are just not making shots. I see a team that doesn't get a lot of open shots. You get open looks in the NBA doing either or all of 3 things. Post up, dribble drive, or picknroll. 90% of offense comes from one of those. The Bulls have no one doing any of those at a high level. Rose is the only one capable of doing it. If he isn't aggressive your in trouble.

Then you haven't watched very many Bulls games. Rose gets guys lots of open looks on jumpers and we have no one who can knock them down on a consistent basis. John Salmons isn't a catch and shoot guy, Hinrich is hurt but wasn't effective when healthy, Pargo is hot 1 out of every 5 games, Luol is shooting well, Taj hits open jumpers occasionally, Brad Miller is not shooting well and that's the rotation.

Rose is pretty good at getting these guys looks because teams are really trying to wall him off from getting to the lane. He does of good job of finding the open man on the perimeter we just don't have the shooting to finish those plays.

[Red Larrivee]

Nash runs a system based of his talent. His ability in things like picknroll and dribble drive. Not to mention find open players in transition. Steve Nash lost Amare, Joe Johnson, Qrich in one off season and still had the top offense in the league with Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Marion, and Raja Bell.

Rose isn't very good at picknroll. Which to me is a sure sign your not a PG. He is a better dribble drive guy but you have to be aggressive for that to be part of your game. His ability to find open guys is mediocre compared to even a starting level PG.

You make it like Rose is doing everything and guys are just not making shots. I see a team that doesn't get a lot of open shots. You get open looks in the NBA doing either or all of 3 things. Post up, dribble drive, or picknroll. 90% of offense comes from one of those. The Bulls have no one doing any of those at a high level. Rose is the only one capable of doing it. If he isn't aggressive your in trouble.

Rose is actually more than decent at the pick and roll game, still needs work, but he can get it done. The problem is, there is no pick and roll game because the Bulls don't run many of them. Also, your main options on the pick and roll are Brad Miller, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Tyrus Thomas. Not exactly weapons. So in turn, Rose's game is only simplified into draw/kick in regards to passing. On the other hand, Rose doesn't show the elite ability to create space like Nash or Paul do, whom are 2 of the best passers from the PG position in the game.

I am disappointed though that Vinny hasn't decided to run more pick and roll alley oops with Rose and Noah. They've shown the ability to do it when its ran, but it hasn't shown any development towards becoming a staple. The offense overall just isn't based on utilizing the game of Rose. It's driven towards a shooting guard and small forward who can score at will and excel in ISO situations.

[Ajosu]

not even wade (already in his prime)

Well I don't know what else to say, unless you're reasoning is that he is a FA next year.

wade is obviously far better than rose and may be better than rose ever could be. i'll even say probably better than rose ever could be. definitely an all-league, all-time talent in my opinion. its just that he's already in the middle of his prime and made a career of bashing his body in order to get to the line. he does now have a more solid mid-range game but if he continues to produce physically as long as jordan did or maybe as kobe is doing, we'll see. his longevity is in question, i am saying.

I would argue that Rose becoming a franchise player is in question. But I get your point.

plus, if the bulls were to get lucky and actually land someone, they would still need some time to put all the pieces and system together. just adding someone, even lebron, to this mess we have right now, isn't it. and that time takes away from d-wade's prime.

Good point. Once we put the right pieces around someone like Wade, there is a limited window in which we have to make a championship run. I just think it is a risk worth taking.

[coldfish]

Rose is actually more than decent at the pick and roll game, still needs work, but he can get it done. The problem is, there is no pick and roll game because the Bulls don't run many of them.

What? Isn't every almost possession for a Rose a pick and roll?

He runs them poorly, for an NBA PG too. Not completely his fault because the big men suck for the most part, but when he does get good opportunities, he isn't great at taking advantage.

[sdeezy]

Rose is actually more than decent at the pick and roll game, still needs work, but he can get it done. The problem is, there is no pick and roll game because the Bulls don't run many of them.

What? Isn't every almost possession for a Rose a pick and roll?

He runs them poorly, for an NBA PG too. Not completely his fault because the big men suck for the most part, but when he does get good opportunities, he isn't great at taking advantage.

Every possession?..We rarely run high picks for him and its stupid cuz that what he's been most effective. Majority of our possessions go through Salmons and Deng coming off screens and then having a pick set for them to attack.

[bullybullz]

I did read. Your post is so stupid it's like if I made a post about bringing back Larry Hughes or Drew Gooden. I'm actually very surprised it wasn't locked by mods the moment it was submitted to be honest. If the Bulls had beaten the Raptors last night would you still have made this (lacking basketball common sense) thread?

Tell me which player you are thinking about under 28 that is better than Rose who is enticing for a franchise player to possibly come play with the Bulls. LeBron said the other day he'd love to play with Rose one day. Would this player too?

Why don't you go on becoming a Bucks (bandwagon) fan and please GTFO.

Listen here junior, you don't tell me to GTFO. I tell you when to speak - which is when spoken to. It's because you are a child. I started this thread to talk basketball, not to get a bunch of kids telling me I'm crazy, which is what has happened. You really have no right to speak to me so disrespectfully.

What is stupid about buying high and selling low? Because that's all I have been pondering here. You started talking about trading Rose for crap, which was specifically not what I had in mind. Had you read my words instead of just my title, you would know that.

I don't know if I would have made this thread had the Bulls won. Probably not, frankly. After a certain number of blowouts I find myself tryin gto figure out why we suck and what can be done about it. I think trading a guy who is still hyped up but may not be worth the hype a logical thing to discuss, especially because we've discussed moving other players ad nauseum over the years. Derrick Rose right now is almost certainly the player with the highest trade value we've had since Elton Brand almost 10 years ago.

The caliber of player I'm assuming we could get for Rose would be the following type of guys, but since some of them would not be desireable to trade for by themselves - it would ideally be a Rose + crap for good player + pretty good player:

Al Jefferson
Gilbert Arenas
Antawn Jamison
Rudy Gay
Vince Carter
Andrea Iguodala

Again, I'm not saying we should just trade Rose for the BPA. That would be insane. What I'm saying is that we treat him like what he is - a good player with tremendous upside who has played pretty underwhealmingly so far in his NBA career compared to how much hype he gets.

Tone down your tone, son. We don't talk to each otherr like this on this board. Maybe try espn boards or something.

What made you assume that I'm a kid? FYI I'm not. That bolded part confirms you are overreacting because of the loss. You were the one who said "All you losers." Talk about being a hypocrite telling me to stop being so disrespectful. Sorry I'm not respectful to those who overreact and lose common sense (Basketball wise).

Derrick Rose is still only 21 years old! Why not wait a little and see what the Bulls have in him? I still see him as a franchise player. It took awhile for Kobe to become one, Dwight Howard as well. One of the main reasons is because they are young. You have to let them develop. Rose is still developing. No way will he not improve in the future.

Jefferson is a nice player stat wise but he doesn't play defense and look at what the T-Wolves record is. They suck. He is a mini Zach Randolph.

Arenas is a risk with all those knee injuries. I believe he has had 3 knee surgeries the past 2 years.

Jamison is 33 years old. Carter is 32.How long will they last?

Gay and Iguodala are good players but not franchise players. Rose could still become one.

Rose was not expected to do so well his rookie year. Beasley was. Instead Rose surprised everyone with the amount of production. Beasley was supposed to produce a lot his rookie year but so far he has been underwhelming not Rose. You got it backwards.

Don't tell me to tone down my tone when you were the one who said "All you losers" and you admit you are overreacting because of 1 loss against the Raptors.

Now go buy some Bucks merchandise and worship Brandon Jennings.

[richboy]

Nash runs a system based of his talent. His ability in things like picknroll and dribble drive. Not to mention find open players in transition. Steve Nash lost Amare, Joe Johnson, Qrich in one off season and still had the top offense in the league with Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Marion, and Raja Bell.

Rose isn't very good at picknroll. Which to me is a sure sign your not a PG. He is a better dribble drive guy but you have to be aggressive for that to be part of your game. His ability to find open guys is mediocre compared to even a starting level PG.

You make it like Rose is doing everything and guys are just not making shots. I see a team that doesn't get a lot of open shots. You get open looks in the NBA doing either or all of 3 things. Post up, dribble drive, or picknroll. 90% of offense comes from one of those. The Bulls have no one doing any of those at a high level. Rose is the only one capable of doing it. If he isn't aggressive your in trouble.

Rose is actually more than decent at the pick and roll game, still needs work, but he can get it done. The problem is, there is no pick and roll game because the Bulls don't run many of them. Also, your main options on the pick and roll are Brad Miller, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Tyrus Thomas. Not exactly weapons. So in turn, Rose's game is only simplified into draw/kick in regards to passing. On the other hand, Rose doesn't show the elite ability to create space like Nash or Paul do, whom are 2 of the best passers from the PG position in the game.

I am disappointed though that Vinny hasn't decided to run more pick and roll alley oops with Rose and Noah. They've shown the ability to do it when its ran, but it hasn't shown any development towards becoming a staple. The offense overall just isn't based on utilizing the game of Rose. It's driven towards a shooting guard and small forward who can score at will and excel in ISO situations.

More than decent is not good enough at the NBA level. You want to be an elite team you need to be able to run or do something at a high level. You need something you can say we do as good as any of the top teams in the league.

Also I said this before. To me the picknroll is a PG play. The big that you run it with is nice but its sometimes not even important. Chris Paul could run pnr with Tyson Chandler all day because Paul will always make the correct read and make the right play.

Then you haven't watched very many Bulls games. Rose gets guys lots of open looks on jumpers and we have no one who can knock them down on a consistent basis. John Salmons isn't a catch and shoot guy, Hinrich is hurt but wasn't effective when healthy, Pargo is hot 1 out of every 5 games, Luol is shooting well, Taj hits open jumpers occasionally, Brad Miller is not shooting well and that's the rotation.

Rose is pretty good at getting these guys looks because teams are really trying to wall him off from getting to the lane. He does of good job of finding the open man on the perimeter we just don't have the shooting to finish those plays.

I've seen plenty of Bulls games and games all over the league. In my opinion the Bulls compared to most teams get far less open shots than most teams I've seen. I'll say it this way. The Bulls are one of the worst teams at getting the shot they want out of there offense. Remember just because someone is open doesn't make it a good shot. Many defenses are set up to give open looks to certain players..