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Trade Derrick Rose

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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#281 » by bullybullz » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:42 am

Rerisen wrote:One thing Derrick is having problems with this year is turnovers. Part of it may be trying to be more aggressive. Part of it may be the stiffer defenses and lack of spacing, etc. Such that when people say things about "better ball movement" they don't realize that each extra pass made within a bad offense is a chance for the defense to get a steal, for it to go over someone's head or out of bounds. And those things are happening more this year.

Hinrich's turnovers are up as well. This is what a offense that struggles to score will produce.


I believe part of it was Rose's ankle injury. If you look at many of his turnovers, he hasn't been able to plant his foot properly probably a result of the bum ankle.

If he continues to turn the ball over at an alarming rate for the next 20-25 games I agree that the lack of spacing is hurting him. Don't always set screens for Rose Vinny!!! He can go to the rim without it and finish! More iso's for Rose.
Get rid of Bum Gordon(DONE DONE DONE!!!!!!!!!!) and Andres Sucioni(DONE!!)

Rerisen wrote:Gordon really good at acting like he is about to lose the ball to bait defenders into fouls. At least that's one way to look at it.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#282 » by Pedro Pistolas » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:27 pm

IDK , I don't see superstar in Derrick Rose....his makeup doesn't lead me to believe he'll become one. He's a good player no doubt about it , but I haven't been too impressed with him so far.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#283 » by Rapsobsessed7 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:46 pm

raptors will give you Calderon or Jack + Bargnani + Belinelli + anything else you want (outside of bosh) but a bargnani/noah front court is perfect IMO but what would you want to pair rose here in TO with bosh?
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#284 » by kyrv » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:50 pm

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:raptors will give you Calderon or Jack + Bargnani + Belinelli + anything else you want (outside of bosh) but a bargnani/noah front court is perfect IMO but what would you want to pair rose here in TO with bosh?


I would not - I'll take Rose and Bosh here though. ;)

This is typical though - we pine post-Jordan, for many years, for a player who might actually become an all-star. We get one, he's not perfect enough. :lol:
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#285 » by Shill » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:35 am

This thread fails with ruthlessness.
Scottie Pippen's response to whom he would pick for his running mate, Michael or LeBron: "That's a dumbass question. I've never done anything with LeBron. I wouldn't take LeBron to the movies."
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#286 » by Mapelgleaf » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:44 am

Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:This thread fails with ruthlessness.


+1 Good Bump. Sorry guys - you need your faces rubbed in this. :nonono:
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#287 » by j-smooth » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:44 am

I've always had faith that Derrick would break through his slump and he has. Its always good to look back and laugh.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#288 » by boogernights » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:59 am

Let's trade him for Brandon Jennings or Tyreke Evans!!!
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#289 » by Three34 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:54 am

Rejoice, Chicago. After last night's performance, Derrick Rose finally became a more efficient scorer than Damien Wilkins. Up to 158th in the league in true shooting percentage! Yeah boy!!!! How about that!!!! Go to the true shooting percentage for all qualified players, find Brandon Rush and Andres Nocioni, and look UP UP UP!!!! Yeahhhhhh, rub that all around our faces. We need to suffer for our sins.

Rooooooo-sey! Roooooooo-sey!!! :rock:
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#290 » by da mayor » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:00 am

Sham wrote:Rejoice, Chicago. After last night's performance, Derrick Rose finally became a more efficient scorer than Damien Wilkins. Up to 158th in the league in true shooting percentage! Yeah boy!!!! How about that!!!! Go to the true shooting percentage for all qualified players, find Brandon Rush and Andres Nocioni, and look UP UP UP!!!! Yeahhhhhh, rub that all around our faces. We need to suffer for our sins.

Rooooooo-sey! Roooooooo-sey!!! :rock:


Only mongos would use a gimmick stat headlined by a bunch of bums as a reference.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#291 » by Three34 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:07 am

If you're a score first player, like Rose is, is it important to score efficiently?
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#292 » by Hold That » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:14 pm

Sham wrote:Rejoice, Chicago. After last night's performance, Derrick Rose finally became a more efficient scorer than Damien Wilkins. Up to 158th in the league in true shooting percentage! Yeah boy!!!! How about that!!!! Go to the true shooting percentage for all qualified players, find Brandon Rush and Andres Nocioni, and look UP UP UP!!!! Yeahhhhhh, rub that all around our faces. We need to suffer for our sins.

Rooooooo-sey! Roooooooo-sey!!! :rock:


Kinda hard to be extremely efficient when you play on a team that has no legit scoring threats outside of Luol Deng. No three point shooters to spread the floor and no post presence to speak of. Stats are nice and all but people often fail to use common sense when their are other players on the court who help superstars to get those beautiful TS% or PER's and be efficient.

When your team is looking for you to score, and nobody else there to help you out while you're getting double teamed, how efficient can you be? He can get to the line more but at the same time, he doesnt get enough calls, and nobody there to spread the floor to give him more driving lanes to do so.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#293 » by Three34 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:25 pm

Or maybe it's because he's a mid range whore with no three point shot and an inability to draw fouls. Changing Luol Deng for Peja Stojakovic won't change that.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#294 » by Gray Poster » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:29 pm

Sham wrote:Rejoice, Chicago. After last night's performance, Derrick Rose finally became a more efficient scorer than Damien Wilkins. Up to 158th in the league in true shooting percentage! Yeah boy!!!! How about that!!!! Go to the true shooting percentage for all qualified players, find Brandon Rush and Andres Nocioni, and look UP UP UP!!!! Yeahhhhhh, rub that all around our faces. We need to suffer for our sins.

Rooooooo-sey! Roooooooo-sey!!! :rock:


Where's Ben Gordon on that list???
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#295 » by Three34 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:34 pm

He's not, because he hasn't played enough to qualify for the scoring title. But if we were to include all players this season, including the non-qualifiers - which means Ryan Bowen and Trey Gilder will be #1 and #2 in the league even though neither is in it any more - Ben Gordon is 139th out of 422. Derrick Rose is 272nd.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#296 » by TheAdmiral » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:36 pm

Mapelgleaf wrote:
Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:This thread fails with ruthlessness.


+1 Good Bump. Sorry guys - you need your faces rubbed in this. :nonono:


This.
D-31 wrote:again..all of u Jordan fans are caught up in his scoring accolades and fail to realize that he was a lousy basketball player.

Jordan never fully understood basketball. He had the lowest basketball IQ of any NBA "superstar" in history.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#297 » by coldfish » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:25 pm

coldfish wrote:Random comments:
- There have been a small number of people here who have pointed out Derrick's flaws since the beginning. At times, those people were e-shouted down and labeled haters. Now it seems that more people are seeing these flaws and quite frankly, are overreacting. Derrick's problems now are no different than his issues last year or even in college.
- If anything, that's my biggest problem with Derrick. He hasn't improved much. I don't know who his personal advisors are, but they haven't helped him much. I remember seeing offseason workout videos where Derrick was working on alley oop dunks and putbacks. Hopefully that was just a small practice highlight video and not his routine. I really don't think he is lazy, it just seems that he doesn't know how to improve. Someone really smart needs to sit down with Derrick and tell him how to become an effective NBA player. I don't even mean the big stuff, but the little things that fans don't even discuss, like footwork.
- All that being said, I always said in DWade threads that if you get DWade, you try to trade Rose for an elite big. I stand by that and now people may be getting the reason why.
- In summary, the Bulls shouldn't even consider dumping Rose. What they should do is completely re-think how they are handling him and how they are stocking the team. Derrick isn't a half court player and it seems that JR specifically wants to see a half court, defense first grind it out team.

The biggest difference, IMO, in the team that I see is that they tried to slow the pace and pack it in to improve the defense and the rebounding. It worked at first, really well actually, but now it isn't. They basically sacrificed offense for defense and ended up with neither.

If I was Vinny, I would ignore management and go back to the run, run, run team of last year. Remember, post trade the Bulls won games by an average of 110 to 102 or something. Now they can't score 90. Giving up 20 on offense isn't all Gordon. Vinny: "Listen JR, I tried it your way. It didn't work. I know you are going to fire me soon, so I'm not even going to listen to you. If I am going out, its going to be my way and that's to push the ball."

Bulls pace this year is 90.9 or 26th in the NBA
Last year 93.1 or 10th in NBA.


Well, if we are going to rub things in people's faces, I'll point out that:
- Since this post was made, the Bulls jacked up their pace a lot. They are now 13th in the NBA for the season and have been playing at a top 10 pace for a month. That helped.
- Vinny finally talked to Derrick about free throws and Derrick listened.

Derrick still needs to work on a 3 point shot, his defense, his passing and his ability to draw fouls. However, he has noticeably worked on his one biggest concern for being a star, which was his aggressiveness. It doesn't matter what skills you have if you won't use them. To that end, I think the Bulls accidentally did Derrick a favor by creating such a bad team around Rose. They put him in a position where if he doesn't play hard and play well all game long, the Bulls are going to get destroyed.

IMO, there are multiple things important to getting a star next offseason. One of the biggest if getting Derrick to the point where stars want to play with him. That all star spot for Derrick is sooooo important in this regard.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#298 » by Hold That » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:27 pm

Sham wrote:Or maybe it's because he's a mid range whore with no three point shot and an inability to draw fouls. Changing Luol Deng for Peja Stojakovic won't change that.



So what is he suppose to do when he's getting open looks from the midrange? When defenders are sagging 6 feet off of him? Not take the jumper? Dive into an already packed lane? He's playing smart, simply put he just needs to learn how to draw fouls, then he'll increase your holy grail of a stat they call TS%.. And how can't a three point shooter on this team not help him drive to the paint more? Defenders are clogging the painting doubling him at the three point line, doing everything to get the ball out of his hands or stopping him from driving. Are we not watching the same games? Do people not notice how other teams defend Rose?

But seriously then you'll start complaining about something else, I've yet to see you find something good in D.Rose. Honestly, maybe you are fond of him, but you just like to be negative to just stand amongst the people you constantly praise him. That has always appeared to be your personality, not a shot just an observation.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#299 » by Three34 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:30 pm

In purely relative terms, I am a Rose hater. But those "purely relative" terms involve speaking in forums full of people with monikers like Poohdini. Rose has star potential because he is very, very, very good at what he does. But he does not have superstar potential because there's too much he can't do.
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Re: Trade Derrick Rose 

Post#300 » by Hold That » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:35 pm

Sham wrote:In purely relative terms, I am a Rose hater. But those "purely relative" terms involve speaking in forums full of people with monikers like Poohdini. Rose has star potential because he is very, very, very good at what he does. But he does not have superstar potential because there's too much he can't do.

I never called you a Rose hater, I said you are probably fond of him but you constantly bash him. Honestly I've hardly ever see you come in here and give the guy any kind of praise. Rather I often always see you comming into a thread, posting stats and saying "but Rose isn't that good according to this stat......"

Honestly I could care less who hates Rose on this board or who doesn't think he'll be a superstar. Every player needs it's haters/doubters to give them motivation, so you are needed. Just like that ESPN journalist who hated on Durant, before the season started with those +/- stats, he was needed. I'm sure Durant was in the gym working his but off with him in mind..

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