Trade Derrick Rose

[derf]

The Bulls would never consider trading A rookie contract for an established player on an expensive deal. It doesn't fit their business model.

They would only consider something along the lines of Brand/ Chandler. A deal like that involving Noah or Rose for a top 5 pick could "make" the team an extra 20 - 30 mil. I think we all understand that Tyrus is being shopped for a pick + expirings right now. Sadly I think the Bulls will settle for a little cap relief, say 2 mil or so for the Thomas contract.

Look to the past if you want to know what they would be willing to consider in the future. The pattern is undeniable.

Be careful what you wish for.

[DuckIII]

I've kind of stopped caring about this team in a hurry. We suck and I'm tryin gto become a Bucks fan, which may or may not take. I've always lived in Wisconsin, like Skiles, and Brandon Jennings is good.

Promise?

[dougthonus]

But Jennings mentality is actually the right one for this team, the Bulls, right now. Because we have no other talented offensive players. It's almost pointless to pass another player the ball if they aren't in position to shoot. Because they can't do anything with it. Esp with Salmons stinking it up.

Instead that is all that ever happens. Rose passes to skilless teammates and then goes and stands in the corner or runs like an automaton through his routes, never looking to, nor getting the ball back.

Just what we need is a guy with a sub 50% TS% dominating the ball because the other options aren't good enough.

[princeofpalace]

But Jennings mentality is actually the right one for this team, the Bulls, right now. Because we have no other talented offensive players. It's almost pointless to pass another player the ball if they aren't in position to shoot. Because they can't do anything with it. Esp with Salmons stinking it up.

Instead that is all that ever happens. Rose passes to skilless teammates and then goes and stands in the corner or runs like an automaton through his routes, never looking to, nor getting the ball back.

Just what we need is a guy with a sub 50% TS% dominating the ball because the other options aren't good enough.

Brandon Jennings TS- .51
Derrick Rose TS- .49

Jennings has simply been better than Rose at every aspect of the game this season IMO and has an even worse roster.

[The Force.]

The heat went 15-67 with Wade putting up 24-7-4. Sure he wasn't 100% that year but the Heat certainly had a team comparable to this current Bulls squad in terms of talent.

Point being, there's no reason to hit the panic button on Rose. He's still not playing at full strength and his teammates are CBA status.

[The Force.]

But Jennings mentality is actually the right one for this team, the Bulls, right now. Because we have no other talented offensive players. It's almost pointless to pass another player the ball if they aren't in position to shoot. Because they can't do anything with it. Esp with Salmons stinking it up.

Instead that is all that ever happens. Rose passes to skilless teammates and then goes and stands in the corner or runs like an automaton through his routes, never looking to, nor getting the ball back.

Just what we need is a guy with a sub 50% TS% dominating the ball because the other options aren't good enough.

Brandon Jennings TS- .51
Derrick Rose TS- .49

Jennings has simply been better than Rose at every aspect of the game this season IMO and has an even worse roster.

In his last 7 games Jennings has put up a stat line of: 15-6-3 FG% .30
Not saying he isn't a great player, but teams are figuring him out and he appears to be struggling just as much (if not more) than Rose.

[CjayC]

Alright I'm done overreacting. This team is hard to watch. That is all

[JordansBulls]

The Bulls would never consider trading A rookie contract for an established player on an expensive deal. It doesn't fit their business model.

They would only consider something along the lines of Brand/ Chandler. A deal like that involving Noah or Rose for a top 5 pick could "make" the team an extra 20 - 30 mil. I think we all understand that Tyrus is being shopped for a pick + expirings right now. Sadly I think the Bulls will settle for a little cap relief, say 2 mil or so for the Thomas contract.

Look to the past if you want to know what they would be willing to consider in the future. The pattern is undeniable.

Be careful what you wish for.

This is pretty much on target.

[League Circles]

How do some of you guys survive in everyday life/the real world with all these overreactions? Seriously some of you need a new hobby because it seems to take a toll. Relax. The season is a marathon not a sprint. If the Bulls trade Rose for crap, why would anyone want to sign with the Bulls?

With Rose the Bulls have an enticing piece a franchise player would be interested in as he is so unselfish(sometimes too unselfish) but he will learn as he is still very young. He has the opposite problem Michael Jordan had early in their careers. Michael wanted to dominate and will his team to victory when in reality he had to share the ball more/become unselfish for the ultimate prize.

Again I say if the Bulls get rid of Rose why would any player want to sign with this teams? Some of the common sense is severely lacking basketball wise when people resort to overreacting. Calm down. Seriously.

Learn to read - that could be your new hobby. I don't think anyone including myself suggested that we trade Rose for crap. I suggested that if we can trade Rose for a player better than he is who is under 28 we should do it because Rose isn't looking like a special tier 1 player.

[League Circles]

this thread is stupid

Your face is stupid.

[League Circles]

derrick rose on this team is like jimmy johnson in a beamer. the driver can only do so much, eventually you need a better car

Bam. The only analogy needed in this thread.

I didn't write that post, so don't quote my name associating me with it. If you don't know how to edit when you use the quote function ask a mod.

[League Circles]

expecting derrick to look like a superstar is a catch-22. a point guard looks good when he is a great playmaker, but hes creating shots for people who cant hit them! how can a shot maker look good for people who cant hit shots

Yeah I'm an ass so I'm going to call you out for saying expecting derrick to be a superstar is a "catch 22". I think i see what you're trying to say but thats not what a catch 22 means.

Anyways, so on to the point of this thread: the possibility of trading derrick shouldnt be automatically rejected. As of right now derrick isnt much more than a ball of potential, which may or may not be realized. While most of us bulls fans, including myself, think he'll eventually be a star, there's no guarantee he'll be a top tier player. Say we could get CP3 for rose, salmons jj and a first, I would definitely do it. More realistically, it should be worth considering trading him in the summer in a sign and trade for a proven first/second team all NBA player such as Bosh.

i know the general response will be "oh he's a 2nd year player..hes was injured..you cant expect him to lead when he's so young," but I have a lot of trouble believing that people aren't worried about his slow start. In almost all statistical categories derrick has regressed since last year. One of the weirdest things on this board is how people here clamor about derrick's improved jumper--i really dont see it. I think his midrange shot was underrated last year and is overrated this year. According to 82games.com last year 60% of derricks shots last year were jumpers and he shot them at a eFG of 41.9%. This year 70% of his shots are jumpers and he shoots them at a eFG of 40.5%. People can debate about his range being slightly further out, but we can all agree its not at the three point line, so his "improvement" in his jumper has really only shown itself by having derrick pull up from 20 feet instead of 18--basically a worthless achievement until the jumper becomes a 3 point shot. Even such, I wouldnt have minded his lack of improved efficiency on jumpers if his willingness to take longer shots helped his efficiency and regularity of driving shots, but that isnt the case. He shoots close shots both less often and at a worse rate than last year.

Now i know im just ranting and i doubt anyone takes me seriously but i really think that its naive to call Derrick an untouchable. Derick may have more physical potential than most point guards in the league but as of now derrick is an average starting point guard, and it tough to unbiasedly assume that Derrick will be special. Today, its tough to see why derrick is \ assumed to grow better than people like Flynn, Westbrook, Harris, Jennings etc. I mean really, people need to think of how good derrick can be comparatively to other players at his position. I assume most think he has top 5 point guard potential at his peak, and hell, maybe he'll be #1. But still there's just as good of a possibility he'll only ever be the q1th best pg in the league. Thus, its worth considering trading him for a established top 5 like bosh.

In creating a basketball team most people hope for a championship, thus enforcing the idea that idea that riskier investments in potential superstars are better that sure bets on good players. To an extent I agree with this, the home run ball is what we hope for. That, why we drafted Tyrus; that's why teams are so unwilling to give top draft slots. The problem in all of is that its almost always difficult to determine if youve hit a home run or not. Bulls fans, in general, thought derrick was going to be a sure thing after last year, and now we're seeing that may not be the case. He's definitly good, but maybe not that good. Losing the spacing Gordon gave us last year no doubt hurts Rose's game, but still, simply put, thats no excuse for derrick averaging 15 3 and 5 on poor efficiency. If the bulls can trade a potential top 10 player for an proven top 10 player it shouldnt be thought of a waste of an investment but rather a successful utilization of our assets.

Ballboy, I appreciate your thoughts as they are on line with what I'm thinking to an extent, but please don't quote me on things I did not write. If you don't know how to use the quote function ask a mod.

[League Circles]

All you losers who claim this is overreaction and that trading Rose is the last thing we should do - what makes you think that? It's like the Bulls are just wrapping your genitals up for you with their "Rose is from Chicago and a great kid" mantra.

Rose is more explosive than any PG I see playing in the league. He's also a very good finisher.

Those two things are the only damn things he does well in this game.

But this thread, as I said, was never meant to be about Rose and his strengths or shortcomings. It' all about how overvalued he must be right now because GMs are just as stupid as a lot of fans. They saw the highlights, they saw the #1 pick associated with his name, they saw the ROY award. Those things mean something now. In 2 or 3 years they won't.

Part of what drove me to write this thread also is my forever standing belief that the "PG" position is VASTLY overrated. Since I started following NBA ball at about age 10, I'm not sure there has been a PG who I'd consider a top 5 player. That's almost 20 years FYI. I'd think the Bulls, of all teams, would recognize this after winning 6 titles without even playing a "PG".

It's entirely possible that after full evaluation of the NBA's 30 teams, I'd decide there is no one realistic to trade for that I'd want to. Still, though, Rose's untouchable status on this board is laughable.

The ONLY reason I want to consider trading Rose is because I think he's closer to overrated than any of our players. It's a simple math problem. I do, however, realize that the Bulls are very likely to hold onto him for quite a while do to him being from Chicago and Bulls fans in Chicago apparently being romanced by that.

[Wharton Alum 08]

I think this thread is pretty worthless. Derrick Rose started the season injured. Had he not been injured early on this thread probably wouldn't exist because he would be somewhere around 19&6 but the injury set him back, I don't think Rose has regressed, It took him a while to round back into form the past two games Rose has played bad, so what our team is flawed. Over his last 9 games Rose is averaging 18 &5 on 47% shooting from the field.

Rose is underrated as a passer because his assist numbers aren't great but you can't create things that aren't there for Rose to get assist we have to hit jumpers when our team hits jumpers his assist numbers are up. Sure I want to see Derrick's assist numbers rise but I can look no further than the Cleveland game and see what happens when a big can hit shots off the pick & roll which Gibson did and Rose had one of the easiest 7 assist games I've ever seen. Just on Gibson having a career night on wide open 15 footers I can only imagine what that would look like on nightly basis with a Boozer,West,Amare,Bosh, even Nene.

Conversely I would love to see Rose somewhere else because I'm a fan of Rose's and he truly has one of the worst supporting cast for a player of his skill set. I look at almost every other team in the league and I feel Rose would be a better fit than where he is now. We have no legit post presence, Noah is good for what he is a hustle guy and rebound but he can't score on the block nor contain the other teams big. Miller is old and slow and has no post game and neither do Taj or Tyrus.

Just look around Rose would fit well in Indiana playing pick and pop with Troy Murphy who is four who can step out and spread the floor, and Hibbert has more post game than Noah, and that's leaving Granger out the equation totally.

Milwaukee playing with Bogut who at least can command a double on the block and shooters like Ilyasova on the wings.

Detroit would be better off with Rose a pure PG with all the scoring they have in Charlie V and BG and Rip on the wing with Rose content to feed those guys he would put up 15&9 or 10 on 50% shooting.

Just go to Boston you don't think Rose would thrive on kick outs to Allen or playing pick and pop with KG.

Toronto with Bosh and Rose, Derozen, Hedo, would be Rose's dream team.

Even Philly with ailing Brand, I think Rose would help his game today and vice-versa on the block and Kapono on the wing would probably be a more attractive place for Rose right now and help him flourish

I could go on and on but almost every other team in the league is a better fit for Rose than what we have here with no shooters and no post presence.

So yes trade Rose, I'd love to see it, this team is crap and with nobody that can get an interior bucket and nobody that can hit a 3 people feel as if Rose is somehow going to make this guys better. It's not possible.

[League Circles]

I think this thread is pretty worthless. Derrick Rose started the season injured. Had he not been injured early on this thread probably wouldn't exist because he would be somewhere around 19&6 but the injury set him back, I don't think Rose has regressed, It took him a while to round back into form the past two games Rose has played bad, so what our team is flawed. Over his last 9 games Rose is averaging 18 &5 on 47% shooting from the field.

Rose is underrated as a passer because his assist numbers aren't great but you can't create things that aren't there for Rose to get assist we have to hit jumpers when our team hits jumpers his assist numbers are up. Sure I want to see Derrick's assist numbers rise but I can look no further than the Cleveland game and see what happens when a big can hit shots off the pick & roll which Gibson did and Rose had one of the easiest 7 assist games I've ever seen. Just on Gibson having a career night on wide open 15 footers I can only imagine what that would look like on nightly basis with a Boozer,West,Amare,Bosh, even Nene.

Conversely I would love to see Rose somewhere else because I'm a fan of Rose's and he truly has one of the worst supporting cast for a player of his skill set. I look at almost every other team in the league and I feel Rose would be a better fit than where he is now. We have no legit post presence, Noah is good for what he is a hustle guy and rebound but he can't score on the block nor contain the other teams big. Miller is old and slow and has no post game and neither do Taj or Tyrus.

Just look around Rose would fit well in Indiana playing pick and pop with Troy Murphy who is four who can step out and spread the floor, and Hibbert has more post game than Noah, and that's leaving Granger out the equation totally.

Milwaukee playing with Bogut who at least can command a double on the block and shooters like Ilyasova on the wings.

Detroit would be better off with Rose a pure PG with all the scoring they have in Charlie V and BG and Rip on the wing with Rose content to feed those guys he would put up 15&9 or 10 on 50% shooting.

Just go to Boston you don't think Rose would thrive on kick outs to Allen or playing pick and pop with KG.

Toronto with Bosh and Rose, Derozen, Hedo, would be Rose's dream team.

Even Philly with ailing Brand, I think Rose would help his game today and vice-versa on the block and Kapono on the wing would probably be a more attractive place for Rose right now and help him flourish

I could go on and on but almost every other team in the league is a better fit for Rose than what we have here with no shooters and no post presence.

So yes trade Rose, I'd love to see it, this team is crap and with nobody that can get an interior bucket and nobody that can hit a 3 people feel as if Rose is somehow going to make this guys better. It's not possible.

Well, over his last 5 games he's averaging his season averages, which suck.

Your post makes the argument to trade Rose sound better, not worse. If he'd be worth more to other teams than to us, why not trade him?

[Wharton Alum 08]

I think this thread is pretty worthless. Derrick Rose started the season injured. Had he not been injured early on this thread probably wouldn't exist because he would be somewhere around 19&6 but the injury set him back, I don't think Rose has regressed, It took him a while to round back into form the past two games Rose has played bad, so what our team is flawed. Over his last 9 games Rose is averaging 18 &5 on 47% shooting from the field.

Rose is underrated as a passer because his assist numbers aren't great but you can't create things that aren't there for Rose to get assist we have to hit jumpers when our team hits jumpers his assist numbers are up. Sure I want to see Derrick's assist numbers rise but I can look no further than the Cleveland game and see what happens when a big can hit shots off the pick & roll which Gibson did and Rose had one of the easiest 7 assist games I've ever seen. Just on Gibson having a career night on wide open 15 footers I can only imagine what that would look like on nightly basis with a Boozer,West,Amare,Bosh, even Nene.

Conversely I would love to see Rose somewhere else because I'm a fan of Rose's and he truly has one of the worst supporting cast for a player of his skill set. I look at almost every other team in the league and I feel Rose would be a better fit than where he is now. We have no legit post presence, Noah is good for what he is a hustle guy and rebound but he can't score on the block nor contain the other teams big. Miller is old and slow and has no post game and neither do Taj or Tyrus.

Just look around Rose would fit well in Indiana playing pick and pop with Troy Murphy who is four who can step out and spread the floor, and Hibbert has more post game than Noah, and that's leaving Granger out the equation totally.

Milwaukee playing with Bogut who at least can command a double on the block and shooters like Ilyasova on the wings.

Detroit would be better off with Rose a pure PG with all the scoring they have in Charlie V and BG and Rip on the wing with Rose content to feed those guys he would put up 15&9 or 10 on 50% shooting.

Just go to Boston you don't think Rose would thrive on kick outs to Allen or playing pick and pop with KG.

Toronto with Bosh and Rose, Derozen, Hedo, would be Rose's dream team.

Even Philly with ailing Brand, I think Rose would help his game today and vice-versa on the block and Kapono on the wing would probably be a more attractive place for Rose right now and help him flourish

I could go on and on but almost every other team in the league is a better fit for Rose than what we have here with no shooters and no post presence.

So yes trade Rose, I'd love to see it, this team is crap and with nobody that can get an interior bucket and nobody that can hit a 3 people feel as if Rose is somehow going to make this guys better. It's not possible.

Well, over his last 5 games he's averaging his season averages, which suck.

Your post makes the argument to trade Rose sound better, not worse. If he'd be worth more to other teams than to us, why not trade him?

Which is why I would love to see Rose somewhere else, as I stated above. And his last 2 games he didn't even play the 2nd half of the games because the crappy Bulls stink. I'm sure he could have gotten 20 points last night had he played the 3rd and 4th quarter, or if Vinny hadn't quit in the 3rd in Cleveland he would be above average so what's the point?

What are you going to get in return for Rose? Really? He's on a rookie contract so something else would be packaged with him so how is this going to benefit the team? You say anybody under 28 better but who? You've named no names or anything. This thread is weak.

The team won't get any better unless you get a post presence greater than or equal to Rose to pair with Rose. Along with some shooters.

[princeofpalace]

I

Detroit would be better off with Rose a pure PG with all the scoring they have in Charlie V and BG and Rip on the wing with Rose content to feed those guys he would put up 15&9 or 10 on 50% shooting.
.

For this year atleast, I'd take Stuckey over Rose.

Pistons actually have less offense than Chicago due to the injuries. Somebody needs to score and although Stuckey has at times been terrible, Id rather he try to put the team in the back than wait around and let someone else fail at it.

Also, Stuckey has been very good defensively and once again Rose has been bad.

Rose has more upside, but this season Stuckey and a slew of other guards have been better.

and Stuckey has looked like he's finally been putting it together in his last 10 games

19,1 PPG/4.8 Assists/3.9 boards/42% FG

Again, not saying Stuckey is better prospect than Rose but atleast thus far this season, I prefer to Stuckey to Rose for the Pistons

[j-smooth]

You all have made very vaild points. From all i have ready i believe the best answer is to wait for these reasons:

1. Derrick is not the focal point of this offense.
2. A PG is suppose to be an extenion of the Coach. He is suppose to be the coach on the floor. When your coach regulates you to being a bystander in an offense run for your wing players you cant expect much from your PG.
3. Derrick, with the exception of the last 2 games has been averaging 18pts 5ast and 4rebos on 49% shooting. He is becoming the player we are expecting he will be.
4. Everyone needs to remember that you cant build a team around one player in a year and 3 months. You gotta give them time.
5. Vinny has benched Derrick for the 4th quarter for 2 straight games. I'm sure if Vinny didnt give up on his team after 3 quarters everyone would be fine with Rose.
6. Rose has played less than 30 minutes the last 2 games where his numbers have dropped. Imagine if he played 35-38 minutes? I am Sure he would be at 19pts 7ast and everyone would not be over reacting like they are right now.
7. I see no problem with Roses game. He is getting people open shots, taking the ball in hard to the hoop, and is looking like the old Rsoe. He creates, he might not be as fancy as CP3 or Nash, but he gets people open shots. The other pussi3s on this team just cant hit.
8. Trading Rose is not the answer, we lucked out on that draft and got the BEST PLAYER in that draft.
9. The problem with the Bulls start at management like everyone has mentioned, but i believe pax should man up and come down to coach this team. Vinny needs to be fired because it seems he doesnt understand what kind of players he has. Management had to talk to vinny about playing JJ.
10. It is still early in the season. 25% finished. Its a marathon not a sprint like another poster said.

All in all I firmly believe that Vinny del Negro needs to be fired. It is obvious he does not know his personel or how to use the players he has. Management, as bad as its been, needs to find ways to unload Deng and Hinrich for expirings. If we are truly going to build this team around Rose, which we should, we need a purge.

Rose needs coach to tell him what to do. He needs a coach to push him til he is able to push himself. Deron has Sloan, Wade had Riley, CP3 had Byron. All these great players have/had coaches that were experienced and knew how to better utilize a star guard.

I believe Rose is a star in this league but until you gets a better coach and a better team he wont thrive. Even with the players on the team, a coach that forces rose to have the ball 80-90% of every possesion is a better offense than what we have now. I thought Vinny was going to bring in a suns style offense ala Nash has the ball in his hands 80% of the time. He didnt. Vinny has worn out his welcome in chicago.

Building a team takes baby steps. We took a large step by getting Rose, now management needs a coach that realizes what Rose brings to the table, and utilizes his gifts...........God help us.........

[Red Larrivee]

If he'd be worth more to other teams than to us, why not trade him?

He's worth more to us than other teams. Seriously, this is getting pretty bad.

[DuckIII]

All you losers

Come one man, that's not necessary. Don't you have a Bucks game to watch or something?