McGraw: Coaching change doesn't appear imminent

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I don't think the Bulls have given up on VDN nor do I think any of this is his fault. Reinsdorf has ruined this organization, completely ran it into the ground. When BG came back to the Bulls and said he would go ahead and take the offer, Reinsdorf told him it was no longer on the table.

You neglected to mention that the Bulls had set a deadline on the offer and that Ben came back after the deadline expired, but don't let that get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

[coldfish]

I don't think the Bulls have given up on VDN nor do I think any of this is his fault. Reinsdorf has ruined this organization, completely ran it into the ground. When BG came back to the Bulls and said he would go ahead and take the offer, Reinsdorf told him it was no longer on the table.

You neglected to mention that the Bulls had set a deadline on the offer and that Ben came back after the deadline expired, but don't let that get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

Is the deadline supposed to be a defense of Bulls management?

"If you don't sign this below market contract by this arbitrary deadline, we will cut off one of our own fingers!!! Don't push us!! We are serious!!! We aren't screwing around here Ben! We'll show you who is boss. We might even cut off a foot too."

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I don't think the Bulls have given up on VDN nor do I think any of this is his fault. Reinsdorf has ruined this organization, completely ran it into the ground. When BG came back to the Bulls and said he would go ahead and take the offer, Reinsdorf told him it was no longer on the table.

You neglected to mention that the Bulls had set a deadline on the offer and that Ben came back after the deadline expired, but don't let that get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

Is the deadline supposed to be a defense of Bulls management?

"If you don't sign this below market contract by this arbitrary deadline, we will cut off one of our own fingers!!! Don't push us!! We are serious!!! We aren't screwing around here Ben!"

What it is is an important part of the negotiations. You can be pissed that it existed, but lets not act like it wasn't there and that Ben didn't know about it. People that are pissed that Jerry didn't allow Ben to sign after the deadline are off base anyways - the whole point is that some time during that summer the Bulls decided they didn't want him. They were probably thrilled that he let the deadline pass. So if someone is going to be pissed about something - be pissed that the Bulls personell evaluation allowed them to believe Ben wasn't worth it. Not that they imposed a deadline and stuck to it.

[Neusch23]

I can't see him letting Vinny go, and then have to bring in an interium coach.

Unless you have a chance to land a really good coach, I say don't do it.

[coldfish]

What it is is an important part of the negotiations. You can be pissed that it existed, but lets not act like it wasn't there and that Ben didn't know about it. People that are pissed that Jerry didn't allow Ben to sign after the deadline are off base anyways - the whole point is that some time during that summer the Bulls decided they didn't want him. They were probably thrilled that he let the deadline pass. So if someone is going to be pissed about something - be pissed that the Bulls personell evaluation allowed them to believe Ben wasn't worth it. Not that they imposed a deadline and stuck to it.

OK, so as long as people say that the Bulls mishandled the Gordon situation, you are fine with that? Aren't you just arguing semantics?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Like I said before, this really isnt Vinny's fault.

If we had a full healthy squad and the team continues to play like this, then its all on Vinny.

But before everyone started dropping like flys, the Bulls were a good team.

Bulls were 4-2 before Tyrus went down
and Bulls were 6-5 before Kirk went down

Bulls are 3-10 since Tyrus has been out.

and Bulls are now 1-7 since they both have been out.

So early samples say that Bulls are a decent team when everyone is healthy.

And extremely bad team when not healthy.

Now if you are moving Vinny because you believe another coach can

-Get more out of Derrick and put the rest of the team in line.

Then I agree with moving Vinny. But right now I dont blame the record on Vinny.

[anorexorcism]

Seriously, how long will some fans continue to toe the company line? Is this current play not proof enough of how this philosophy of arbitrary deadlines for no reason, enforced purely for ego and power reasons (instead of actually trying to better the team) have led to utter failure? Possibly the worst team in the NBA right now? Show me proof that these deadlines were enforced for an actual reason, and that the team made some move between the time of said deadline and the time training camp started that would have compelled them not to let him take the offer.

I guess this is what you want, then. Keep supporting hardball, bizarre, and unhelpful negotiating tactics because when 2010 rolls around, no free agent is going to want any part of crap like that.

[Chicag-Fro]

It is on Vinny. There is no excuse for losing by 30 at home to a mediocre Raptors team. There is no excuse for losing at home to a team that was 1-19.

Yeah, I agree its on the players too. They are not executing, they are not playing with energy. But that is partially on the coach. I still see us running the same sets every game. I don't think these guys respect his coaching anymore. It might be harsh to can Vinny, but this team needs a change and something to give them a spark for the rest of the year.

[kyrv]

I don't think the Bulls have given up on VDN nor do I think any of this is his fault. Reinsdorf has ruined this organization, completely ran it into the ground. When BG came back to the Bulls and said he would go ahead and take the offer, Reinsdorf told him it was no longer on the table.

You neglected to mention that the Bulls had set a deadline on the offer and that Ben came back after the deadline expired, but don't let that get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

It's important that the selfless player is not at fault for his decision and that mean ole' management is responsible.

[Ralphb07]

Like I said before, this really isnt Vinny's fault.

If we had a full healthy squad and the team continues to play like this, then its all on Vinny.

But before everyone started dropping like flys, the Bulls were a good team.

Bulls were 4-2 before Tyrus went down
and Bulls were 6-5 before Kirk went down

Bulls are 3-10 since Tyrus has been out.

and Bulls are now 1-7 since they both have been out.

So early samples say that Bulls are a decent team when everyone is healthy.

And extremely bad team when not healthy.

Now if you are moving Vinny because you believe another coach can

-Get more out of Derrick and put the rest of the team in line.

Then I agree with moving Vinny. But right now I dont blame the record on Vinny.

I'm a big VDN supporter but yes this is Vinny's fault IMO. One thing he does too much is over coach IMO, for example last night with 14.9 secs and a timeout left, just let the players go a bit especially if the play is Derrick attacking, if you want Derrick to attack let him take it and push it not letting NJ draw up a play to not allow him the ball. We could of easily took the ball from out of bounds and let Derrick push it.

The timeout let NJ set up their defense to guard Derrick, you have to let these players play sometimes and IMO that's a major negative with VDN.

I still think he can be a good coach but I do blame him for a lot IMO. He seems to talk a good game with letting players play but pulls the young guys way too quick, he's done it with Tyrus and now Johnson.

I think one of two things must happen ASAP

1. Fire VDN

2. Make a big trade

[BullsKY]

Regardless, even if they did put down a deadline for BG to sign the deal, they could have made an exception for the better of the team and let him sign it....or try to sign another guard who's name wasn't Pargo or Hunter.

Who the Bulls would trade for and with who they would trade with is a giant question mark especially since management seems to be sticking to the 2010/not going into luxury tax plan.

I also think firing a coach mid-season is a bad idea.

[KingoftheCastle]

Regardless, even if they did put down a deadline for BG to sign the deal, they could have made an exception for the better of the team and let him sign it....or try to sign another guard who's name wasn't Pargo or Hunter.

Who the Bulls would trade for and with who they would trade with is a giant question mark especially since management seems to be sticking to the 2010/not going into luxury tax plan.

I also think firing a coach mid-season is a bad idea.

Don't look at it as firing a coach, rather hiring one for the first time in two years.

[Hangtime84]

The easiest person the blame is the coach. Regardless of how the roster is constructed or injuries to core rotation players of a team. When losing blame the coach, after coach leaves then blame management, roster, GM, and owner. Especially to the casual fan

[Ralphb07]

This is what I asked KC just a few moments ago

What are you hearing about Vinny and keeping his job? He needs to go

KC wrote:

He'll go. Just a matter of when.

He'd replied again saying his guess is after the season, that's not good

[anorexorcism]

I think one of two things must happen ASAP

1. Fire VDN

Ralph, are my eyes deceiving me??? Have you joined the Fire VDN bandwagon!?!?!?!

lol, no I'm just giving you grief. But if even you, the biggest supporter of VDN I know, have abandoned his ship then I think that says it all.

This guy needs to go ASAP as he is damaging this team and every day he remains coach threatens to start locker room issues (the Salmons not passing to Rose thing has to be heavy on Derrick's mind right now and the fact that Vinny is not stepping up and chiding John for taking the shot is huge).

[Ralphb07]

I think one of two things must happen ASAP

1. Fire VDN

Ralph, are my eyes deceiving me??? Have you joined the Fire VDN bandwagon!?!?!?!

lol, no I'm just giving you grief. But if even you, the biggest supporter of VDN I know, have abandoned his ship then I think that says it all.

This guy needs to go ASAP as he is damaging this team and every day he remains coach threatens to start locker room issues (the Salmons not passing to Rose thing has to be heavy on Derrick's mind right now and the fact that Vinny is not stepping up and chiding John for taking the shot is huge).

Here's my stance on it all, one of these two things need to happen

1. make a bold trade

2.Fire VDN

I have no confidence in the bold trade so yes VDN should than be fired. We've lost 9 of 10 and 7 of 10 have been blowouts and one of the losses is to the Nets. The only win was to the Pistons who were flat cold and actually have real injuries problems.

Something has to be done, we either get some players or let VDN go

[Payt10]

I don't see the point of firing Vinny. Who is there to get that would change this? It's pretty obvious that injuries are the main reason why we are struggling. Tyrus has been out for over a month, Kirk's injury makes are already thin backcourt thinner. Miller and Salmons have both been huge disappointments.. It's not really Vinny's fault I don't think. It's on the players to perform and they aren't doing that. I really don't know what there is to do but wait for these guys to get healthy again.

[Hangtime84]

I don't see the point of firing Vinny. Who is there to get that would change this? It's pretty obvious that injuries are the main reason why we are struggling. Tyrus has been out for over a month, Kirk's injury makes are already thin backcourt thinner. Miller and Salmons have both been huge disappointments.. It's not really Vinny's fault I don't think. It's on the players to perform and they aren't doing that. I really don't know what there is to do but wait for these guys to get healthy again.

fans always look for something to blame...It's not gonna stop Pargo from playing minutes at pg or get gibson to box out

[rin]

Fire Vinny now only if you have an available coach that you want. Get him in now to evaluate the team. If not wait until the end of the season.

[Rerisen]

Vinny being a good coach doesn't appear imminent.