You've got $24M to spend and there's no Big 3. Who ya got ?

[Payt10]

If we can't get one of the big 3 then I say go for Amare and Joe Johnson or Boozer and Joe Johnson.

[coldfish]

IMO, all three of Boozer, Amare and Lee has flaws in their game or problems with signing them.
Amare: As people are noting, he is already declining and has a pretty serious injury history. Also not a good rebounder or defender.
Boozer: Not a particularly good rebounder and the oldest of the group with his own injury issues. When he went to the Jazz, he really had motivational issues which would be a concern once he got a new deal.
Lee: The least skilled of the group on offense and at least in D'Antoni's system, a scary bad defender.

All of that being said, they all dramatically improve the team. I think that which one you get is completely contract dependent in an objective world. In the real world, I suspect that the Bulls want no part of Boozer or Amare based off some of the trade discussions or non discussions of the past year.

[sonny]

cold, Boozer is getting 11 boards in 35 minutes, 6th in the league

[League Circles]

IMO, all three of Boozer, Amare and Lee has flaws in their game or problems with signing them.
Amare: As people are noting, he is already declining and has a pretty serious injury history. Also not a good rebounder or defender.
Boozer: Not a particularly good rebounder and the oldest of the group with his own injury issues. When he went to the Jazz, he really had motivational issues which would be a concern once he got a new deal.
Lee: The least skilled of the group on offense and at least in D'Antoni's system, a scary bad defender.

All of that being said, they all dramatically improve the team. I think that which one you get is completely contract dependent in an objective world. In the real world, I suspect that the Bulls want no part of Boozer or Amare based off some of the trade discussions or non discussions of the past year.

Just wanted to point out two things. Amare has had two isolated major injuries that he has completely proved to be recovered from. If we won't pursue Amare due to past injuries, it's like saying we only take guys who play very game of their careers. Amare is a fully healthy player.

About Boozer - he is an elite rebounder in this league. He's 6th in rpg, 8th in rp48, and hasn't been under 10.4 a game in 5 years. I worry more about Boozer due to general attitude and IMO, a more worrisome health future than Amare. Both are a lot better than Lee. But Amare is IMO on par with Bosh.

[DanTown8587]

Can I ask why people think completely low balling what the market is willing to bear is a good idea? I don't get it? I think you first get the players who are best, then work on contract. As long as it isn't something insane, then you sign the best player(s). You want to make a move to win a title? Then you have to risk something. That risk is the contract you give. You can't get Amare for 12 million a year. That is insane and not likely.

With the extension due Noah next year, this is the year you have cap space. Next year, the Bulls will likely be around 42 million in committed salary (Deng, Kirk, Rose, Noah's cap hold/extension, JJ, Gibson, two #1, Asik, cap holds). And the good FA in 2011 look something like this:

David West
Carmelo Anthony (ETO)
Tony Parker
Zach Randolph
Paul Pierce
Yao Ming
Michael Redd
Richard Jefferson
Caron Butler
Tayshaun Prince
Nene (ETO)

Besides Carmelo, who is this guy worth waiting for? Zach Randolph possibly?

I think so many people on this board don't want to overpay for talent and then it's a situation where you better be prepared to not take that next step unless Rose becomes DWade/LeBron/Kobe good.

And I'll tell you right now, David Lee and Anthony Morrow might make you better on paper, but that team isn't winning squat in the playoffs. I really think that this board has become IN LOVE with efficiency stats and salary numbers and instead of actually watching basketball, they feel the stats tell the whole story.

Case in point: people talking about Joe Johnson. His PER might be low, he might not be a dynamite numbers guy, but you can't honestly watch the Hawks play and see what JJ does and tell me the Bulls wouldn't be closer to 38 wins now than 31 if JJ was here. The numbers say he wouldn't, but actually watching the games do.

Reggie Miller maintained his PER, Clyde Drexler played at a high level until he retired. So did Michael Jordan and Jerry West. But once again, who did and who didn't play at a high level after age 30 shouldn't predicate what to do with Joe Johnson. That's not fair to Joe. I mean Iverson, Marbury, Antoine, etc all had legit reasons why they became horrible players.

[BrooklynBulls]

It is extremely easy for your eyes to take the best player on a winning team and say he can make any team better. It is significantly harder for your eyes to see the same of players on losing teams.

No player looks like a winner on a bad team. Including Joe Johnson of yore.

[League Circles]

Can I ask why people think completely low balling what the market is willing to bear is a good idea? I don't get it? I think you first get the players who are best, then work on contract. As long as it isn't something insane, then you sign the best player(s). You want to make a move to win a title? Then you have to risk something. That risk is the contract you give. You can't get Amare for 12 million a year. That is insane and not likely.

With the extension due Noah next year, this is the year you have cap space. Next year, the Bulls will likely be around 42 million in committed salary (Deng, Kirk, Rose, Noah's cap hold/extension, JJ, Gibson, two #1, Asik, cap holds). And the good FA in 2011 look something like this:

David West
Carmelo Anthony (ETO)
Tony Parker
Zach Randolph
Paul Pierce
Yao Ming
Michael Redd
Richard Jefferson
Caron Butler
Tayshaun Prince
Nene (ETO)

Besides Carmelo, who is this guy worth waiting for? Zach Randolph possibly?

I think so many people on this board don't want to overpay for talent and then it's a situation where you better be prepared to not take that next step unless Rose becomes DWade/LeBron/Kobe good.

And I'll tell you right now, David Lee and Anthony Morrow might make you better on paper, but that team isn't winning squat in the playoffs. I really think that this board has become IN LOVE with efficiency stats and salary numbers and instead of actually watching basketball, they feel the stats tell the whole story.

Case in point: people talking about Joe Johnson. His PER might be low, he might not be a dynamite numbers guy, but you can't honestly watch the Hawks play and see what JJ does and tell me the Bulls wouldn't be closer to 38 wins now than 31 if JJ was here. The numbers say he wouldn't, but actually watching the games do.

Reggie Miller maintained his PER, Clyde Drexler played at a high level until he retired. So did Michael Jordan and Jerry West. But once again, who did and who didn't play at a high level after age 30 shouldn't predicate what to do with Joe Johnson. That's not fair to Joe. I mean Iverson, Marbury, Antoine, etc all had legit reasons why they became horrible players.

this. I agree with almost every word. All these guys are getting max contracts. All of them. About half of them will be overpaid, but that's the risk you take.

[Red Larrivee]

David Lee is the most overrated player on this board. I don't get it. Never will.

He is a horrible defender who refuses to box out his man.

If you really want this guy - I suggest you take a look at what Gasol/Randolph did to this soft bum the other night. Both Z-Bo + Randolph literally waited under the net for offensive boards - Lee refused to get physical and box them out. I believe Randolph finished with 10 offensive boards. That is pathetic and it is very consistent with how Lee plays. He is a garbage man offensively who doesn't play defense.

He is not worth near the numbers people are throwing out. Noah/Lee would be a horrible front court offensively.

This.

He's not a bad player, more than solid actually, but you can't throw Lee the ball and tell him to win you a game. And as you already mentioned, he gets murdered on the defensive end. Whoever overpays him, and it will happen, is going to be royally screwed. He's purely statistical.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Whats the chance the Bulls look for a sign and trade with a guy like Morrow? They can slightly overpay for whoever they want, giving Boozer or Amare near max, and send Taj and a pick, or whatever to Golden State for Morrow.

[DJhitek]

Dantown, that post was excellent. I agree with most of it especially the premise that numbers should be the only driving force.

[DJhitek]

David Lee is the most overrated player on this board. I don't get it. Never will.

He is a horrible defender who refuses to box out his man.

If you really want this guy - I suggest you take a look at what Gasol/Randolph did to this soft bum the other night. Both Z-Bo + Randolph literally waited under the net for offensive boards - Lee refused to get physical and box them out. I believe Randolph finished with 10 offensive boards. That is pathetic and it is very consistent with how Lee plays. He is a garbage man offensively who doesn't play defense.

He is not worth near the numbers people are throwing out. Noah/Lee would be a horrible front court offensively.

This.

He's not a bad player, more than solid actually, but you can't throw Lee the ball and tell him to win you a game. And as you already mentioned, he gets murdered on the defensive end. Whoever overpays him, and it will happen, is going to be royally screwed. He's purely statistical.

I think he is more than just stats, the guy just goes after it all game. At 10 million I'd take a guy who can hit that 12-15 footer and rebound at a decent rate.

[BrooklynBulls]

Taj is pretty damn good. I would much rather keep a CHEAP Taj for the next 3 years than trade him for the privilege to obtain a spot-up shooter.

Morrow to me is only a slight upgrade to me over Korver. And Mike Miller is a better player as of now (though I don't love his age). If the Warriors want to match a 5/35 deal for Morrow, I'd let them.

Go after one of those guys EastbayFJ likes.

[DanTown8587]

David Lee is the most overrated player on this board. I don't get it. Never will.

He is a horrible defender who refuses to box out his man.

If you really want this guy - I suggest you take a look at what Gasol/Randolph did to this soft bum the other night. Both Z-Bo + Randolph literally waited under the net for offensive boards - Lee refused to get physical and box them out. I believe Randolph finished with 10 offensive boards. That is pathetic and it is very consistent with how Lee plays. He is a garbage man offensively who doesn't play defense.

He is not worth near the numbers people are throwing out. Noah/Lee would be a horrible front court offensively.

This.

He's not a bad player, more than solid actually, but you can't throw Lee the ball and tell him to win you a game. And as you already mentioned, he gets murdered on the defensive end. Whoever overpays him, and it will happen, is going to be royally screwed. He's purely statistical.

You know people are basing their arguments purely on statistical analysis (like Duck would say, this isn't baseball, those stats can't tell the whole picture) when they say they want David Lee over Joe Johnson. I can't see what others see in Lee. Every single argument you make for Lee, is exactly what Amare does, except Amare's huge injury concerns like his knee (which he hasn't missed a game for in four years) or his eyes (which he now wears goggles to protect).

[BrooklynBulls]

Exactly! What Lee does is exactly what Amare does, except without the injuries and with better boarding!

The hell is wrong with THAT?

[sonny]

You can give Amare the ball and tell him to do work, you can't do that with Lee.

[BrooklynBulls]

You can give Amare the ball and tell him to do work, you can't do that with Lee.

You can, but seriously, he's not good enough to justify it. He turns it over when in isolation...a LOT.

He's really a P&R and offensive rebound putback guy. That's Lee, too.

[dafunky1]

Ask this question then, would Taj be a better fit than David Lee?? I would take Taj over Lee, but I like defense.Over time, Taj is gonna do the same things offensively as Lee and will always be the better defender.Just my 2 cents worth.

[Red Larrivee]

Exactly! What Lee does is exactly what Amare does, except without the injuries and with better boarding!

The hell is wrong with THAT?

Come on, Amare just went to work on the Spurs today and almost won that game for them. Lee doesn't win games, otherwise the Knicks would be a lot better than they are.

[DanTown8587]

Exactly! What Lee does is exactly what Amare does, except without the injuries and with better boarding!

The hell is wrong with THAT?

Except Amare isn't a god awful defender. I mean Amare might not shut people down, but he isn't as bad as Lee.

And David Lee doesn't get to the line (Amare does), Lee doesn't score in isolation at all, Lee can't put the ball on the floor (Amare can) and Lee doesn't take tough shots. End of game, you need guys who can create and David Lee cannot create. At least a Rose/Amare pick and roll, teams won't instantly trap Derrick and let him give it to Amare. Amare is top 3 in the league at finishing and making the right decision when they trap the ball handler. Only really LA runs it better with Gasol.

[DanTown8587]

EDIT ADD: I miswrote my Lee statement it should read:

Every argument you make for Lee, Amare does the exact thing except better.