leyland for years of bad coaching (time to fire leyland)

[TSE]

Your rhetorical question is asinine. He's the manager of the team and if he had absolutely nothing to do with the team other than setting the lineup card, then he would qualify for having something to do with it whether we have success or not, he's just heavily involved. This thread isn't about complaining about winning streaks, it's for complaining about a bad Manager, and I don't care (yes in terms of us making the playoffs but not in the sense of analyzing the question of our Manager's value) if we win 100 straight games by 10 runs each, it doesn't mean the Manager did a good job if I as the Manager of the team could have won those 100 straight games by 12 runs each.

And more importantly, our entire season needs to be good, any team any every team comes up with hot moments for brief periods, that's statistically inevitable. If you were the Manager and you were trying to do stupid things on purpose, you still can't lose the game if your pitchers and/or hitters are lights out. You don't judge a Manager by a win-loss record, that's ignorant and borderline irrelevant. You judge him by his logic and his rationale and his strategy and minimization of mental mistakes and his ability to get the most out of the team by leading them in the proper direction of how to improve their individual/collective games. Leyland sucks balls at all of those. He just flat out does a terrible, terrible job with this team, and it's not for lack of effort, he's just ignorant as to how the science of baseball works plus he's incredibly stupid, not compared to the average person on the planet, but relative to understanding and appropriately managing a complex sport. You just can't be a good Manager with those things counting against you.

Every single game I watch, I just keep hoping it will be his last. He has no business heading up any major league club, let alone ours. It would be like hiring my 90 year old grandma to go on Iron Chef. Sure she has a legacy of being able to make some awesome cabbage, but to go on a show like that on such a grand stage with so much more going on with not only the complexity of the cooking, but the speed, focus, alertness etc etc. That's not a place for my grandmother and her one-trick-cabbage show. It would be insulting to all of the other competitors and the audience to put a old woman into that kind of scene when she'd spend half her time just trying to open a jar.

Oh and the cabbage is an analogy for when Leyland barks at the umpires after they screw us on a call, cause he does a good job in defending the principle and honor of the right call by sticking to the umps hard when they bastardize the game. Unfortunately for us his best managerial skill is the least valuable in terms of putting up or preventing runs.

[kellmellus50]

Typical headline quote: (move backfired) tigers lose another close one!
Ryan Perry set down the first two Red Sox batters in the bottom of the eighth. But Tigers manager Jim Leyland brought in lefty Daniel Schlereth (0-1) to face lefty Crawford. The move backfired when Crawford walked on a full count. Leyland visited Schlereth on the mound but left him in and Saltalamacchia got his go-ahead hit.

Should have keeped perry in he was doing fine ,leland is over coaching again.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles ... 235012.txt

[TSE]

Lots of money being paid to Benoit and his 7.98 ERA too. We just got so close to being away from bad contracts, I hope this isn't the start of another?

[kellmellus50]

How can leland continue playing ryan raburn batting .204 stricking out 2-3 times a game .
And get this he keeps him batting 3rd what a stupid coach!!!!!!!!!

[ajaX82]

How can leland continue playing ryan raburn batting .204 stricking out 2-3 times a game .
And get this he keeps him batting 3rd what a stupid coach!!!!!!!!!

Ya know what Kell I agree with you here. Raburn batting third right now is pretty damn dumb. I wish we would move Avila up in the order personally

[kellmellus50]

Raburn will start at second base tonight against the Red Sox and will bat eighth.
Leland must have read my coment and dropped him in the order.I am available to be an assistant coach .

Batting 2. is Andy Dirks, LF

[kellmellus50]

another game lost by leland ,he lost so many this year i can not keep track.overcoaching should never have walked a.233 hitter.

There were runners on first and third. One out. Tigers manager Jim Leyland had ordered Pauley to intentionally walk Carlos Santana, who was hitting .233, to load the bases for Fukudome.


Leyland said afterward that he had no hesitation about doing that, and no regrets. Let’s face it: Leyland had options, but no GOOD options. Still, I did not like the decision, because it put Pauley in an impossibly delicate situation: bases loaded, one out, one mistake ends the game.


Is there pressure to make the perfect pitch there?

http://www.freep.com/article/20110810/C ... ext|Sports

[TSE]

Yeah this team is just really sad. Illitch is the key person to blame. I mean if you hired say a worm to pick up your groceries and after the first time the worm doesn't deliver, you keep going back and back and back again, at what point do you stop blaming the worm? I mean a worm can't even talk and doesn't have a driver's license or the ability to lift heavy grocery bags! So does it even make sense to apply the blame? It's not even a logical question really. This is analogously what is going on here, just in a less obvious manner.

As bad as DD and Jim are, we don't have to be burdened with them if the owner would do the right thing for the team and the city. Illitch is arguably one of the worst people in the Detroit area. His pissing on our town with excessive incompetence of the team really destroys prosperity in many forms not only in this region, but also this state, and this country, and to some effect the entire world if you consider all of the relevant intertwined dynamics. He's the worst citizen of Detroit that I can name off the top of my head without doing further research. Even a career criminal is better, because a total thief stealing millions upon millions just doesn't add up to the negative damage that Illitch does, which is totally preventable if he were to be responsible.

And now he's in the process of ruining the Red Wings too. We had Datsyuk and Zetterberg low in the draft. We got really lucky. It's almost like getting a Tom Brady break TWO TIMES! Yet we can't even sniff being an uber dominant team, let alone a championship team. And still all these delusional fans and citizens here still think he's a good owner. There is little doubt in my mind that Illitch is the number 1 person in the state of Michigan that is respected more than he deserves, you couldn't find a more ridiculous disparity, cause in order to do so you have to start with an extremely rich famous guy to have enough potential, and then you have to somehow have that guy be evil or incompetent at a massive level in such a well disguised way that fools the ignorant, and as a result, Illitch can't be beat. He could save 50 burning babies in a building tomorrow, and that wouldn't be enough to justify himself as a good person. If you were to objectively place a number as to the value of human life, times 50, that's still not enough overall good deed to compare to the level that he has damaged his community. That's how sickly awful of a person he is, not for having evil intent, but for drastic and unimaginably gigantic neglect of responsibility, which to the victims the intent isn't important so much as the result.

No drunken drivers that accidentally kill people intend to kill anybody, but yet even if they are the nicest person in their neighborhood, the huge bad deed supersedes the smaller good deed and that person gets sentenced to jail. I can safely say his damage to this community exceeds that of 50 drunken driver deaths. It would be a long complicated project to figure out precisely where he stands by looking at the whole body of work of the man, but just on looking at the Tigers team itself, there is plenty of damage there to top those 50 DD kills in terms of total and inexcusable harm.

He needs to watch the new Spiderman movie when it comes out next year, cause that line is so true "with great power comes great responsibility" and if you don't have the capacity to be responsible, you have no business being in the game.

[Manocad]

Yeah this team is just really sad.

If there was ever a single statement that shows you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about relative to baseball analysis, this is it.

[ElectricMayhem]

He's been awfully quiet since the Tigers started dominating the division. He seems to revel in Detroit's losses and lousy trades for Fister and Delmon Young. At first glance, it would seem illogical to root against the team you support, but as we all know, TSE is a man of logic. Let's see if I can summon the spirit of TSE to explain why:

If the Detroit Tigers continue their winning ways, they will never understand that their GM and coaching methods never lead to winning. The worst thing we can do is reinforce negative behavior. Therefore, we must root for the Tigers to collapse so they can realize the error of their ways and hire someone such as myself who can lead them to 10 straight championships. Only a short-sighted fool would trade in 10 straight championships for one little playoff run this year. A World Series victory would do nothing but lock us into mediocrity for years to come. This is why any true Detroit Tigers fan is praying we lose the rest of our games and hoping for either Chicago or Cleveland to steal the division for us. It's for our own good.

[Manocad]

That's pretty funny. No surprise that since nothing he prognosticated about the Tigers came to fruition that he's high-tailed it outta here.

And I mean literally nothing. He was wrong about every analysis he made.

[chrbal]

I knew all this when he was devastated by the Tigers loss of Casey Fien back like 2 years ago. Don't know the name, thats kind of the point. The best thing his other outlet (the Lions are starting to look good). He might be done soon.

But is it wrong, that I sometimes go back through his old posts just to relive his wonderful thoughts.

[TSE]

Yeah this team is just really sad.

If there was ever a single statement that shows you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about relative to baseball analysis, this is it.

But that statement isn't one of analytical nature, it's an evaluation statement of opinion. This team is still well short of the number of games we should have won and we should be the #1 seed with a healthy margin between us and the next best team and you are just limited in your vision by accepting the level of success of our results as satisfactory imo.

And I've been quiet because we went a long period of time before any new posts had shown up in here so I haven't checked it that regularly, plus I'm swamped in a new project for work that just started so I've had a lot less time to float around on the boards. You guys are in luck, for the next 6 months I'll be super busy and won't write many long posts, but I'll always check for updates on your quirky insults, but it won't change the nature of what the serious flaws are with this team for the long-term relative to what we could have had if we would have made better choices.

[Manocad]

What won't change is the serious flaws in your baseball analysis.

I didn't expect this team to win 120 games. I expected them to be right where they're at--battling for the division with a good chance of winning it. Therefore my vision is fine. You're the one with a vision problem; that much was apparent when you were predicting disaster status for the team.

It's not valiant to keep fighting a losing battle. Turn tail and live to fight another day.

[TSE]

We are in "disaster status", cause I expected them to win 120 games or at least 100 at the absolute minimum. 100 is a solid number, but in this league with the mass incompetence of the elite teams, we really should have 110 as the very lowest point to swiftly and easily secure, and to do that would be impressive, not what we are actually achieving.

And we have NOTHING in the bank vault in terms of elite players to secure that we win 110-120+ games every year for the next several years, and we should already be stocked up and prepared for that timeframe moreso than we are now. We are moving too slow and too late and before you know it our other key players will be lost via another avenue and we will never put together the dominant string that we could have if we had a vision for the bigger picture and how to execute a FANTASTIC plan instead of an idiotic one where we make countless bad transactions all year and neglect to do other trades to clean up our mess.

[ajaX82]

Teams don't win 120 games and thinking of this as an annual goal is absurd

[TSE]

No it's not. It's what WE SHOULD have, and because of every other team being too stupid to do it first.

[Manocad]

100 wins is, and has been, the highwater mark in MLB for years. Teams that have won 100 games have typically gone on to have great success, i.e. best record in the league, home field advantage throughout the playoffs, and World Series wins. That's a fact whether you like it or not. And that being stated, there's no value in winning 120 games. Having the best record in baseball by 22 games is no more of an advantage than having the best record by 2 games. What you're failing to realize is that in the interest of the long term health of the team, teams are willing to lose games due to resting their top players as long as they're keeping pace with staying on top. This year the Tigers have done a pretty good job of doing that. Right now they look like the best team in the AL, period. The goal is to be the best team and win the World Series, whether that means 120 regular season wins or 90. The win total is completely moot as long as you're the best team out there come September/October. And compared to the rest of the teams out there, the Tigers look pretty damn good.

Anyone who looks at where this team is right now and says "disaster" has no baseball insight whatsoever.