ImageImageImageImageImage

New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch

Moderators: Kilroy, TyCobb

User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Dog Ate Their Homework? 

Post#101 » by Ranma » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:19 am

Well, we know Miami was one of the teams that didn't submit a written response to Ohtani's questionnaire. I wonder who the other teams are. Also, Ohtani eliminated the Yankees despite his agency pleading on their behalf. Maybe he should have chosen other representation, though, that doesn't necessarily mean Nez Balelo was trying to steer him to New York as it could have just been his bosses and co-workers at CAA. Then again, he could have been a part of it too.

Buster Olney, ESPN.com (12/3/17)
Surprisingly, at least three teams have not answered the information request made by Shohei Ohtani’s representatives last weekend.

Tough Market for Top Free Agents Looking to Land with Contenders


Jon Heyman, FanRagSports.com (12/3/17)
Before two-way Japanese star Shohei Ohtani made his choice not to include the Yankees as a finalist in the derby for the two-way star, Ohtani’s representatives at CAA made pleas to at least give them a longer look, people familiar with the situation said.

The case to consider the Yankees more strongly by CAA included 1) their fine young team, 2) the chance to hit a lot of home runs with their short porch, and 3) the marketing money that could be made as a Yankee in New York via branding opportunities.

However, Ohtani, a small-town guy who’s played for Nippon in Sapporo and obviously isn’t about the money, was having none of it. When Yankees GM Brian Cashman told Yankees media members, including NJ.com’s Brendan Kuty, that the Yankees did not make it to the second round, he said he wished (probably for the first time) that the Yankees were in a smaller city on the West Coast.

Agents Advised Ohtani to Consider Yankees
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

The Selected Seven (Confirmed) 

Post#102 » by Ranma » Mon Dec 4, 2017 3:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Ohtani Undoubtedly Top Prospect in Baseball 

Post#103 » by Ranma » Mon Dec 4, 2017 8:16 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Plenty of Static to Cancel Out 

Post#104 » by Ranma » Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:39 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
wco81
RealGM
Posts: 22,303
And1: 9,338
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
       

Re: New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch 

Post#105 » by wco81 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 3:15 am

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Dodgers Met with Ohtani 

Post#106 » by Ranma » Tue Dec 5, 2017 3:31 pm

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Remaining Schedule of Meetings 

Post#107 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 12:59 am

I assume Ohtani will make another round of cuts to maybe 3 teams in order to visit each of the respective facilities before making his final decision.

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Neddy
RealGM
Posts: 15,865
And1: 3,908
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
     

Re: Showing Shohei the Big Picture 

Post#108 » by Neddy » Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:21 am

Ranma wrote: I think it will come down to the Mariners and Dodgers with Seattle being the current favorite since he can follow in the footsteps of his idol Ichiro Suzuki as the new face of the franchise.

However, I hope for the Dodgers to convince Ohtani of the big picture.


I honestly do believe that we don't have a pray in hell. and I also sincerely believe the Giants are the close #2.


Ohtani not only "'wants", but he is willing to give up 100 million or more in guaranteed money by not waiting out 2 more years, he is willing to give up marketing/brand $, to actually take a steep paycut from his current deal with Nippon Ham, is "absolutely committed" to play 2 ways. nothing else i think matters to this kid other than a real chance to show he is the best in the world, not with just always never ending debates of 'who's the best pitcher'? or the 'best hitter'? but the "best overall baseball player at everything", ever.

the dodgers cannot guarantee him to hit 300 at bats next season. his bat, still impressive and has a great raw power, is no way major league proven or ready. we saw the best HR hitter from SK get creamed in the majors, in JH Park who now cut ties with the Twins and have returned back to his home team the Nexen Heroes of KBO. we are a championship contender #1. we cannot let any games slip away until we are mathematically the home team in the World Series, which obviously means to get the best record. even if we let the guys figure it out themselves and not be preachy about it, I am sure they all know. if Shohei gets off to a hot start, that's a different story, Im sure fans will demand patience from the management even if he hits 3 for 47 skid with 21Ks and 4 GIDPs in the month of June, if his April and May produced something like 275/330/470 in around 90 at bats with 6 HRs. but I think it is far more likely that he starts off under the Mendoza line than get off to the numbers I mentioned prior. if his start of the season on month of the April, or even during the spring training, say 2-21 in ST then turn in .190 in the first two months, he won't ever see the plate unless we run out of pinch hitters in late extra innings. he knows that.

the GIants have holes everywhere. they currently have a huge hole to fill in the LF, CF, 3B, pitching at all levels... the farm......
Ohtani can instantly fill two holes in a historically efficient way, the performance / pay ratio. even if he sucks out of the gate, what other choice would they have and what great expectations their fan base would have after becoming the worst team in the majors in the last season and a half? even if they trade for Stanton, they could move Hunter to CF when Ohtani plays, or platoon with right handed hitting Hunter Pence himself when Ohtani is in the lineup. Hunter's .670 OPS against RHP ain't too pretty anyway.

but in the end, if it is not the Mariners, I think the Padres are even more likely than us. it's a smaller market with no hope to compete, which means they can afford the Ohtani experiment in the box to their content just to sell the seats.

but but, the Angels would probably have a better chance than the Friars since they are an AL team that can spend a DH on him. the DH will be the bigger factor than the "NL will always have the starting pitcher hit" argument would be a cowardly path for Ohtani, knowing if he does not impress the management in high pressure team in a short time, then his guaranteed at bats in a season, is about 50-60 range for a starting pitcher in a season, if stay healthy reasonably enough in the rotation. that would not be satisfying for the kid who is looking for a 250-300 ABs a season.

the main desire of Ohtani's psychology, is in part a smaller market team means less media scrutiny, probably have lesser pressure to win now, and that his presence alone could be a huge ticket sales as well as sponsorships boost, therefore the managements will let him prove himself as long as it takes, where a team like ours cannot. another possible purpose is that a bigger cities lets in far more distractions of life. this is a kid who wants to live out the life of his baseball manga heroes. but also, this is the same kid who wilingly gave up playing the field and opted to be a DH. he will probably not willingly try to play defense in the majors when he gave that up in Japan in the first place. NL teams, unless in dire, no pressure situation, won't have a chance. that is us.





anywho, if you wish to skip all that rambling, just read here that... I think Ohtani is far from being a dodger at this point in our lives.
ehhhhh f it.
User avatar
Neddy
RealGM
Posts: 15,865
And1: 3,908
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
     

Re: Remaining Schedule of Meetings 

Post#109 » by Neddy » Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:22 am

Ranma wrote:I assume Ohtani will make another round of cuts to maybe 3 teams in order to visit each of the respective facilities before making his final decision.

Read on Twitter




I think they are

1. Mariners
2. GIants
3. Angels

dark horse : Padres.
ehhhhh f it.
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Padres in the Running 

Post#110 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:33 am

Neddy wrote:I think they are

1. Mariners
2. GIants
3. Angels

dark horse : Padres.


It's funny that you mention the Padres as a dark-horse candidate since I get the sense that they're in the top 3. I don't want to underestimate Angels GM, Billy Eppler, since I'm a fan of his and previously advocated that he be a part of the Dodgers' front office over Josh Byrnes, but I think Anaheim, Texas, and Chicago are in the bottom 3 for Ohtani's consideration. A presentation from one of those 3 teams would have to be head and shoulders better than the other 4 teams and I find that to be unlikely, but I guess you never know since they've made it this far.

I think San Francisco is 4th in being in the middle of the pack while the Dodgers, Seattle, and San Diego seem to be in the top 3 contenders. What I'm afraid of is that Logan White will get his man for the Padres and it will upset me that much more that we chose to let him go in favor of Billy Gasparino.

Obviously, I think the Dodgers have the most to offer, but I can see him being comfortable in the low-key environments in the Pacific Northwest and the coastal city closest to the border. I still think the Mariners are the favorites but I'm not sure how much separation there is among the top teams under consideration.
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Chance for More At-Bats? Or Greatness? 

Post#111 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 4:43 am

Neddy wrote:anywho, if you wish to skip all that rambling, just read here that... I think Ohtani is far from being a dodger at this point in our lives.


You make valid points and I think I agree with all of them since I think you've described his mentality and aspirations accurately. The thing is that I'm hoping the Dodgers can make him realize that he'd be better off joining our organization with the support and resources at his disposal.

Regardless of which team he chooses, whether it is in the AL or NL, he's actually doing himself a disservice by trying to develop both as a hitter and pitcher at the major league level. I've already made known my skepticism of hitters from the KBO and NPB translating their success over to MLB. The exception was Ichiro but a big factor for him was that he was already a polished and accomplished hitter before coming over to the U.S. Of course, being an elite talent helped more than anything else.

If Shohei Ohtani wants to be known as the ultimate player, he'll have to show that he can play Gold Glove defense as well. Dave Winfield was thought to be capable of pitching at an elite level but was never given the chance, however, he acquitted himself quite well at the plate and in the field. I agree that it is unlikely that Ohtani will ever win a Gold Glove outside of being on the mound, but he certainly has the physical tools to be an athletic fielder; he just won't get the necessary reps to develop the instincts and reads to be at an elite level. This may be exactly why he chooses to focus only on hitting and pitching.

The problem is that he has the readily apparent upside to develop into a Cy Young pitcher,but as a hitter, he's just not ready to be a consistently productive bat at this level right now given the holes in his swing. Sure, playing for a team with no immediate expectations to contend will afford him more opportunities, but as you've pointed out more advanced hitters than him have come over from the Pacific Rim and failed to stick with few exceptions.

If Ohtani insists that more at-bats will be the key ingredient to him becoming a successful MLB hitter with sustained success, he's going to be thoroughly disappointed and possibly even risk damaging his potential as a pitcher in pursuing this pie-in-the-sky goal. If he wants a decent chance at actually succeeding in becoming a productive MLB hitter, he'll need to join an organization that will provide him with advanced analytics, instruction, and other developmental support. The Dodgers are at the forefront in making progress in those fields.

It's not like he won't make adjustments himself given how devoted he is to studying his craft or that other MLB teams don't have hitting coaches and the like, but it's a matter of having the best collection of evaluators and mentors to help him along his chosen path. We can't forget that he still prioritizes being a great pitcher and Rick Honeycutt is arguably the best in the business as a pitcher whisperer. Turner Ward also happens to be a noteworthy hitting coach and the Dodgers happen to employ a front office that is among the most prolific in generating and providing analytics to its coaches and players.

Not only that but we also happen to employ a Japanese-American manager who is one of the most affable personalities in the game. Plus, as his idol Yu Darvish can attest, the Dodgers' clubhouse is quite welcoming and supportive of Japanese newcomers making their way in a new environment.

Given what I know about the kid, I have to think that as confident as he is, he also understands that he'll need help along his journey, which is why he asked teams to provide presentations based on his questionnaire. Securing regular playing time may make it easier for him to initially make the transition to becoming a 2-way player, but like I've said, he'd be better off taking the big picture and long-term into account in choosing an organization with better resources and opportunities to forge his mettle towards becoming a great player whether that's as a 2-way player or a pitcher only.
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Neddy
RealGM
Posts: 15,865
And1: 3,908
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
     

Re: Chance for More At-Bats? Or Greatness? 

Post#112 » by Neddy » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:42 am

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:anywho, if you wish to skip all that rambling, just read here that... I think Ohtani is far from being a dodger at this point in our lives.


You make valid points and I think I agree with all of them since I think you've described his mentality and aspirations accurately. The thing is that I'm hoping the Dodgers can make him realize that he'd be better off joining our organization with the support and resources at his disposal.

Regardless of which team he chooses, whether it is in the AL or NL, he's actually doing himself a disservice by trying to develop both as a hitter and pitcher at the major league level. I've already made known my skepticism of hitters from the KBO and NPB translating their success over to MLB. The exception was Ichiro but a big factor for him was that he was already a polished and accomplished hitter before coming over to the U.S. Of course, being an elite talent helped more than anything else.

If Shohei Ohtani wants to be known as the ultimate player, he'll have to show that he can play Gold Glove defense as well. Dave Winfield was thought to be capable of pitching at an elite level but was never given the chance, however, he acquitted himself quite well at the plate and in the field. I agree that it is unlikely that Ohtani will ever win a Gold Glove outside of being on the mound, but he certainly has the physical tools to be an athletic fielder; he just won't get the necessary reps to develop the instincts and reads to be at an elite level. This may be exactly why he chooses to focus only on hitting and pitching.

The problem is that he has the readily apparent upside to develop into a Cy Young pitcher,but as a hitter, he's just not ready to be a consistently productive bat at this level right now given the holes in his swing. Sure, playing for a team with no immediate expectations to contend will afford him more opportunities, but as you've pointed out more advanced hitters than him have come over from the Pacific Rim and failed to stick with few exceptions.

If Ohtani insists that more at-bats will be the key ingredient to him becoming a successful MLB hitter with sustained success, he's going to be thoroughly disappointed and possibly even risk damaging his potential as a pitcher in pursuing this pie-in-the-sky goal. If he wants a decent chance at actually succeeding in becoming a productive MLB hitter, he'll need to join an organization that will provide him with advanced analytics, instruction, and other developmental support. The Dodgers are at the forefront in making progress in those fields.

It's not like he won't make adjustments himself given how devoted he is to studying his craft or that other MLB teams don't have hitting coaches and the like, but it's a matter of having the best collection of evaluators and mentors to help him along his chosen path. We can't forget that he still prioritizes being a great pitcher and Rick Honeycutt is arguably the best in the business as a pitcher whisperer. Turner Ward also happens to be a noteworthy hitting coach and the Dodgers happen to employ a front office that is among the most prolific in generating and providing analytics to its coaches and players.

Not only that but we also happen to employ a Japanese-American manager who is one of the most affable personalities in the game. Plus, as his idol Yu Darvish can attest, the Dodgers' clubhouse is quite welcoming and supportive of Japanese newcomers making their way in a new environment.

Given what I know about the kid, I have to think that as confident as he is, he also understands that he'll need help along his journey, which is why he asked teams to provide presentations based on his questionnaire. Securing regular playing time may make it easier for him to initially make the transition to becoming a 2-way player, but like I've said, he'd be better off taking the big picture and long-term into account in choosing an organization with better resources and opportunities to forge his mettle towards becoming a great player whether that's as a 2-way player or a pitcher only.


hot damn dudes, I've got myself Dave Roberts' autographed MLB official baseball through his mother;s best friend's friend and got to take pictures with Dave's mother's best friend! ha she is supposed to send me the photos, but not sure if I should post them here as i have no consent for their images, but just saying it was cool as hell.
ehhhhh f it.
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

San Diego's Japanese Connection 

Post#113 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:11 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Similar to Dodgers' Plan? 

Post#114 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:14 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Petriello's Assessment on Ohtani Similar to Mine 

Post#115 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:33 pm

Ranma wrote:As a hitter, I see him with similar upside as Joc Pederson when he first came up through the organization. Being a DH would make it easier, but if he wants to be considered a truly complete player, he should be sold on playing the outfield. While this obviously furthers his injury risks, it'd be mitigated with him needing rest days as a 2-way player. Easing into the role of positional player also applies here.

If he chooses the latter route over the former objective, then good luck in Seattle, but it would go against Shohei's stated desire to try to become the best player in baseball. Koufax and Drysdale pushed each other to be the best with their internal competition with each other. The same applied to Maddux and Glavine. We saw Kershaw and Greinke have that dynamic as well during their time as teammates. The same would apply to Ohtani and Kershaw, but Ohtani has to rise up to the level of Greinke first and he's not quite there yet. He'd have to surpass Darvish at this point and he certainly has the potential to do so, but he needs work. I actually like the comparison to Syndergaard as a pitcher.



Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Wondering If Fires Have Hurt Impression of LA on Ohtani 

Post#116 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:48 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Nippon-Ham's Spring Training Partnership with San Diego Expired 

Post#117 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:23 pm

If this is a factor, it might indicate that the Mariners are the favorites for Ohtani. Given Logan White's previously aggressive pursuit of Shohei in Japan on behalf of the Dodgers ruffling feathers with NPB teams, it could mean that the Dodgers and Padres will not be looked at as favorable partners in their next spring training relationship. White only joined San Diego relatively recently after their relationship with Nippon-Ham was already established.

However, if the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters want to get the most out of working with and learning from a new partner, they'd be hard pressed to find a better organization than Friedman & Co.'s Dodgers given my aforementioned notes about the organization being at the forefront of employing advanced methodologies towards approaching the game.

I expect whichever MLB team to sign Shohei Ohtani to not-so-coincidentally partner up with the Fighers.


Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Meetings Completed with Boys & Girls Clubs 

Post#118 » by Ranma » Wed Dec 6, 2017 9:04 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Mariners & Angels Up Ante by Padding Pocketbooks 

Post#119 » by Ranma » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:48 am

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Mariners Boost Ohtani Funds 

Post#120 » by Ranma » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:34 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip

Return to Los Angeles Dodgers