Game 24: Cavs @ Celtics 12/12/2023

[ijspeelman]

[Iwasawitness]

I… don’t have words. I wasn’t expecting us to be dominating Boston to start out the game.

[JujitsuFlip]

I… don’t have words. I wasn’t expecting us to be dominating Boston to start out the game.

[ijspeelman]

Was a good game. Actually felt like the most complete game for Jarrett Allen this year

[jbk1234]

This one is on JBB. I don't know how you end a game like that with an unused challenge. If you're saving it for the 4th quarter, then that 4th foul on Allen after Porzingis blatantly hooked him was the time. We were on a back'-to-back, the Celtic got their starting guards rest by going with Pritchard and Hauser, and CPJ was still glued to the bench. LeVert needed to be subbed in for Strus instead of Wade to close out the game. You can't give up height at every single position and get stops.

These are the types of winnable games against really good teams where coaching matters. He's still running the starters into the ground, on the second night of a back to back. He can point to Mobley being out, but we give up those same corner threes with Mobley on the floor.

He can point to the officiating, which was atrocious, but it was still winnable despite the fact the officials decided to not let the Cavs play defense in the second quarter.

Maybe we're just not good enough to beat good teams with one of our core four out. Maybe we're too thin in the front court, but we can't continue playing Garland and Mitchell these kinds of minutes. It's December.

[JujitsuFlip]

The Celtics starting 5 is exactly how i want the Cavs to be constructed.

2 guards who are great defenders, can shoot it, and facilitate/ball handle.

2 forwards who a good to great defenders, can shoot, score, and create for others situationally.

Lastly, a stretch 5 who can block shots.

Jrue: 4.5 three attempts on 37.2%, +1.4 DBPM

White: 5.8 three attempts on 41%, +2.0 DBPM

Brown: 6.9 three attempts on 34.1%, +0.6 DBPM

Tatum: 8.6 three attempts on 35 6%, +1.2 DBPM

KP: 5 three attempts on 33.8%, +2.5 DBPM

For the modern NBA, this is the optimal line-up. They obviously traded for 3 of the 5 and have absolutely no depth but if they can stay healthy, they're my favorite to come outta the East.

[jbk1234]

The Celtics starting 5 is exactly how i want the Cavs to be constructed.

2 guards who are great defenders, can shoot it, and facilitate/ball handle.

2 forwards who a good to great defenders, can shoot, score, and create for others situationally.

Lastly, a stretch 5 who can block shots.

Jrue: 4.5 three attempts on 37.2%, +1.4 DBPM

White: 5.8 three attempts on 41%, +2.0 DBPM

Brown: 6.9 three attempts on 34.1%, +0.6 DBPM

Tatum: 8.6 three attempts on 35 6%, +1.2 DBPM

KP: 5 three attempts on 33.8%, +2.5 DBPM

For the modern NBA, this is the optimal line-up. They obviously traded for 3 of the 5 and have absolutely no depth but if they can stay healthy, they're my favorite to come outta the East.

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

[JujitsuFlip]

The Celtics starting 5 is exactly how i want the Cavs to be constructed.

2 guards who are great defenders, can shoot it, and facilitate/ball handle.

2 forwards who a good to great defenders, can shoot, score, and create for others situationally.

Lastly, a stretch 5 who can block shots.

Jrue: 4.5 three attempts on 37.2%, +1.4 DBPM

White: 5.8 three attempts on 41%, +2.0 DBPM

Brown: 6.9 three attempts on 34.1%, +0.6 DBPM

Tatum: 8.6 three attempts on 35 6%, +1.2 DBPM

KP: 5 three attempts on 33.8%, +2.5 DBPM

For the modern NBA, this is the optimal line-up. They obviously traded for 3 of the 5 and have absolutely no depth but if they can stay healthy, they're my favorite to come outta the East.

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

[jbk1234]

The Celtics starting 5 is exactly how i want the Cavs to be constructed.

2 guards who are great defenders, can shoot it, and facilitate/ball handle.

2 forwards who a good to great defenders, can shoot, score, and create for others situationally.

Lastly, a stretch 5 who can block shots.

Jrue: 4.5 three attempts on 37.2%, +1.4 DBPM

White: 5.8 three attempts on 41%, +2.0 DBPM

Brown: 6.9 three attempts on 34.1%, +0.6 DBPM

Tatum: 8.6 three attempts on 35 6%, +1.2 DBPM

KP: 5 three attempts on 33.8%, +2.5 DBPM

For the modern NBA, this is the optimal line-up. They obviously traded for 3 of the 5 and have absolutely no depth but if they can stay healthy, they're my favorite to come outta the East.

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

For most of the game, Garland and Mitchell were getting to where they wanted against a team with so many two way players. Porzingis is strictly a drop coverage center. Away from the basket, he's a defensive liability. A lot could come down to how much energy Tatum has to spend defending and boxing out Mobley.

I think the chances of the Celtics getting gifted 5 consecutive trips to the line in the playoffs are remote.

[ijspeelman]

The Celtics starting 5 is exactly how i want the Cavs to be constructed.

2 guards who are great defenders, can shoot it, and facilitate/ball handle.

2 forwards who a good to great defenders, can shoot, score, and create for others situationally.

Lastly, a stretch 5 who can block shots.

Jrue: 4.5 three attempts on 37.2%, +1.4 DBPM

White: 5.8 three attempts on 41%, +2.0 DBPM

Brown: 6.9 three attempts on 34.1%, +0.6 DBPM

Tatum: 8.6 three attempts on 35 6%, +1.2 DBPM

KP: 5 three attempts on 33.8%, +2.5 DBPM

For the modern NBA, this is the optimal line-up. They obviously traded for 3 of the 5 and have absolutely no depth but if they can stay healthy, they're my favorite to come outta the East.

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

We just lost a close game to the Celtics without Mobley and have shown fight last season against a semi-similar roster. I am not saying we would win a series against them, but I'd hope the Cavs could give them a fight.

I think the Celtics are the better team and potentially better constructed (I worry mostly about their depth which same could be said for the Cavs), but I still think it'd be competitive

If we want to lament on the disappointing Knicks loss, I can see convincing yourself that this Cavs roster is swept by a more dominant Celtics team

P.S. Look at Celtics play calling and find the difference between the Celtics and the Cavs. I did it last night and believe it to be even more PNR heavy and especially more ISO heavy. I think our defensive gameplan worked fairly well. Cavs doubled and showed defenders in the driving lane and players did their job in helping and recovering to three point shooters

[JujitsuFlip]

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

For most of the game, Garland and Mitchell were getting to where they wanted against a team with so many two way players. Porzingis is strictly a drop coverage center. Away from the basket, he's a defensive liability. A lot could come down to how much energy Tatum has to spend defending and boxing out Mobley.

I think the chances of the Celtics getting gifted 5 consecutive trips to the line in the playoffs are remote.

You keep talking about them having to defend us, we have to defend them too.

Who is going outside with KP?

Who can defend Tatum in isolation?

Not as big of a concern but whoever isn't on Tatum, who is defending Brown in isolation?

If the Cavs take away their top 2 scoring options and have a guy out there with KP, then who is actually gonna be able to hold Jrue from not going off? Because during the championship run, he went over 20 points 8 times.

I just really fail to see where the Cavs hold any matchup advantage here, there's not a single guy where our players can just hide on defense.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think the Celtics are the favorites to come out of the East, but they should want no part of us in a seven game series. We matchup pretty well against them if we're healthy. Allen and Mobley are really difficult for them to deal with. Tatum would have to guard him. Bringing in Horford at his age, and sending White to the bench isn't something they're going to want to do.

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

We just lost a close game to the Celtics without Mobley and have shown fight last season against a semi-similar roster. I am not saying we would win a series against them, but I'd hope the Cavs could give them a fight.

I think the Celtics are the better team and potentially better constructed (I worry mostly about their depth which same could be said for the Cavs), but I still think it'd be competitive

If we want to lament on the disappointing Knicks loss, I can see convincing yourself that this Cavs roster is swept by a more dominant Celtics team

P.S. Look at Celtics play calling and find the difference between the Celtics and the Cavs. I did it last night and believe it to be even more PNR heavy and especially more ISO heavy. I think our defensive gameplan worked fairly well. Cavs doubled and showed defenders in the driving lane and players did their job in helping and recovering to three point shooters

Idk how similar their last season's roster is to this season's. KP wasn't there, Jrue wasn't there, and White was mostly a starter but not full time.

[jbk1234]

If Jb is still the head coach and that is the 1/8 matchup i have the Celtics in a sweep or maybe the Cavs pull out one game. The talent disparity is unreal and every single one of their starting 5 are 2 way players, I'm not sure you could call a single Cavs player a 2 way player, maybe Porter Jr and he can't shoot plus is currently ineligible for the post season.

The only shot the Cavs would have in that 1/8 hypothetical series is several of the Celtics starters getting hurt/suspended or maybe a slightly better shot if anyone not named Jb is the coach.

Not sure where you see the matchup advantages coming from but I'm looking at two guys starting in the back court who are All-Defense and a 3rd guy who is borderline that, plus a 7'3" shot blocker... Who all 5 can shoot to spread out our defense, no thanks i want no parts of that.

We just lost a close game to the Celtics without Mobley and have shown fight last season against a semi-similar roster. I am not saying we would win a series against them, but I'd hope the Cavs could give them a fight.

I think the Celtics are the better team and potentially better constructed (I worry mostly about their depth which same could be said for the Cavs), but I still think it'd be competitive

If we want to lament on the disappointing Knicks loss, I can see convincing yourself that this Cavs roster is swept by a more dominant Celtics team

P.S. Look at Celtics play calling and find the difference between the Celtics and the Cavs. I did it last night and believe it to be even more PNR heavy and especially more ISO heavy. I think our defensive gameplan worked fairly well. Cavs doubled and showed defenders in the driving lane and players did their job in helping and recovering to three point shooters

Idk how similar their last season's roster is to this season's. KP wasn't there, Jrue wasn't there, and White was mostly a starter but not full time.

Smart's gone, Brogdon's gone, G. Williams is gone, R. Williams is gone, and Horford is a year older. As we learned against the Knicks, your starters can win their minutes and you can still lose the series.

[JonFromVA]

Maybe it's playing in Boston and missing Evan, but I haven't been so miffed about the free-throw disparity until this game where it just felt like the Celtics only had to drive in to the man defending them to get a free trip to the line. 26 attempts for Boston to just 9 for us.

Not to mention during the LeBron years we kept getting told he was too big & strong to get calls, but now our team is built around guys who get knocked in to the stands by a little contact and we still don't get a ton of calls.

I'm not sure what the answer is this week to consistently get the refs to blow their whistle for us, but we might consider looking to add someone who can draw fouls consistently and adding tactics to raise how much our guys do draw.

I mean even with the NBA clamping down on some of his tactics Trae Young is still finding ways to draw nearly as many fouls as he did before ... and everyone on our team is bigger than him.

Is JBB's mouth a factor? It's not clear it's helping.

[JonFromVA]

We just lost a close game to the Celtics without Mobley and have shown fight last season against a semi-similar roster. I am not saying we would win a series against them, but I'd hope the Cavs could give them a fight.

I think the Celtics are the better team and potentially better constructed (I worry mostly about their depth which same could be said for the Cavs), but I still think it'd be competitive

If we want to lament on the disappointing Knicks loss, I can see convincing yourself that this Cavs roster is swept by a more dominant Celtics team

P.S. Look at Celtics play calling and find the difference between the Celtics and the Cavs. I did it last night and believe it to be even more PNR heavy and especially more ISO heavy. I think our defensive gameplan worked fairly well. Cavs doubled and showed defenders in the driving lane and players did their job in helping and recovering to three point shooters

Idk how similar their last season's roster is to this season's. KP wasn't there, Jrue wasn't there, and White was mostly a starter but not full time.

Smart's gone, Brogdon's gone, G. Williams is gone, R. Williams is gone, and Horford is a year older. As we learned against the Knicks, your starters can win their minutes and you can still lose the series.

Almost always comes down to injuries. Boston is pretty awesome at full health - that was expected.

[jbk1234]

Maybe it's playing in Boston and missing Evan, but I haven't been so miffed about the free-throw disparity until this game where it just felt like the Celtics only had to drive in to the man defending them to get a free trip to the line. 26 attempts for Boston to just 9 for us.

Not to mention during the LeBron years we kept getting told he was too big & strong to get calls, but now our team is built around guys who get knocked in to the stands by a little contact and we still don't get a ton of calls.

I'm not sure what the answer is this week to consistently get the refs to blow their whistle for us, but we might consider looking to add someone who can draw fouls consistently and adding tactics to raise how much our guys do draw.

I mean even with the NBA clamping down on some of his tactics Trae Young is still finding ways to draw nearly as many fouls as he did before ... and everyone on our team is bigger than him.

Is JBB's mouth a factor? It's not clear it's helping.

I don't mind that we're not getting fouls called. I do mind that we're not allowed to play perfectly legal defense. The Cavs are a good defensive team. Rewarding the opposition with unearned free throws negates that advantage and fundamentally alters the game. It doesn't help that JBB's response, every single time, is to surrender the corner three. That allows the officiating crews to avoid accountability.

Let Allen, Mobley, Wade, Strus, etc. foul out in the third quarter for multiple games. Send the tapes in. On the second night of a back-to-back against good teams, pull the starters, and insert the third string for the rest of the game. See how the league likes that.

None of this is possible with JBB coaching for his job though, and the front office has to decide how long JBB coaching for his job is sustainable.

[JujitsuFlip]

We just lost a close game to the Celtics without Mobley and have shown fight last season against a semi-similar roster. I am not saying we would win a series against them, but I'd hope the Cavs could give them a fight.

I think the Celtics are the better team and potentially better constructed (I worry mostly about their depth which same could be said for the Cavs), but I still think it'd be competitive

If we want to lament on the disappointing Knicks loss, I can see convincing yourself that this Cavs roster is swept by a more dominant Celtics team

P.S. Look at Celtics play calling and find the difference between the Celtics and the Cavs. I did it last night and believe it to be even more PNR heavy and especially more ISO heavy. I think our defensive gameplan worked fairly well. Cavs doubled and showed defenders in the driving lane and players did their job in helping and recovering to three point shooters

Idk how similar their last season's roster is to this season's. KP wasn't there, Jrue wasn't there, and White was mostly a starter but not full time.

Smart's gone, Brogdon's gone, G. Williams is gone, R. Williams is gone, and Horford is a year older. As we learned against the Knicks, your starters can win their minutes and you can still lose the series.

I mean for sure but Hauser is a flame thrower from deep, Horford is still fine as an off the bench stretch 5, and then if they needed to go 8 deep which there's no indication in a playoff series they would, Pritchard plays that Delly hustle/utility role well.

My gut instinct really is a sweep in the Celtics favor but I wouldn't be shocked by a gentleman's sweep either. If we took it to 6 games, I'd say kudos but i see little chance that happens.

And to be clear, not reaching the 2nd round this season is still a failure, regardless if we're the 10 seed (currently sitting at 9) or the 2 seed.

[JonFromVA]

Maybe it's playing in Boston and missing Evan, but I haven't been so miffed about the free-throw disparity until this game where it just felt like the Celtics only had to drive in to the man defending them to get a free trip to the line. 26 attempts for Boston to just 9 for us.

Not to mention during the LeBron years we kept getting told he was too big & strong to get calls, but now our team is built around guys who get knocked in to the stands by a little contact and we still don't get a ton of calls.

I'm not sure what the answer is this week to consistently get the refs to blow their whistle for us, but we might consider looking to add someone who can draw fouls consistently and adding tactics to raise how much our guys do draw.

I mean even with the NBA clamping down on some of his tactics Trae Young is still finding ways to draw nearly as many fouls as he did before ... and everyone on our team is bigger than him.

Is JBB's mouth a factor? It's not clear it's helping.

I don't mind that we're not getting fouls called. I do mind that we're not allowed to play perfectly legal defense. The Cavs are a good defensive team. Rewarding the opposition with unearned free throws negates that advantage and fundamentally alters the game. It doesn't help that JBB's response, every single time, is to surrender the corner three. That allows the officiating crews to avoid accountability.

Let Allen, Mobley, Wade, Strus, etc. foul out in the third quarter for multiple games. Send the tapes in. On the second night of a back-to-back against good teams, pull the starters, and insert the third string for the rest of the game. See how the league likes that.

None of this is possible with JBB coaching for his job though, and the front office has to decide how long JBB coaching for his job is sustainable.

I just don't think playing the victim card is productive. We need to be just as aggressive and try to take advantage of however the refs happen to be blowing the whistle on any given night.

I'm fine with forcing the issue, but I wouldn't necessarily do it the way you're suggesting. I'd rather see them try to correct the problem in the game, but our coaches/vets would need to have better ideas than throwing their hands in the air and cursing the refs.

There are ways to manipulate the refs and/or try to discourage the other team from playing a certain way you don't appreciate, and if you know you're going to get a foul called on you, it's old school to make sure you get your money's worth.

Maybe we need to bring back Delly for a retirement tour, but the way he'd just annoy the **** out of opponents until they retaliated and got tossed is just the kind of subterfuge I'm talking about. Even Andy throwing his hair in opponent's faces was a sort of deterrent.

[jbk1234]

Maybe it's playing in Boston and missing Evan, but I haven't been so miffed about the free-throw disparity until this game where it just felt like the Celtics only had to drive in to the man defending them to get a free trip to the line. 26 attempts for Boston to just 9 for us.

Not to mention during the LeBron years we kept getting told he was too big & strong to get calls, but now our team is built around guys who get knocked in to the stands by a little contact and we still don't get a ton of calls.

I'm not sure what the answer is this week to consistently get the refs to blow their whistle for us, but we might consider looking to add someone who can draw fouls consistently and adding tactics to raise how much our guys do draw.

I mean even with the NBA clamping down on some of his tactics Trae Young is still finding ways to draw nearly as many fouls as he did before ... and everyone on our team is bigger than him.

Is JBB's mouth a factor? It's not clear it's helping.

I don't mind that we're not getting fouls called. I do mind that we're not allowed to play perfectly legal defense. The Cavs are a good defensive team. Rewarding the opposition with unearned free throws negates that advantage and fundamentally alters the game. It doesn't help that JBB's response, every single time, is to surrender the corner three. That allows the officiating crews to avoid accountability.

Let Allen, Mobley, Wade, Strus, etc. foul out in the third quarter for multiple games. Send the tapes in. On the second night of a back-to-back against good teams, pull the starters, and insert the third string for the rest of the game. See how the league likes that.

None of this is possible with JBB coaching for his job though, and the front office has to decide how long JBB coaching for his job is sustainable.

I just don't think playing the victim card is productive. We need to be just as aggressive and try to take advantage of however the refs happen to be blowing the whistle on any given night.

I'm fine with forcing the issue, but I wouldn't necessarily do it the way you're suggesting. I'd rather see them try to correct the problem in the game, but our coaches/vets would need to have better ideas than throwing their hands in the air and cursing the refs.

There are ways to manipulate the refs and/or try to discourage the other team from playing a certain way you don't appreciate, and if you know you're going to get a foul called on you, it's old school to make sure you get your money's worth.

Maybe we need to bring back Delly for a retirement tour, but the way he'd just annoy the **** out of opponents until they retaliated and got tossed is just the kind of subterfuge I'm talking about. Even Andy throwing his hair in opponent's faces was a sort of deterrent.

Being able to defend the paint without fouling is the key advantage the Cavs have based on how they're constructed. If the other team can negate that advantage by jumping into Allen and/or Mobley, then foul baiting yourself doesn't get you to even. Your advantage is still surrendered. The other team doesn't have that advantage anyway.

I'd press the point because if the league is just going to abandon the 2021 rule changes it put in place, make them say so. Maybe we do trade Allen or Mobley if that's the case. Maybe the league tells the officiating crews that the rule change was indeed official and to knock it off.

[JonFromVA]

I don't mind that we're not getting fouls called. I do mind that we're not allowed to play perfectly legal defense. The Cavs are a good defensive team. Rewarding the opposition with unearned free throws negates that advantage and fundamentally alters the game. It doesn't help that JBB's response, every single time, is to surrender the corner three. That allows the officiating crews to avoid accountability.

Let Allen, Mobley, Wade, Strus, etc. foul out in the third quarter for multiple games. Send the tapes in. On the second night of a back-to-back against good teams, pull the starters, and insert the third string for the rest of the game. See how the league likes that.

None of this is possible with JBB coaching for his job though, and the front office has to decide how long JBB coaching for his job is sustainable.

I just don't think playing the victim card is productive. We need to be just as aggressive and try to take advantage of however the refs happen to be blowing the whistle on any given night.

I'm fine with forcing the issue, but I wouldn't necessarily do it the way you're suggesting. I'd rather see them try to correct the problem in the game, but our coaches/vets would need to have better ideas than throwing their hands in the air and cursing the refs.

There are ways to manipulate the refs and/or try to discourage the other team from playing a certain way you don't appreciate, and if you know you're going to get a foul called on you, it's old school to make sure you get your money's worth.

Maybe we need to bring back Delly for a retirement tour, but the way he'd just annoy the **** out of opponents until they retaliated and got tossed is just the kind of subterfuge I'm talking about. Even Andy throwing his hair in opponent's faces was a sort of deterrent.

Being able to defend the paint without fouling is the key advantage the Cavs have based on how they're constructed. If the other team can negate that advantage by jumping into Allen and/or Mobley, then foul baiting yourself doesn't get you to even. Your advantage is still surrendered. The other team doesn't have that advantage anyway.

I'd press the point because if the league is just going to abandon the 2021 rule changes it put in place, make them say so. Maybe we do trade Allen or Mobley if that's the case. Maybe the league tells the officiating crews that the rule change was indeed official and to knock it off.

The league isn't going to say anything, and unless media/public are screaming bloody murder, they're not going to tweak their rules emphasis which they will promptly forget about when convenient.

Defending without fouling is a good thing, no doubt about that; but the secret to success is manipulating the refs. The Cavs aren't in a big market and we only occasionally get to enjoy some favorable calls on our own home court; but the formula is the same as always: prove yourself in the playoffs, and the refs will start to give you the benefit of the doubt more often. A first round loss doesn't get that done and complaining is never going to change anything until we've earned at least some of that respect.