2024 Playoffs ECSF: Cavs (4) / Celtics (1) (1-4)

[ijspeelman]

[JujitsuFlip]

Okoro is on fire to start this one.

[cavs4872]

Is Damian Jones that bad that he doesn't sniff the floor and Thompson gets his minutes?

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs give up 40 in the 1st quarter

Allen and Wade would be so important against this 5 out offense.

[ijspeelman]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

[ijspeelman]

Is Damian Jones that bad that he doesn't sniff the floor and Thompson gets his minutes?

I think so. Tristan has given some fairly good minutes

[ijspeelman]

Cavs give up 40 in the 1st quarter

Allen and Wade would be so important against this 5 out offense.

Kornet is killing us bc we just don't have a big to pair w Mobley and we need Mobley to float around and not just tag Kornet for rebounds

Having these guys would really give us some size advantage

[JujitsuFlip]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

I was gonna say, feels like we're down 30, so I'll take down 10.

But idk, i feel like Cavs need to commit to taking something away, Celtics are kinda doing w.e they want.

[ijspeelman]

There is so little you can do when those threes are going in

[ijspeelman]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

I was gonna say, feels like we're down 30, so I'll take down 10.

But idk, i feel like Cavs need to commit to taking something away, Celtics are kinda doing w.e they want.

That's fair. Luckily, I am not the coach bc I think almost any decision you make will either result in more lay-ups or open threes

[ijspeelman]

Okay the offense looked a lot worse in the 3rd lol.

Really need Mobley to make a few of those hooks (not that it would help too much in this game)

Edit: he made two as I was typing this out

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, i can't even be mad about that one.

A bunch of those 3s were contested.

I honestly have no suggestions on improvements. I do think the lineups weren't doing us many favors but with the amount of 2way players that they have, gonna be a tough series.

The biggest adjustment really will be getting Allen and Wade back and plugging them into the starting lineup. Their size and defense is desperately needed.

[jbk1234]

If there's a player in the locker room who can tell JBB that surrendering size at every position because he thinks we can win a shoot out with the Celtics, ain't it, now's the time.

We're not playing the Magic. We're going to need second chance points. We're going to need to limit the number of second chance points they get. TT has owned Horford his entire career and couldn't get on the floor when he was in the game because JBB wouldn't play him with Mobley.

How many times does JBB have to watch White come of a ball screen and hit a contested 3 pointer before telling his players to trap him coming off thst screen and get it out of his hands?

And, my absolute favorite was the triumph of hope over experience lineup of Garland, Merrill, and a PF who is also defensive liability (Morris). I mean it hasn't worked the first 50 times we tried it, but against the best team in the Conference, let's give it a go.

This is going to be the series that gets JBB fired.

[ijspeelman]

If there's a player in the locker room who can tell JBB that surrendering size at every position because he thinks we can win a shoot out with the Celtics, ain't it, now's the time.

We're not playing the Magic. We're going to need second chance points. We're going to need to limit the number of second chance points they get. TT has owned Horford his entire career and couldn't get on the floor when he was in the game because JBB wouldn't play him with Mobley.

How many times does JBB have to watch White come of a ball screen and hit a contested 3 pointer before telling his players to trap him coming off thst screen and get it out of his hands?

And, my absolute favorite was the triumph of hope over experience lineup of Garland, Merrill, and a PF who is also defensive liability (Morris). I mean it hasn't worked the first 50 times we tried it, but against the best team in the Conference, let's give it a go.

This is going to be the series that gets JBB fired.

I'll be honest I don't know how we add a lot of size with the roster we currently have. Only healthy bigger body guy we haven't used is Damian Jones and I don't think we want to see that.

If Allen were healthy, I'd be down to see some funky Tristan minutes with either of them to instill size, but without Allen we don't really have a back-up big if we are giving Tristan big minutes.

Niang feels incredibly unplayable in this series even if he were to hit shots just based on how much they'd exploit him on defense.

The problem with trapping White is that the Celts are good enough to create and find the opening. He can make plays and almost everyone on their roster can make an open three or the extra pass. He was making some incredibly hard threes and I don't know if we can overreact to those.

I'm not saying there isn't things the coaching staff can do (we tried mixing up coverages, line-ups, etc), but this Celtics team has been formed to work against almost any coverage we throw at them.

[jbk1234]

If there's a player in the locker room who can tell JBB that surrendering size at every position because he thinks we can win a shoot out with the Celtics, ain't it, now's the time.

We're not playing the Magic. We're going to need second chance points. We're going to need to limit the number of second chance points they get. TT has owned Horford his entire career and couldn't get on the floor when he was in the game because JBB wouldn't play him with Mobley.

How many times does JBB have to watch White come of a ball screen and hit a contested 3 pointer before telling his players to trap him coming off thst screen and get it out of his hands?

And, my absolute favorite was the triumph of hope over experience lineup of Garland, Merrill, and a PF who is also defensive liability (Morris). I mean it hasn't worked the first 50 times we tried it, but against the best team in the Conference, let's give it a go.

This is going to be the series that gets JBB fired.

I'll be honest I don't know how we add a lot of size with the roster we currently have. Only healthy bigger body guy we haven't used is Damian Jones and I don't think we want to see that.

If Allen were healthy, I'd be down to see some funky Tristan minutes with either of them to instill size, but without Allen we don't really have a back-up big if we are giving Tristan big minutes.

Niang feels incredibly unplayable in this series even if he were to hit shots just based on how much they'd exploit him on defense.

The problem with trapping White is that the Celts are good enough to create and find the opening. He can make plays and almost everyone on their roster can make an open three or the extra pass. He was making some incredibly hard threes and I don't know if we can overreact to those.

I'm not saying there isn't things the coaching staff can do (we tried mixing up coverages, line-ups, etc), but this Celtics team has been formed to work against almost any coverage we throw at them.

You wouldn't necessarily have to play D. Jones, although with Kornet playing drop coverage, I don't hate the idea. You could play a combination of him, TT, or Mobley when Horford rested. What you can't do is take the favorable matchup of TT/Horford, which has the added benefit of putting Mobley on Tatum, and turn that matchup into a disadvantage by only playing TT when Kornet is on the floor. It is precisely because Allen is out that you need TT's minutes to be productive.

Niang is essentially unplayable in the playoffs. Morris is almost as bad. Luckily, the Celtics don't really have backup bigs outside of Kornet and Horford.

I get your point about not overreacting, but I'm not watching a guy go 7/12 from 3 running the same play over and over in a playoff game. We're going to get a healthy diet of that Tatum/White ball screen given how well it worked so I hope they start running some traps if White heats up.

I'm not talking about minor changes or wrinkles here. The fundamental game plan of out-shooting the best three-point shooting team in the NBA needs to be abandoned. It really doesn't matter if Allen is in or out. We're going to need extra possessions this series. We're going to need to limit their possessions. I don't see how you're going to go small, give up size at every position in both units, and win this series.

[KuruptedCav]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

I was gonna say, feels like we're down 30, so I'll take down 10.

But idk, i feel like Cavs need to commit to taking something away, Celtics are kinda doing w.e they want.

JBB has never taken something away from an opponent. Him always letting his opponent dictate the matchups has been a primary frustration for me.

The Cavs during his tenure either out talent or out luck opponents to win. They rarely win games they shouldn’t win.

No real insight. The Celts are constructed to be a two-way 3pt shooting team. You either control the boards and hope it’s a chilly night or you lose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JujitsuFlip]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

I was gonna say, feels like we're down 30, so I'll take down 10.

But idk, i feel like Cavs need to commit to taking something away, Celtics are kinda doing w.e they want.

JBB has never taken something away from an opponent. Him always letting his opponent dictate the matchups has been a primary frustration for me.

The Cavs during his tenure either out talent or out luck opponents to win. They rarely win games they shouldn’t win.

No real insight. The Celts are constructed to be a two-way 3pt shooting team. You either control the boards and hope it’s a chilly night or you lose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I've played against teams like that back in my day. There just isn't a lot you can do with that large of a talent disparity. Especially in a 7 game seires, with a clueless head coach.

If it were March Madness maybe you can surprise a team like the Celtics who don't have much tape on ya and you're free to play an exotic zone with a longer shot clock.

But even still, without Wade and Allen you really need those 2 with Mitchell and Mobley playing a lion share of the minutes. If you get good Garland or unselfish LeVert maybe those 2 are rotating that 5th spot.

But good defenders who can just flat stroke it from 3 in the NBA, good luck.

[jbk1234]

Is it bad that I think we've actually done well despite being down 10 going into the half?

We've forced Celts into some pretty tough shots and they've made'em and I've liked our shot quality. I just don't see us throwing two at Tatum or Brown when they are posted up. The Celts are way too dangerous finding and making open shots

Feels like we just need to make MORE of our open shots lol

I was gonna say, feels like we're down 30, so I'll take down 10.

But idk, i feel like Cavs need to commit to taking something away, Celtics are kinda doing w.e they want.

JBB has never taken something away from an opponent. Him always letting his opponent dictate the matchups has been a primary frustration for me.

The Cavs during his tenure either out talent or out luck opponents to win. They rarely win games they shouldn’t win.

No real insight. The Celts are constructed to be a two-way 3pt shooting team. You either control the boards and hope it’s a chilly night or you lose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The one weakness they have is they're kind of thin in the frontcourt after Porzingis and vulnerable to teams who are not. We just saw the Magic effectively exploit that in our series.

Defensively, you could pick your poison, and say if player X beats us, so be it. The Celtics are susceptible to Tatum or Brown playing hero ball and freezing out their teammates.

Conversely, the Celtics have won 21 straight when White takes more than 12 shots. That 1/3, White/Tatum ball screen with the Cavs giving up size at both positions is going to continue to kill us. Put Mitchell on Brown. Have Strus or Okoro on White with Mobley on Tatum. Disrupt the POA, disrupt their rhythm as a team, and live with Jrue trying to feast on Garland and Brown doing the same on Mitchell.

Mitchell on Brown has the added benefit of possibly negating some of Brown's drawing contact fouls (if not, you have to switch it up, but at least when you send the tape in, it's Mitchell getting shoved).

At no point last night, did we make the Celtics uncomfortable. Outside of Tatum getting mad because he didn't get a couple superstar calls while up by 20, at no point was a single Celtic frustrated. That has to change, it needed to change in-game last night, but that's not the type of coach we have.

[JonFromVA]

JBB can cross his fingers and hope the Celts are over-confident and a bit lazy as well as a bit more tired and brick shots they made in game 1. That might be enough that if Mitchell can go off, we can steal a game, but we haven't played well on the road, so no guarantee we make enough shots.

In theory JBB has some options and he could focus on either playing a bigger lineup *OR* getting more shooters on the floor, but he hesitates to go all in on these things and does not prepare players for contingencies like this.

There are some limited rotational moves where we could go bigger or add more shooting, but what I think is really holding them back is they haven't figured out how to free up their shooters and create good looks consistently. They were able to beat the Magic averaging 96ppg, but that's not going to get it done .vs. the Celtics. So, any rotational moves need to take that in to account. We don't just need to find some hot shooters we need to figure out how we're going to get them open.

Part of our mid-season success was better ball movement, some of it was better screening, and some of it was aggressive shot hunting. We know jbk is going to dismiss what that group achieved, but those principals are still key to running an effective modern offense and we can see the Celtics doing it to us in addition to their advantages in strength & length.

In 2016 we couldn't turn the finals around until we ditched our defensive system. In 2024, I'm afraid this team isn't going anywhere unless they can suddenly discover an offensive identity like they glimpsed pre-All Star break. Alas, this is probably the #1 reason we need a new head coach, right there.

[jbk1234]

George Niang cannot fail, he can only be failed.