Game 31: Cavs @ Mavericks 12/27/2023

[JujitsuFlip]

They're playing inside out a lot thanks to CPJ, Isaac, and others constantly attacking and everyone moving the ball - nothing they can't do with Evan and others if they buy in.

That is a massive "if".

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

Sounds like that is Mitchell and at times Garland.

Still nice to see what Allen can do with 4 perimeter players around him.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think that means Luka has to take that stupid string off he wears around his head.

[toooskies]

Might be the time to sell high on him. Especially since this run is coming when he's playing with 4 perimeter players, just goes to show that Mobley and Allen are a less than ideal fit.

If Mobley doesn't develop a reliable 10-15 foot jumper, I'm not entirely sure Allen is the one we should trade. There is something to be said for being able to put Mobley on Giannis, Butler, or Tatum in a 7 game series, and still have Allen at the 5 spot though. The Knicks really were the worst matchup in the East last year and Mitchell Robinson is out this season. I want to see this squad with one more postseason run.

I don't think Jb is up to snuff for the post season to end any different than the past 2 but i think ownership and the front office are willing to give it another go.

ijs it may be wise to sell high on Allen, if the offer is right, be it February 8th or this summer.

Allen won't be moved for the same reason Capela hasn't been moved. No one is looking for a traditional big.

[JujitsuFlip]

If Mobley doesn't develop a reliable 10-15 foot jumper, I'm not entirely sure Allen is the one we should trade. There is something to be said for being able to put Mobley on Giannis, Butler, or Tatum in a 7 game series, and still have Allen at the 5 spot though. The Knicks really were the worst matchup in the East last year and Mitchell Robinson is out this season. I want to see this squad with one more postseason run.

I don't think Jb is up to snuff for the post season to end any different than the past 2 but i think ownership and the front office are willing to give it another go.

ijs it may be wise to sell high on Allen, if the offer is right, be it February 8th or this summer.

Allen won't be moved for the same reason Capela hasn't been moved. No one is looking for a traditional big.

Well, then like JBK said, maybe Mobley is the one they have to move off of, in the long run. People on the GB have already suggested that in the past.

[jbk1234]

If Mobley doesn't develop a reliable 10-15 foot jumper, I'm not entirely sure Allen is the one we should trade. There is something to be said for being able to put Mobley on Giannis, Butler, or Tatum in a 7 game series, and still have Allen at the 5 spot though. The Knicks really were the worst matchup in the East last year and Mitchell Robinson is out this season. I want to see this squad with one more postseason run.

I don't think Jb is up to snuff for the post season to end any different than the past 2 but i think ownership and the front office are willing to give it another go.

ijs it may be wise to sell high on Allen, if the offer is right, be it February 8th or this summer.

Allen won't be moved for the same reason Capela hasn't been moved. No one is looking for a traditional big.

I mean it's just demonstrably untrue that no teams are interested in acquiring Allen. Both Dallas and the Pelicans were reported to inquire about his availability. Rim protection is like pass protection in that it's importance is obvious in its absence. The top 4 teams in the East and top 3 teams in the West all have really good centers. Teams are less interested in acquiring Capela because he's pretty washed and a little undersized in a league that is trending taller at the 5.

[jbk1234]

They're playing inside out a lot thanks to CPJ, Isaac, and others constantly attacking and everyone moving the ball - nothing they can't do with Evan and others if they buy in.

That is a massive "if".

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

I felt like the team made an effort to make Mobley an offensive hub earlier in the season and the results were pretty mixed. He's still really young and it takes big men longer to develop, but until he can counter smaller players being physical with him, it's going to be rough sledding.

[JonFromVA]

That is a massive "if".

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

Sounds like that is Mitchell and at times Garland.

Still nice to see what Allen can do with 4 perimeter players around him.

Well, if we unlock these guys, they can all be on the perimeter to some extent.

I don't see them doing what they're doing because of spacing and gravity so much as just simply breaking down the defense and finding enough people who can knock down a shot. Also hustle and second chance points. Did you guys know TT led the team in ORtg one season? Those o-boards make a big difference if they don't come at the cost of something else.

The answer is right there if they want it. Everything should level up with more talent, but we just saw the flip side with Luka where when he stopped making every shot and drawing every foul he was being embarrassed on D, getting worn down, missing shots, crying to refs and his teammates weren't able to pick up the slack.

[JonFromVA]

That is a massive "if".

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

I felt like the team made an effort to make Mobley an offensive hub earlier in the season and the results were pretty mixed. He's still really young and it takes big men longer to develop, but until he can counter smaller players being physical with him, it's going to be rough sledding.

Mixed? Yeah, that's how development works but if we invest consistently we'll eventually be rewarded with consistency.

JBB has a hard enough time remembering when players have been on the floor too long, though, it might be too much to expect him to adapt his game plan to get young players opportunities commiserate with their level.

I mean if Evan can't budge Marcus Smart, that'd be perfectly understandable, but it shouldn't be a problem to find him opportunities to post up guys he can deal with. We've seen him do it. Build on the strengths, hide the weaknesses.

Should be simple stuff....

[toooskies]

I don't think Jb is up to snuff for the post season to end any different than the past 2 but i think ownership and the front office are willing to give it another go.

ijs it may be wise to sell high on Allen, if the offer is right, be it February 8th or this summer.

Allen won't be moved for the same reason Capela hasn't been moved. No one is looking for a traditional big.

I mean it's just demonstrably untrue that no teams are interested in acquiring Allen. Both Dallas and the Pelicans were reported to inquire about his availability. Rim protection is like pass protection in that it's importance is obvious in its absence. The top 4 teams in the East and top 3 teams in the West all have really good centers. Teams are less interested in acquiring Capela because he's pretty washed and a little undersized in a league that is trending taller at the 5.

Capela has been on the block since they drafted Okongwu. He may be washed now but wasn't then.

Dallas isn't going to pay any kind of reasonable price for Allen, nor will NOP-- some people there even argue that Valanciunas is better than Allen, and the fit of a total non-shooter next to Zion is only slightly better than one next to Mobley.

[jbk1234]

Allen won't be moved for the same reason Capela hasn't been moved. No one is looking for a traditional big.

I mean it's just demonstrably untrue that no teams are interested in acquiring Allen. Both Dallas and the Pelicans were reported to inquire about his availability. Rim protection is like pass protection in that it's importance is obvious in its absence. The top 4 teams in the East and top 3 teams in the West all have really good centers. Teams are less interested in acquiring Capela because he's pretty washed and a little undersized in a league that is trending taller at the 5.

Capela has been on the block since they drafted Okongwu. He may be washed now but wasn't then.

Dallas isn't going to pay any kind of reasonable price for Allen, nor will NOP-- some people there even argue that Valanciunas is better than Allen, and the fit of a total non-shooter next to Zion is only slightly better than one next to Mobley.

No serious person argues the center who gets played off the floor in the 4th quarter is worth more than Allen because he takes 2 three pointers a game. That's a fiction a minority of the Cavs fanbase tells itself.

All the gushing over our role players would stop if Allen was unavailable during this stretch for the simple fact that we wouldn't be winning. TT''s limitations against a guy like Luka were on display last night. In addition to his defense, Allen accounted for 20% of our scoring and over 50% of our rebounds.

[jbk1234]

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

I felt like the team made an effort to make Mobley an offensive hub earlier in the season and the results were pretty mixed. He's still really young and it takes big men longer to develop, but until he can counter smaller players being physical with him, it's going to be rough sledding.

Mixed? Yeah, that's how development works but if we invest consistently we'll eventually be rewarded with consistency.

JBB has a hard enough time remembering when players have been on the floor too long, though, it might be too much to expect him to adapt his game plan to get young players opportunities commiserate with their level.

I mean if Evan can't budge Marcus Smart, that'd be perfectly understandable, but it shouldn't be a problem to find him opportunities to post up guys he can deal with. We've seen him do it. Build on the strengths, hide the weaknesses.

Should be simple stuff....

In fairness, if the No. 1 priority this year wasn't learning how to beat good teams, then they should've just traded Mitchell with two full seasons left on his contract. That was the primary problem with the Mitchell trade in that the Cavs needed to become a good playoff team in a short time frame when there was good reason to believe Mobley woul6dnt get there in time. Our strength of schedule and avalanche of injuries to start the season didn't help either.

All of that said, players have a say in how it goes and if Mobley didn't spend the offseason working on a 12-15 foot jumper, that's on him. There's a limit on how many possession in close games good teams are going to waste in the name of development. Finally, it is the hope that consistent investment leads to consistent results, but the league is littered with players who struggle with consistency over their entire careers.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well it's not Allen or Mobley who are going to refuse to accept a bigger role in the offense, so simple solution is to trade whoever isn't buying in.

Sounds like that is Mitchell and at times Garland.

Still nice to see what Allen can do with 4 perimeter players around him.

Well, if we unlock these guys, they can all be on the perimeter to some extent.

I don't see them doing what they're doing because of spacing and gravity so much as just simply breaking down the defense and finding enough people who can knock down a shot. Also hustle and second chance points. Did you guys know TT led the team in ORtg one season? Those o-boards make a big difference if they don't come at the cost of something else.

The answer is right there if they want it. Everything should level up with more talent, but we just saw the flip side with Luka where when he stopped making every shot and drawing every foul he was being embarrassed on D, getting worn down, missing shots, crying to refs and his teammates weren't able to pick up the slack.

Shot making is what becomes more difficult in the playoffs, so until all these guys return to the floor healthy and show it on that level, i don't think anything about it is really "simple".

[JonFromVA]

I felt like the team made an effort to make Mobley an offensive hub earlier in the season and the results were pretty mixed. He's still really young and it takes big men longer to develop, but until he can counter smaller players being physical with him, it's going to be rough sledding.

Mixed? Yeah, that's how development works but if we invest consistently we'll eventually be rewarded with consistency.

JBB has a hard enough time remembering when players have been on the floor too long, though, it might be too much to expect him to adapt his game plan to get young players opportunities commiserate with their level.

I mean if Evan can't budge Marcus Smart, that'd be perfectly understandable, but it shouldn't be a problem to find him opportunities to post up guys he can deal with. We've seen him do it. Build on the strengths, hide the weaknesses.

Should be simple stuff....

In fairness, if the No. 1 priority this year wasn't learning how to beat good teams, then they should've just traded Mitchell with two full seasons left on his contract. That was the primary problem with the Mitchell trade in that the Cavs needed to become a good playoff team in a short time frame when there was good reason to believe Mobley woul6dnt get there in time. Our strength of schedule and avalanche of injuries to start the season didn't help either.

All of that said, players have a say in how it goes and if Mobley didn't spend the offseason working on a 12-15 foot jumper, that's on him. There's a limit on how many possession in close games good teams are going to waste in the name of development. Finally, it is the hope that consistent investment leads to consistent results, but the league is littered with players who struggle with consistency over their entire careers.

Again, the key is to play to a players strengths and hide their weaknesses, so even if they never become consistent you keep doing that.

Beating the best teams in the playoffs is tricky because you can't be sure until you get there, but what you can do is try to keep your players healthy, implement habits, systems, nake adjustments; and develop your players so you might get more than you expect later if not sooner.

So in my mind there is no excuse.

Even in the case of Mobley, make sure he's shooting some J's, but do the same with Jarrett because if either can knock them down it would help. But that's not the end of the story, we can still develop how we use them even when those jumpers aren't going down. For instance all an unguarded player has to be able to do is set a screen for a shooter to create a great shot.

It might cost us some games, but its worth it in the long run if the head coach thinks he will still have his job to benefit.

[JonFromVA]

Sounds like that is Mitchell and at times Garland.

Still nice to see what Allen can do with 4 perimeter players around him.

Well, if we unlock these guys, they can all be on the perimeter to some extent.

I don't see them doing what they're doing because of spacing and gravity so much as just simply breaking down the defense and finding enough people who can knock down a shot. Also hustle and second chance points. Did you guys know TT led the team in ORtg one season? Those o-boards make a big difference if they don't come at the cost of something else.

The answer is right there if they want it. Everything should level up with more talent, but we just saw the flip side with Luka where when he stopped making every shot and drawing every foul he was being embarrassed on D, getting worn down, missing shots, crying to refs and his teammates weren't able to pick up the slack.

Shot making is what becomes more difficult in the playoffs, so until all these guys return to the floor healthy and show it on that level, i don't think anything about it is really "simple".

Lots of ways to win playoff games and you just need more of them than your opponent.

We all remember how LeBron carried the Cavs to that game 5 win over the Pistons, but what's forgotten is how the Pistons matched that amazing effort right up until the end. A lot of that was just Chauncey Billups drawing fouls. He can draw fouls even with Ben Wallace at C, but alas they had Chris Webber and his broken knees that season and he had no prayer to stop James.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, if we unlock these guys, they can all be on the perimeter to some extent.

I don't see them doing what they're doing because of spacing and gravity so much as just simply breaking down the defense and finding enough people who can knock down a shot. Also hustle and second chance points. Did you guys know TT led the team in ORtg one season? Those o-boards make a big difference if they don't come at the cost of something else.

The answer is right there if they want it. Everything should level up with more talent, but we just saw the flip side with Luka where when he stopped making every shot and drawing every foul he was being embarrassed on D, getting worn down, missing shots, crying to refs and his teammates weren't able to pick up the slack.

Shot making is what becomes more difficult in the playoffs, so until all these guys return to the floor healthy and show it on that level, i don't think anything about it is really "simple".

Lots of ways to win playoff games and you just need more of them than your opponent.

We all remember how LeBron carried the Cavs to that game 5 win over the Pistons, but what's forgotten is how the Pistons matched that amazing effort right up until the end. A lot of that was just Chauncey Billups drawing fouls. He can draw fouls even with Ben Wallace at C, but alas they had Chris Webber and his broken knees that season and he had no prayer to stop James.

With Jb, if the first thing doesn't work, he doesn't know what to do, even if he's given 2 weeks to prep for a series lol

LeBron is also listed 6'8" 250 lbs, he's the exact archetype this roster is missing.

To the Chauncey point, that's a completely different era of basketball. Outside of him and Boobie no one in that series was shooting 3s with much volume or efficiency. The pioneer was still in college.

[JonFromVA]

Shot making is what becomes more difficult in the playoffs, so until all these guys return to the floor healthy and show it on that level, i don't think anything about it is really "simple".

Lots of ways to win playoff games and you just need more of them than your opponent.

We all remember how LeBron carried the Cavs to that game 5 win over the Pistons, but what's forgotten is how the Pistons matched that amazing effort right up until the end. A lot of that was just Chauncey Billups drawing fouls. He can draw fouls even with Ben Wallace at C, but alas they had Chris Webber and his broken knees that season and he had no prayer to stop James.

With Jb, if the first thing doesn't work, he doesn't know what to do, even if he's given 2 weeks to prep for a series lol

LeBron is also listed 6'8" 250 lbs, he's the exact archetype this roster is missing.

To the Chauncey point, that's a completely different era of basketball. Outside of him and Boobie no one in that series was shooting 3s with much volume or efficiency. The pioneer was still in college.

I just brought up Chauncey for nostalgia... fact is drawing fouls is still an invaluable skill that can win big games when those 3's stop going down.

[JujitsuFlip]

Lots of ways to win playoff games and you just need more of them than your opponent.

We all remember how LeBron carried the Cavs to that game 5 win over the Pistons, but what's forgotten is how the Pistons matched that amazing effort right up until the end. A lot of that was just Chauncey Billups drawing fouls. He can draw fouls even with Ben Wallace at C, but alas they had Chris Webber and his broken knees that season and he had no prayer to stop James.

With Jb, if the first thing doesn't work, he doesn't know what to do, even if he's given 2 weeks to prep for a series lol

LeBron is also listed 6'8" 250 lbs, he's the exact archetype this roster is missing.

To the Chauncey point, that's a completely different era of basketball. Outside of him and Boobie no one in that series was shooting 3s with much volume or efficiency. The pioneer was still in college.

I just brought up Chauncey for nostalgia... fact is drawing fouls is still an invaluable skill that can win big games when those 3's stop going down.

Only if the refs are giving your team a favorable whistle, has not been the case for the Cavs this season.

[JonFromVA]

With Jb, if the first thing doesn't work, he doesn't know what to do, even if he's given 2 weeks to prep for a series lol

LeBron is also listed 6'8" 250 lbs, he's the exact archetype this roster is missing.

To the Chauncey point, that's a completely different era of basketball. Outside of him and Boobie no one in that series was shooting 3s with much volume or efficiency. The pioneer was still in college.

I just brought up Chauncey for nostalgia... fact is drawing fouls is still an invaluable skill that can win big games when those 3's stop going down.

Only if the refs are giving your team a favorable whistle, has not been the case for the Cavs this season.

You have to build a reputation with the refs first and to do that you have to start by being aggressive, being physical, and legitimately drawing calls ... not begging for them.