2023-24 Regular Season

[JujitsuFlip]

We’d benefit from potentially signing DiVincenzo. Supposedly he’s opting out of his Warriors deal

I just wonder how much he wants.

Where’s he play?


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He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

[jbk1234]

I just wonder how much he wants.

Where’s he play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

[JujitsuFlip]

Where’s he play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

[toooskies]

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels's full season numbers had him at 33.2% from 3 and is a career 34.5% guy. If Okoro's not your jam as the starting 3, neither is McDaniels. (Although I could see McDaniels being signed to play some backup 4.)

The problem with DiVincenzo is that while he'll let it fly from outside, he isn't all that accurate on a career measure either-- seems more of a Cedi-level shooter with a 36% career mark, and he got a bit of a bump in the Golden State offense which tends to produce good looks for role players (see Andrew Wiggins). Can't say the same for the Cavs' offense. He's also been a negative in the playoffs overall, in a relatively small sample size-- the Bucks won the title when he got hurt.

We have two real needs: backup big and shooting. The best way to add shooting and add a backup big is via a shooting backup big, whether that's Naz Reid, Thomas Bryant, Mike Muscala, Trey Lyles, Georges Niang, BroLo/Vucevic/Wood/Barnes/PJ Washington in the creative sign-and-trade category. Kevin Love in the "oops" category.

I'm not sure we need a better shooters on the wing than LeVert and Osman (and Okoro if he takes a step forward in reliability). We definitely need better backup bigs.

[JonFromVA]

Where’s he play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

He'd be nice as a depth piece, but what are you willing to pay him?

The bi-annual is expected to be around $4,448,000 and DiVincenzo has a player option of $4,725,000, so, he'd be a nice add at that price but it seems unlikely he'd take a pay-cut to come play for us.

And if we can get an actual wing that can shoot & defend like McDaniels for the MLE, I'd think we'd want to prioritize that?

As interesting as McDaniels is as a potential fit for that role, he's still unproven and I suspect Altman would prefer to add a vet who knows what he's doing in that 3&D role. Just not sure who that would be at this point, unless he can swing a deal for Royce O'Neal.

One big question for Altman is how much is he ready to lean on Garland and Mitchell to defend the point of attack. If he thinks it's time to stop protecting them so much, it would be easier to target a player like O'Neal or Grant Williams that's more of SF/PF than a SF/SG.

[toooskies]

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

He'd be nice as a depth piece, but what are you willing to pay him?

The bi-annual is expected to be around $4,448,000 and DiVincenzo has a player option of $4,725,000, so, he'd be a nice add at that price but it seems unlikely he'd take a pay-cut to come play for us.

And if we can get an actual wing that can shoot & defend like McDaniels for the MLE, I'd think we'd want to prioritize that?

As interesting as McDaniels is as a potential fit for that role, he's still unproven and I suspect Altman would prefer to add a vet who knows what he's doing in that 3&D role. Just not sure who that would be at this point, unless he can swing a deal for Royce O'Neal.

One big question for Altman is how much is he ready to lean on Garland and Mitchell to defend the point of attack. If he thinks it's time to stop protecting them so much, it would be easier to target a player like O'Neal or Grant Williams that's more of SF/PF than a SF/SG.

It's always possible for us to split up the MLE between, say, Trey Lyles and DiVincenzo. Each getting $6m or so. Then toss the BAE $4m at Niang or Muscala or Landale.

[JonFromVA]

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels's full season numbers had him at 33.2% from 3 and is a career 34.5% guy. If Okoro's not your jam as the starting 3, neither is McDaniels. (Although I could see McDaniels being signed to play some backup 4.)

The problem with DiVincenzo is that while he'll let it fly from outside, he isn't all that accurate on a career measure either-- seems more of a Cedi-level shooter with a 36% career mark, and he got a bit of a bump in the Golden State offense which tends to produce good looks for role players (see Andrew Wiggins). Can't say the same for the Cavs' offense. He's also been a negative in the playoffs overall, in a relatively small sample size-- the Bucks won the title when he got hurt.

We have two real needs: backup big and shooting. The best way to add shooting and add a backup big is via a shooting backup big, whether that's Naz Reid, Thomas Bryant, Mike Muscala, Trey Lyles, Georges Niang, BroLo/Vucevic/Wood/Barnes/PJ Washington in the creative sign-and-trade category. Kevin Love in the "oops" category.

I'm not sure we need a better shooters on the wing than LeVert and Osman (and Okoro if he takes a step forward in reliability). We definitely need better backup bigs.

If we go after a shooter, he'd better actually have some gravity to space the floor. If the guy can defend, we have more wiggle room, but he shouldn't break the defense either.

With LeVert and Okoro potentially both back on the team, it is certainly worthwhile to consider that Altman will turn his primary attention to filling other roster holes. I suppose the weird thing about the roster he's constructed is we already have potential answers if they would just fill it.

For instance, Wade and Windler should be providing shooting and length. Our young guys like IMobley, Diakite, and Diop should be providing big man depth. Green and Rubio fill needs if they recover some of their athleticism as expected. And both LeVert and Okoro have at least suggested they might fit well enough if they could smooth off some of the rough edges that have been preventing it.

Which suggests to me Altman will be looking for veteran answers in trades/free-agency rather than more projects and question marks; but IMO this is a situation where talent evaluation combined with a little risk taking can really pay off. Go find that guy coming off his rookie contract who's undervalued, but ready to break out and just needs an opportunity to get serious minutes his old team can't give him.

[JonFromVA]

We need shooting.

He'd be nice as a depth piece, but what are you willing to pay him?

The bi-annual is expected to be around $4,448,000 and DiVincenzo has a player option of $4,725,000, so, he'd be a nice add at that price but it seems unlikely he'd take a pay-cut to come play for us.

And if we can get an actual wing that can shoot & defend like McDaniels for the MLE, I'd think we'd want to prioritize that?

As interesting as McDaniels is as a potential fit for that role, he's still unproven and I suspect Altman would prefer to add a vet who knows what he's doing in that 3&D role. Just not sure who that would be at this point, unless he can swing a deal for Royce O'Neal.

One big question for Altman is how much is he ready to lean on Garland and Mitchell to defend the point of attack. If he thinks it's time to stop protecting them so much, it would be easier to target a player like O'Neal or Grant Williams that's more of SF/PF than a SF/SG.

It's always possible for us to split up the MLE between, say, Trey Lyles and DiVincenzo. Each getting $6m or so. Then toss the BAE $4m at Niang or Muscala or Landale.

Sure, he may even preserve some or all of the MLE for a deal which moves the needle (depending how the cap implications shake out); but at this point I think we're wishing for a big signing with the full MLE. Once we're well in to free-agency and Altman hasn't spent a cent it will be time to kick tires on depth options.

I like the train of thought, though, because I could see adding depth being their identified goal; but the players better be good enough that JBB will actually use them.

[jbk1234]

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint. JBB will do what the front office asks of him or he can start updating his resume. There were much better coaches fired over the last 30 days for far less.

But if our offense remains broken for another year, in the last season before Mitchell makes a decision on an extension, because JBB is still the coach of this team and is doing whatever he wants, then it shouldn't be viewed solely as a JBB problem and should start being viewed as a front office problem.

[cbosh4mvp]

Where’s he play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was with Golden State last season. He's probably a 2 or an undersized 3, he's only 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan. I like his 3 & D potential but I'd rather roll the dice on Jalen McDaniels with his 7 foot wingspan, could fill that Markkanen role the Cavs were desperately missing this season.

We need shooting.

Hey bud, do you think it's time you change your signature? You are only making me look good .

Lol, remember I told you we will revisit this conversation come playoff time. Everything in your signature was 100% correct

For context, your signature shows me saying the following:

cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.

It's almost like a perfect Prophecy I had.

Please refrain from off topic conversations or anything to incite other users.

[JujitsuFlip]

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels's full season numbers had him at 33.2% from 3 and is a career 34.5% guy. If Okoro's not your jam as the starting 3, neither is McDaniels. (Although I could see McDaniels being signed to play some backup 4.)

We have two real needs: backup big and shooting. The best way to add shooting and add a backup big is via a shooting backup big, whether that's Naz Reid, Thomas Bryant, Mike Muscala, Trey Lyles, Georges Niang, BroLo/Vucevic/Wood/Barnes/PJ Washington in the creative sign-and-trade category. Kevin Love in the "oops" category.

I'm not sure we need a better shooters on the wing than LeVert and Osman (and Okoro if he takes a step forward in reliability). We definitely need better backup bigs.

I think it's more so the length, got a guy with a 7 foot wingspan vs a guy with a 6'8" wingspan and is like 6'5" on his best day.

I'd rather have McDaniels than Naz, similar size and shooting but Naz doesn't have the versatility to start next to Mobley and Allen, simultaneously.

Idk how reliable his shooting data is but I'd throw a vet min at Thomas Bryant.

Muscala probably won't be a free agent, maybe think more like Meyers Leonard which is actually a guy I think the Cavs should target.

I've never viewed Niang as a big at 6"7" but if he wanted to sit on the bench like Merrill, I'm fine with trying to pick him up cheap.

Lyles is a guy I've said I like, I'd offer him the BAE.

Vuc is terrible on defense but if he was cheap, why not.

I don't mind Wood but I think he'll ask for way too much money.

Barnes would be cool at SF but again he is like fringe 3&D, better than any option we have but is gonna wanna get absolutely paid, so gotta keep the hard cap in mind. But Cavs lack assets to make that happen anyway.

Washington not worth chasing the restricted FA process.

If the Cavs can acquire Brook Lopez they should trade Allen immediately, he's a perfect fit next to Mobley. Given his age, I doubt he is interested in first round exits though.

I'd say the Knicks series proved the Cavs need not 1 but 2 shooters on the wing, need a starting SF and a super sub wing who can sub in for Mitchell or Garland when they can't hit the broadside of a barn. Or if both are cooking and one of Mobley or Allen are in foul trouble bring in that other wing.

There's no scenario where I want my best acquisition this summer to be for a guy who can't start with the core 4, idc if he's a big who can shoot bc if Okoro and Mobley/ Allen are still out there, then it's still clog the paint time. Cavs need to be able to go 5 out to pull the Mitch Robinson's of the world, outta the paint.

[JonFromVA]

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint. JBB will do what the front office asks of him or he can start updating his resume. There were much better coaches fired over the last 30 days for far less.

But if our offense remains broken for another year, in the last season before Mitchell makes a decision on an extension, because JBB is still the coach of this team and is doing whatever he wants, then it shouldn't be viewed solely as a JBB problem and should start being viewed as a front office problem.

It's like the old saying: "You can have fast, good, or cheap ... but you can only pick 2 out of 3"; except we'd be doing well to get even one of our primary attributes for the MLE.

So, IMO, it's all about the compromises our FO are willing to make.

Every coach and GM want a certain amount of autonomy, but it's to both of their advantage to work together. If they can't then their regime will end in another spat of dysfunction that will once again make the Cavs organization look like a **** show.

[JujitsuFlip]

We need shooting.

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint.

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

[jbk1234]

The guy shot 40% from 3 on his stint with the 76ers, idk how much more shooting you want.

"We need shooting" sure, we also need the guy to not be a turnstile on defense or he'll never see the floor, hence why our best theoretical shooters in Merrill, Wade, and Windler (to a lesser extent Green [not counting game 2]) were parked on the bench in a series where we couldn't even average 100 ppg.

We need shooting but we also need size, defense, rebounding, and physicality. McDaniels can knockout 2 needs in 1. He can start at SF and then slide to 4 with either Mobley or Allen, like Markkanen did. Keep in mind, he only shot 35.8% on his lone season with the Cavs.

JB is only going to play 8 guys in the regular season and 6 or 7 in the post season, who those 8 are, better be versatile. I told ya, Ingles or Seth Curry fit your shooting build, not sure what else they do though.

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint.

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

[JujitsuFlip]

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint.

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

But Mobley and Allen together is already no space, is the point I'm making.

Also, again, I'm not sure personnel was the only issue the Knicks series was lost. The Cavs theoretically had shooters up and down the roster but hate to say it, they didn't see any minutes in the rotation, a very tight rotation at that.

JB isn't gonna change his offense, he's headed into his 5th season, what you see is what you get at this point. Guys who fit the mold you seek (1 way offensive players), were parked on the bench or no longer on the roster. As long as JB has the reigns, if a guy doesn't play defense he won't see the floor and even in some instances, that's not enough.

[jbk1234]

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

But Mobley and Allen together is already no space, is the point I'm making.

Also, again, I'm not sure personnel was the only issue the Knicks series was lost. The Cavs theoretically had shooters up and down the roster but hate to say it, they didn't see any minutes in the rotation, a very tight rotation at that.

JB isn't gonna change his offense, he's headed into his 5th season, what you see is what you get at this point. Guys who fit the mold you seek (1 way offensive players), were parked on the bench or no longer on the roster. As long as JB has the reigns, if a guy doesn't play defense he won't see the floor and even in some instances, that's not enough.

If the front office wants to keep JBB, and allow him continue to make offense a low priority, then the problem isn't actually with JBB. If you cannot sign the players your team needs, because your coach won't play them, then he shouldn't be your coach, and it's your job to know that.

[JujitsuFlip]

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

But Mobley and Allen together is already no space, is the point I'm making.

Also, again, I'm not sure personnel was the only issue the Knicks series was lost. The Cavs theoretically had shooters up and down the roster but hate to say it, they didn't see any minutes in the rotation, a very tight rotation at that.

JB isn't gonna change his offense, he's headed into his 5th season, what you see is what you get at this point. Guys who fit the mold you seek (1 way offensive players), were parked on the bench or no longer on the roster. As long as JB has the reigns, if a guy doesn't play defense he won't see the floor and even in some instances, that's not enough.

If the front office wants to keep JBB, and allow him continue to make offense a low priority, then the problem isn't actually with JBB. If you cannot sign the players your team needs, because your coach won't play them, then he shouldn't be your coach, and it's your job to know that.

I don't disagree with you but since Dan's stroke in 2019, allegedly his son Grant has been driving the ship. If true, he is only 23 and just lost his older brother Nick a couple weeks ago.

Dan owns almost 3/4 of the Cavs. I don't think Usher with his 1% or 2% stake is gonna rock the boat. Plus, he was dapping up the Warriors in the 2016 Finals, so I don't trust his judgement anyway.

Maybe Koby and JB do need to go, and time for sure is of the essence but since that is not the reality we live in, Koby and JB should work together, to find pieces that JB is actually gonna play.

[jbk1234]

But Mobley and Allen together is already no space, is the point I'm making.

Also, again, I'm not sure personnel was the only issue the Knicks series was lost. The Cavs theoretically had shooters up and down the roster but hate to say it, they didn't see any minutes in the rotation, a very tight rotation at that.

JB isn't gonna change his offense, he's headed into his 5th season, what you see is what you get at this point. Guys who fit the mold you seek (1 way offensive players), were parked on the bench or no longer on the roster. As long as JB has the reigns, if a guy doesn't play defense he won't see the floor and even in some instances, that's not enough.

If the front office wants to keep JBB, and allow him continue to make offense a low priority, then the problem isn't actually with JBB. If you cannot sign the players your team needs, because your coach won't play them, then he shouldn't be your coach, and it's your job to know that.

I don't disagree with you but since Dan's stroke in 2019, allegedly his son Grant has been driving the ship. If true, he is only 23 and just lost his older brother Nick a couple weeks ago.

Dan owns almost 3/4 of the Cavs. I don't think Usher with his 1% or 2% stake is gonna rock the boat. Plus, he was dapping up the Warriors in the 2016 Finals, so I don't trust his judgement anyway.

Maybe Koby and JB do need to go, and time for sure is of the essence but since that is not the reality we live in, Koby and JB should work together, to find pieces that JB is actually gonna play.

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

[JujitsuFlip]

If the front office wants to keep JBB, and allow him continue to make offense a low priority, then the problem isn't actually with JBB. If you cannot sign the players your team needs, because your coach won't play them, then he shouldn't be your coach, and it's your job to know that.

I don't disagree with you but since Dan's stroke in 2019, allegedly his son Grant has been driving the ship. If true, he is only 23 and just lost his older brother Nick a couple weeks ago.

Dan owns almost 3/4 of the Cavs. I don't think Usher with his 1% or 2% stake is gonna rock the boat. Plus, he was dapping up the Warriors in the 2016 Finals, so I don't trust his judgement anyway.

Maybe Koby and JB do need to go, and time for sure is of the essence but since that is not the reality we live in, Koby and JB should work together, to find pieces that JB is actually gonna play.

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

[ijspeelman]

I don't disagree with you but since Dan's stroke in 2019, allegedly his son Grant has been driving the ship. If true, he is only 23 and just lost his older brother Nick a couple weeks ago.

Dan owns almost 3/4 of the Cavs. I don't think Usher with his 1% or 2% stake is gonna rock the boat. Plus, he was dapping up the Warriors in the 2016 Finals, so I don't trust his judgement anyway.

Maybe Koby and JB do need to go, and time for sure is of the essence but since that is not the reality we live in, Koby and JB should work together, to find pieces that JB is actually gonna play.

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

The Wade one is the worst for me. It looked like he was going to be a valuable role player at the beginning of the season, but after the injury he was basically unplayable. We are a better team when Wade is on.