Trade Ideas

[JonFromVA]

Regarding Hunter, I have no clue how desperate Atlanta is to move that contract without getting picks back, but we'd better be sure we can do something with him that Atlanta couldn't before assuming it AND that he might enjoy a respite from the injuries that have stunted his career.

The Hawks are going on three consecutive seasons where they've been better with Hunter off the floor than on and before the injuries this wasn't the case and he was looking exactly like what they needed.

[toooskies]

I would not want to pay Hunter his contract, particularly if we have to give up multiple rotation players for him.

[JonFromVA]

I would not want to pay Hunter his contract, particularly if we have to give up multiple rotation players for him.

That was my first concern given how much we're already paying or will be paying our other 4 starters, but it's not as bad as I thought ($20M this season, then $22M, $23M, $25M) running right through his prime.

He is currently out with right knee inflammation, so, it's not like he's had a respite from the injuries that have plagued his career. So, not only do we have to determine he will fit our roster better and be more effective than in Atlanta, but that his injuries will stabilize enough so we can get whatever it is we think that's going to be.

[toooskies]

I would not want to pay Hunter his contract, particularly if we have to give up multiple rotation players for him.

That was my first concern given how much we're already paying or will be paying our other 4 starters, but it's not as bad as I thought ($20M this season, then $22M, $23M, $25M) running right through his prime.

He is currently out with right knee inflammation, so, it's not like he's had a respite from the injuries that have plagued his career. So, not only do we have to determine he will fit our roster better and be more effective than in Atlanta, but that his injuries will stabilize enough so we can get whatever it is we think that's going to be.

His salary still requires a package of Okoro + Niang or LeVert + Wade to acquire while staying out of the tax and I'm already saying no thanks. He isn't good enough to go into the tax. We need the defensive strengths of Okoro or Wade more than we need his overall average-ness.

[jbk1234]

I would not want to pay Hunter his contract, particularly if we have to give up multiple rotation players for him.

That was my first concern given how much we're already paying or will be paying our other 4 starters, but it's not as bad as I thought ($20M this season, then $22M, $23M, $25M) running right through his prime.

He is currently out with right knee inflammation, so, it's not like he's had a respite from the injuries that have plagued his career. So, not only do we have to determine he will fit our roster better and be more effective than in Atlanta, but that his injuries will stabilize enough so we can get whatever it is we think that's going to be.

His salary still requires a package of Okoro + Niang or LeVert + Wade to acquire while staying out of the tax and I'm already saying no thanks. He isn't good enough to go into the tax. We need the defensive strengths of Okoro or Wade more than we need his overall average-ness.

Theoretical Hunter might be, especially if LeVert is the main piece, but chronically injured with resulting diminished athleticism Hunter is not worth his contract. i'd be putting him on OPJ status until further notice.

[JonFromVA]

That was my first concern given how much we're already paying or will be paying our other 4 starters, but it's not as bad as I thought ($20M this season, then $22M, $23M, $25M) running right through his prime.

He is currently out with right knee inflammation, so, it's not like he's had a respite from the injuries that have plagued his career. So, not only do we have to determine he will fit our roster better and be more effective than in Atlanta, but that his injuries will stabilize enough so we can get whatever it is we think that's going to be.

His salary still requires a package of Okoro + Niang or LeVert + Wade to acquire while staying out of the tax and I'm already saying no thanks. He isn't good enough to go into the tax. We need the defensive strengths of Okoro or Wade more than we need his overall average-ness.

Theoretical Hunter might be, especially if LeVert is the main piece, but chronically injured with resulting diminished athleticism Hunter is not worth his contract. i'd be putting him on OPJ status until further notice.

I like to leave possibilities open ... after all, there were fans who felt we overpaid when we S&T'd with Chicago to get Lauri and were pretty unhappy with it until it was known that Nance Jr asked to be traded to a contender.

If there was any reason to believe Hunter's health was going to stabilize and that he'd fit better with the Cavs than the Hawks, the money may not then be the hold up. I just have no reason to believe those things.

[jbk1234]

His salary still requires a package of Okoro + Niang or LeVert + Wade to acquire while staying out of the tax and I'm already saying no thanks. He isn't good enough to go into the tax. We need the defensive strengths of Okoro or Wade more than we need his overall average-ness.

Theoretical Hunter might be, especially if LeVert is the main piece, but chronically injured with resulting diminished athleticism Hunter is not worth his contract. i'd be putting him on OPJ status until further notice.

I like to leave possibilities open ... after all, there were fans who felt we overpaid when we S&T'd with Chicago to get Lauri and were pretty unhappy with it until it was known that Nance Jr asked to be traded to a contender.

If there was any reason to believe Hunter's health was going to stabilize and that he'd fit better with the Cavs than the Hawks, the money may not then be the hold up. I just have no reason to believe those things.

I mean I liked the fit of theoretical Windler and Ty Jerome.

[JonFromVA]

Theoretical Hunter might be, especially if LeVert is the main piece, but chronically injured with resulting diminished athleticism Hunter is not worth his contract. i'd be putting him on OPJ status until further notice.

I like to leave possibilities open ... after all, there were fans who felt we overpaid when we S&T'd with Chicago to get Lauri and were pretty unhappy with it until it was known that Nance Jr asked to be traded to a contender.

If there was any reason to believe Hunter's health was going to stabilize and that he'd fit better with the Cavs than the Hawks, the money may not then be the hold up. I just have no reason to believe those things.

I mean I liked the fit of theoretical Windler and Ty Jerome.

Well, it hasn't been that bad for Hunter. He's actually played in 24 games this season and if all you are looking for is a 6'8" wing with length that can knock down 3's with decent volume and efficiency... he technically fits the bill.

It's when you question why Atlanta would be interested in trading a player who in theory should fit their team like a glove, realize his BPM is a miserable -2.7 (-3.3 for his career) and his +/- and impact numbers are not what they should be for a player who (again in theory) should be providing floor spacing and defense to his team.

Which got me wondering because Isaac's BPM is quite a bit better at -0.9. Nothing to brag about, but still why is Okoro so much better? There is a team element to BPM in that it divvies up a teams overall offensive efficiency, but Atlanta at 118.3 pp100 has more to spread around than the Cavs at 115.2. It seems like Hunter just isn't doing much more than shooting 3's as far as the box score can see.

[jbk1234]

I like to leave possibilities open ... after all, there were fans who felt we overpaid when we S&T'd with Chicago to get Lauri and were pretty unhappy with it until it was known that Nance Jr asked to be traded to a contender.

If there was any reason to believe Hunter's health was going to stabilize and that he'd fit better with the Cavs than the Hawks, the money may not then be the hold up. I just have no reason to believe those things.

I mean I liked the fit of theoretical Windler and Ty Jerome.

Well, it hasn't been that bad for Hunter. He's actually played in 24 games this season and if all you are looking for is a 6'8" wing with length that can knock down 3's with decent volume and efficiency... he technically fits the bill.

It's when you question why Atlanta would be interested in trading a player who in theory should fit their team like a glove, realize his BPM is a miserable -2.7 (-3.3 for his career) and his +/- and impact numbers are not what they should be for a player who (again in theory) should be providing floor spacing and defense to his team.

Which got me wondering because Isaac's BPM is quite a bit better at -0.9. Nothing to brag about, but still why is Okoro so much better? There is a team element to BPM in that it divvies up a teams overall offensive efficiency, but Atlanta at 118.3 pp100 has more to spread around than the Cavs at 115.2. It seems like Hunter just isn't doing much more than shooting 3's as far as the box score can see.

Raw BPM is a projection that often doesn't match up with +/- or on/off. Even RBPM is dubious as its methodology is basically considered proprietary.

[JujitsuFlip]

Theoretical Hunter might be, especially if LeVert is the main piece, but chronically injured with resulting diminished athleticism Hunter is not worth his contract. i'd be putting him on OPJ status until further notice.

I like to leave possibilities open ... after all, there were fans who felt we overpaid when we S&T'd with Chicago to get Lauri and were pretty unhappy with it until it was known that Nance Jr asked to be traded to a contender.

If there was any reason to believe Hunter's health was going to stabilize and that he'd fit better with the Cavs than the Hawks, the money may not then be the hold up. I just have no reason to believe those things.

I mean I liked the fit of theoretical Windler and Ty Jerome.

Poor guys.

[JonFromVA]

I mean I liked the fit of theoretical Windler and Ty Jerome.

Well, it hasn't been that bad for Hunter. He's actually played in 24 games this season and if all you are looking for is a 6'8" wing with length that can knock down 3's with decent volume and efficiency... he technically fits the bill.

It's when you question why Atlanta would be interested in trading a player who in theory should fit their team like a glove, realize his BPM is a miserable -2.7 (-3.3 for his career) and his +/- and impact numbers are not what they should be for a player who (again in theory) should be providing floor spacing and defense to his team.

Which got me wondering because Isaac's BPM is quite a bit better at -0.9. Nothing to brag about, but still why is Okoro so much better? There is a team element to BPM in that it divvies up a teams overall offensive efficiency, but Atlanta at 118.3 pp100 has more to spread around than the Cavs at 115.2. It seems like Hunter just isn't doing much more than shooting 3's as far as the box score can see.

Raw BPM is a projection that often doesn't match up with +/- or on/off. Even RBPM is dubious as its methodology is basically considered proprietary.

Are you thinking of APM and RAPM?

BPM is a relatively simple box score estimation of +/-, basically PER done by someone with a better understanding of linear regression modelling than John Hollinger when he tossed PER together to try to come up with a box rating that passed his "eye test".

It's not dubious or even a mystery even if it's not particularly clear to me why it's dinging Hunter so much harder than Okoro. The answer is in the numbers, I'm just not sure which.

[jbk1234]

Well, it hasn't been that bad for Hunter. He's actually played in 24 games this season and if all you are looking for is a 6'8" wing with length that can knock down 3's with decent volume and efficiency... he technically fits the bill.

It's when you question why Atlanta would be interested in trading a player who in theory should fit their team like a glove, realize his BPM is a miserable -2.7 (-3.3 for his career) and his +/- and impact numbers are not what they should be for a player who (again in theory) should be providing floor spacing and defense to his team.

Which got me wondering because Isaac's BPM is quite a bit better at -0.9. Nothing to brag about, but still why is Okoro so much better? There is a team element to BPM in that it divvies up a teams overall offensive efficiency, but Atlanta at 118.3 pp100 has more to spread around than the Cavs at 115.2. It seems like Hunter just isn't doing much more than shooting 3's as far as the box score can see.

Raw BPM is a projection that often doesn't match up with +/- or on/off. Even RBPM is dubious as its methodology is basically considered proprietary.

Are you thinking of APM and RAPM?

BPM is a relatively simple box score estimation of +/-, basically PER done by someone with a better understanding of linear regression modelling than John Hollinger when he tossed PER together to try to come up with a box rating that passed his "eye test".

It's not dubious or even a mystery even if it's not particularly clear to me why it's dinging Hunter so much harder than Okoro. The answer is in the numbers, I'm just not sure which.

There's always a significant delta between BPM and +/- and on/off with certain players which suggests that there's a flaw with the BPM model to me anyway.

I meant RPM which is basically an ESPN stat.

[JonFromVA]

Raw BPM is a projection that often doesn't match up with +/- or on/off. Even RBPM is dubious as its methodology is basically considered proprietary.

Are you thinking of APM and RAPM?

BPM is a relatively simple box score estimation of +/-, basically PER done by someone with a better understanding of linear regression modelling than John Hollinger when he tossed PER together to try to come up with a box rating that passed his "eye test".

It's not dubious or even a mystery even if it's not particularly clear to me why it's dinging Hunter so much harder than Okoro. The answer is in the numbers, I'm just not sure which.

There's always a significant delta between BPM and +/- and on/off with certain players which suggests that there's a flaw with the BPM model to me anyway.

I meant RPM which is basically an ESPN stat.

The flaw in BPM is that box score stats do not provide a complete picture of what happened in a game, but I don't use it in place of stats that do. I use it as a simple check on box score stats. That it has a team component muddies the water somewhat.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.netsdaily.com/2024/1/20/24044962/dorian-finney-smith-sanguine-about-trade-rumors

Well, the asking price seems to still be high, which means no DFS. Cavs don't have 2 firsts to offer but even if they did, i wouldn't give that for him.

[JujitsuFlip]

I wish the Lakers would hold off until the summer to pursue Mitchell. 3 picks plus players sounds great but Cavs aren't gonna do it by the 8th.

[jbk1234]

I wish the Lakers would hold off until the summer to pursue Mitchell. 3 picks plus players sounds great but Cavs aren't gonna do it by the 8th.

I hope the Cavs play well in the postseason and Mitchell extends. Also, the Lakers aren't in a position to wait until the summer and once they extend Mitchell, those picks will look very different.

[JujitsuFlip]

I wish the Lakers would hold off until the summer to pursue Mitchell. 3 picks plus players sounds great but Cavs aren't gonna do it by the 8th.

I hope the Cavs play well in the postseason and Mitchell extends. Also, the Lakers aren't in a position to wait until the summer and once they extend Mitchell, those picks will look very different.

You think Cavs postseason success or lack thereof influences weather Mitchell extends this summer?

[jbk1234]

I wish the Lakers would hold off until the summer to pursue Mitchell. 3 picks plus players sounds great but Cavs aren't gonna do it by the 8th.

I hope the Cavs play well in the postseason and Mitchell extends. Also, the Lakers aren't in a position to wait until the summer and once they extend Mitchell, those picks will look very different.

You think Cavs postseason success or lack thereof influences weather Mitchell extends this summer?

Absolutely.

[JujitsuFlip]

I hope the Cavs play well in the postseason and Mitchell extends. Also, the Lakers aren't in a position to wait until the summer and once they extend Mitchell, those picks will look very different.

You think Cavs postseason success or lack thereof influences weather Mitchell extends this summer?

Absolutely.

Oof, i hope not. Looks like they're on a collusion course for a 4/5 rematch with the Knicks.

[JonFromVA]

I hope the Cavs play well in the postseason and Mitchell extends. Also, the Lakers aren't in a position to wait until the summer and once they extend Mitchell, those picks will look very different.

You think Cavs postseason success or lack thereof influences weather Mitchell extends this summer?

Absolutely.

I would presume everything influences Mitchell's decision until we hear otherwise.

If there's something going on behind the scenes that the media is hearing, well, they're just going to have to be a little more specific. They can't all believe this and yet all refuse to give a single detail about why. The source of the rumor may trace back to a very specific thing someone has heard that may or may not even hold water at this point in time.

I really don't believe we gave up what we did for him without at least an inkling that he'd give us a fair shake, and if he wanted out, all he ever had to do was ask (preferably quietly) and we'd try to move him to a team he prefers.