2022-23 Regular Season

[jasonxxx102]

Someone make an Isaac Okoro apology form

He was given an opportunity and he's stepped up. Not even just because of the game winner but he's shooting 44% from 3 since the beginning of the year. Playing elite on ball defense as always and he's added a little bit of attacking the basket and finishing so he's not just posted in the corner.

Guys aren't leaving him as wide open, he's attacking closeouts, some improved passing/awareness.

Props to him

[toooskies]

Someone make an Isaac Okoro apology form

He was given an opportunity and he's stepped up. Not even just because of the game winner but he's shooting 44% from 3 since the beginning of the year. Playing elite on ball defense as always and he's added a little bit of attacking the basket and finishing so he's not just posted in the corner.

Guys aren't leaving him as wide open, he's attacking closeouts, some improved passing/awareness.

Props to him

There's an apology form over on reddit, if you'd like. (One for Caris too.)

He has always attacked closeouts though, though, or made a quick pass to another open player.

Happy for him. Let's hope he keeps the momentum through the playoffs.

[jasonxxx102]

Someone make an Isaac Okoro apology form

He was given an opportunity and he's stepped up. Not even just because of the game winner but he's shooting 44% from 3 since the beginning of the year. Playing elite on ball defense as always and he's added a little bit of attacking the basket and finishing so he's not just posted in the corner.

Guys aren't leaving him as wide open, he's attacking closeouts, some improved passing/awareness.

Props to him

There's an apology form over on reddit, if you'd like. (One for Caris too.)

He has always attacked closeouts though, though, or made a quick pass to another open player.

Happy for him. Let's hope he keeps the momentum through the playoffs.

I was just joking about the apology form, saying it in jest as like the only okoro supporter on here lol

I don't really remember much of it from last season, has really stood out to me so far this year. More decisive at minimum, I guess

[JujitsuFlip]

If Cavs win 2 of their final 7 games they clinch a playoff berth for the first time without LeBron in 25 years and snap their playoff drought of 5 years.

In order to guarantee home court advantage in the first round, the Cavs have to win 5 of their final 7 games.

https://www.wkyc.com/amp/article/sports/nba/cavaliers/cleveland-cavaliers-magic-number-clinch-playoffs-2023/95-4a82af60-c3d0-49f8-bf36-a838de32ed0b

This article is saying now 1 Cavs win or 1 Nets loss and Cavs avoid the play-in. It also says 3 wins is the magic number to clinch the 4 seed, then we can start resting guys.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs signed Merrill to a multi year contract, idk the details yet.

JB doesn't play him (or Green) but kudos to him for securing a deal.

Most likely only partial guarantees, but I guess he could hang well enough in practice that we decided he was at least as good a bet going forward as Windler.

Spotrac finally has the info, he signed a 3 year $5,012,231 deal ($850,000 guaranteed this season). Final 2 seasons are non-guaranteed.

Next season is $1.99 million and the final season is $2.16 million. Very low risk deal, i like it. Koby knows how to structure these back end of the bench guys deals.

[JonFromVA]

Cavs signed Merrill to a multi year contract, idk the details yet.

JB doesn't play him (or Green) but kudos to him for securing a deal.

Most likely only partial guarantees, but I guess he could hang well enough in practice that we decided he was at least as good a bet going forward as Windler.

Spotrac finally has the info, he signed a 3 year $5,012,231 deal ($850,000 guaranteed this season). Final 2 seasons are non-guaranteed.

Next season is $1.99 million and the final season is $2.16 million. Very low risk deal, i like it. Koby knows how to structure these back end of the bench guys deals.

Yep, never doubted it. The Cavs are always looking for little advantages they can gain, even if it's just to make playing for Canton more attractive because we can get the player some extra money above g-league pay and in return get something of great value if he proves can contribute or at the very least a non-guaranteed trade chip.

[ijspeelman]

"[On clinching a playoff-spot] You want to appreciate every step along the way," Mitchell said. "It's definitely a blessing. I don't want to downplay the moment. But in the same token, and I told the guys in there, this is what you just come to expect. You made your first one — appreciate it, enjoy it, celebrate it for the city, for the organization, for your individual guys who have made it. But at the same token, like, three seeds in play. And that’s the goal. That’s the focus. And we should come to a point now where that’s what is expected of us: making the playoffs and continuously being here and continuously pushing forward.” -The Athletic

Read on Twitter

They are gunning for that 3 seed. It basically requires us to win out and for the 6ers to falter during their rough schedule at the end of the season. I like the push though even if its not probable even if we do win out.

[JujitsuFlip]

"[On clinching a playoff-spot] You want to appreciate every step along the way," Mitchell said. "It's definitely a blessing. I don't want to downplay the moment. But in the same token, and I told the guys in there, this is what you just come to expect. You made your first one — appreciate it, enjoy it, celebrate it for the city, for the organization, for your individual guys who have made it. But at the same token, like, three seeds in play. And that’s the goal. That’s the focus. And we should come to a point now where that’s what is expected of us: making the playoffs and continuously being here and continuously pushing forward.” -The Athletic

Read on Twitter

They are gunning for that 3 seed. It basically requires us to win out and for the 6ers to falter during their rough schedule at the end of the season. I like the push though even if its not probable even if we do win out.

I think it is a horrible strategy but from the competitor standpoint, I get it.

I for one would choose health and the favorable matchup.

[ijspeelman]

I for one would choose health and the favorable matchup.

If I had the choice of Knicks or Heat, I think I'd choose the Heat as I just don't trust their offense especially against our defense. But, I understand the argument against wanting to go against them.

[JujitsuFlip]

I for one would choose health and the favorable matchup.

If I had the choice of Knicks or Heat, I think I'd choose the Heat as I just don't trust their offense especially against our defense. But, I understand the argument against wanting to go against them.

I think the Heat beat the Cavs in a 7 game series, personally. Spo is for sure gonna out coach JB. Plus they have nearly 500 playoff games worth of playoff expierence in their rotation vs our combined 82 games of playoff expierence in the rotation (mostly from Mitchell).

I'm good on that, I'll take the Knicks + health and essentially a walk to the 2nd round.

[toooskies]

I think the most important thing for this team to be doing is winning. Focus on the winning and let the chips fall where they may.

I think we'd beat both the Heat and the Knicks but the Heat might take someone out on the way.

[jasonxxx102]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

[ijspeelman]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

I think your sentiment is shared by a decent amount of Cavs fans.

Personally, I think he's earned himself another season or two with this current iteration because of his help getting everyone to buy into the defensive side of the ball. I'd say Garland and LeVert (and probably Mitchell) are having career years on that end contributing to the league leading defense.

Our offense, while not close to perfect, is top 10 in the NBA with a possibility of raising higher in the next couple of games. I do believe in the playoffs that our offense is pretty exploitable and that is why this isn't our year imo.

I think the best way to scale our offense is to add shooters which is a luxury we've barely had in JB's tenure. I'm hoping we can get a better sample of what the highest level offense JB can muster looks like. If its top 7-8 with a top 3 defense, I don't know how you sack the guy unless we are wildly under performing in the win-column/play-offs.

I see the argument for getting this out of the way early (hence the constant comparisons to him and the Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr swap), but I also think JB has earned his respect with the FO.

[JonFromVA]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

I'm actually encouraged we're doing this well when we have so little shooting and floor spacing and I see some signs of growth in our offense. Little stuff, like Allen screening to help Isaac get off the game winner the other day. The big to big passing is very nice, and of course we lead the league in dunks.

The focus on winning through defense is a very good discipline for a young team with championship aspirations.

As for scaling, that's easy ... we're starting 3 guys who are 23 and under, and if you think we owe our 9th ranked offense to Mitchell, we have a 115.2 offensive rating when he's off the floor. That would tie us for 13th with the Bucks and Suns. otoh, Without Garland on the floor, we're 25th.

JBB (who's a relatively young coach at 44) shouldn't be judged by his mistakes or failures, but rather by his growth or lack thereof. He seems like a stubborn guy and that's not necessarily a bad thing unless it inhibits growth in the long-term.

[JonFromVA]

I see the argument for getting this out of the way early (hence the constant comparisons to him and the Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr swap), but I also think JB has earned his respect with the FO.

Just want to point out that Jackson wasn't fired for how he managed the players, but for pretty much everything else.

[JujitsuFlip]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

I agree but do not think the Cavs will can him, unfortunately.

The only hope is Mitchell, Allen, and to a lesser extent Mobley re-sign and once they do fire JB while they still have a decent window, contract wise to compete with a new regimen.

JB is very much a Mark Jackson/Brett Brown type.

[jasonxxx102]

Thanks for the comments guys. Sometimes it's just frustrating watching the Cavs offense. It's so "old school" and seems like JB is the kind of guy that isn't interesting in evolving it to fit the modern game. I do acknowledge that it's probably partially due to the lack of wing shooters but also I think it's a lot of scheme.

I think Mobley has the passing chops to be a DHO hub, or a lite version of what Sabonis is in Sacramento. He's super cerebral and sees the game unlike most other guys. Add another shooter and you have amazing versatility with Garland/Mitchell who can both play on and off ball.

This team is built to contend and it really feels like they peaked with JB at the helm as crazy as that sounds.

I don't think Mobley needs to be a 35%+ pull up 3pt shooter to be one of the best players in the league, he's that good. Allen is a really good piece but I wouldn't be upset if they moved on and put Mobley at the 5 in a couple years.

I don't think it will be an easy 1st round but getting bounced would be a disaster. No issues with losing to Boston/Milwaukee/Philly those are just better teams with better star players.

[ijspeelman]

Thanks for the comments guys. Sometimes it's just frustrating watching the Cavs offense. It's so "old school" and seems like JB is the kind of guy that isn't interesting in evolving it to fit the modern game. I do acknowledge that it's probably partially due to the lack of wing shooters but also I think it's a lot of scheme.

I think Mobley has the passing chops to be a DHO hub, or a lite version of what Sabonis is in Sacramento. He's super cerebral and sees the game unlike most other guys. Add another shooter and you have amazing versatility with Garland/Mitchell who can both play on and off ball.

This team is built to contend and it really feels like they peaked with JB at the helm as crazy as that sounds.

I don't think Mobley needs to be a 35%+ pull up 3pt shooter to be one of the best players in the league, he's that good. Allen is a really good piece but I wouldn't be upset if they moved on and put Mobley at the 5 in a couple years.

I don't think it will be an easy 1st round but getting bounced would be a disaster. No issues with losing to Boston/Milwaukee/Philly those are just better teams with better star players.

The bolded is the biggest thing that is odd we haven't seen much of. When players leave EMo wide open for a three, we should be having Garland/Mitchell/another shooter run to him for a quick screen and potential open three or lane.

[toooskies]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

First, take a moment and realize that JBB has coached one of the youngest teams in the league and had them play best-in-the-league defense. He's starting three guys on their rookie contracts and has the #1 defense.

I think we take a lot fewer shots late in the clock ever since we picked up the tempo on offense and got into our actions early in the clock. I think the issue was less on JBB than it was the team, and JBB recognized it and brought the team out of it. Good coaching job!

JBB has made hard rotation calls. He let Love struggle for a long time before benching him. Then he stuck to his guns. It wasn't an injury thing, it was a performance thing. He's repeatedly played a guy, done the evaluation of the guy in the role, and changed it when it wasn't working. That goes for LeVert winning the SF job then moving to the bench; going to Lamar at SF, then Okoro; restricting minutes of Okoro early, Lamar in the middle, and Love and Wade in the second half of the season when they've struggled before shaking things up.

Being flexible enough to play defenses with the personnel he has. Whether that was three seven footers last year or playing super-small when one of Allen or Mobley sits, and still running effective offense and defense.

JBB is running an offense very few other teams in the league can run. It generates the most dunks in the league. We have two great finishers in Allen and Mobley and JBB's offense takes advantage of that. We're a top 10 offense (and may rise as we finish with a soft schedule) and the top defense.

What exactly are you expecting JBB to do? Championship coach Ty Lue has been starting Morris through 65 games and seeing a severe decline in his play and several similar-tier players ready to take his spot from the bench. Championship coach Steve Kerr is barely over .500 with the defending champions who have the highest payroll in basketball.

I love the job JBB has done and continues to do. He doesn't overreact to a few bad games but is honest after a few. He runs unique offenses, tries lots of things with different lineups, and usually gives guys chances to succeed when they're deserving of them. Somehow he's gotten Garland, Mobley, Allen, Mitchell, and Okoro to all be playing the best basketball of their careers. He's gotten LeVert to be playing the most unselfish basketball of his career. Getting Rubio up to speed was necessary for the postseason and he navigated that about as well as you could expect.

The Cavs have a top 10 offense because Allen, Okoro, Mitchell, Mobley, and Garland are all really efficient shooters. They're all at 59% TS or better. (Note that I ordered them above from highest to lowest TS% efficiency-- an Okoro shot is one of the offense's better shots!) Because they're all very good basketball players, but also because they all are great at setting up teammates. Then we have LeVert and Rubio off the bench who also are really efficient at setting up teammates, and LeVert in particular has bought into setting up teammates rather than getting his own. Very good coaching.

And ultimately, we've hit an awesome balance between developing young players while still emphasizing winning. Mobley has the leeway to shoot 3s even though they're not going in right now. Okoro and Stevens are walking the path of becoming 3-and-D guys and you see their year-over-year progress. Vets like Lopez and Neto and Green aren't simply given minutes because they're veterans, but they can produce when called upon.

The hardest issue is balancing Mitchell and Garland in the offense and they're both playing well with each other. Mitchell's biggest problem is doing too much when he's out there without Garland. I feel like Garland and Mitchell are playing off of each other much better than at the beginning of the season and that's a credit to both them and the team.

Notice how the vibes have shifted since Love was bought out-- if anything they got better! Despite the veteran "leader" leaving the team for purely selfish reasons! 10-5 since then, despite missing Allen for a handful of those games.

Cavs are definitely surpassing expectations for the second consecutive year (we just cashed in the "over" on team wins for 2022-23 with six games to play). Replacing the coach is crazy.

Let's at least wait to see how he coaches in a playoff series before we declare he can't coach in a playoff series.

[jasonxxx102]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Would love to get others perspectives on it.

I think the Cavs have outgrown JB. I give him huge credit to what he has built, the culture, the attitudes, really helping develop our young guys. He's been great so far.

I don't think his offense is going to be able to put the Cavs over the edge. It's too slow, too plain, too iso heavy. There's little to no ball movement and too often guys are having to chuck bad 3s late in the clock. Or having to rely on Mitchell to bail us out and bring the Cavs back late in games.

I doubt the Cavs move on from him even if they lose in the 1st round but I think the conversations need to start being had. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I know the Cavs have a top10 offense (which is kinda unbelievable because that doesn't at all match the eye test, just a testament to how good Mitchell is.) but I don't see how this team really scales.

First, take a moment and realize that JBB has coached one of the youngest teams in the league and had them play best-in-the-league defense. He's starting three guys on their rookie contracts and has the #1 defense.

I think we take a lot fewer shots late in the clock ever since we picked up the tempo on offense and got into our actions early in the clock. I think the issue was less on JBB than it was the team, and JBB recognized it and brought the team out of it. Good coaching job!

JBB has made hard rotation calls. He let Love struggle for a long time before benching him. Then he stuck to his guns. It wasn't an injury thing, it was a performance thing. He's repeatedly played a guy, done the evaluation of the guy in the role, and changed it when it wasn't working. That goes for LeVert winning the SF job then moving to the bench; going to Lamar at SF, then Okoro; restricting minutes of Okoro early, Lamar in the middle, and Love and Wade in the second half of the season when they've struggled before shaking things up.

Being flexible enough to play defenses with the personnel he has. Whether that was three seven footers last year or playing super-small when one of Allen or Mobley sits, and still running effective offense and defense.

JBB is running an offense very few other teams in the league can run. It generates the most dunks in the league. We have two great finishers in Allen and Mobley and JBB's offense takes advantage of that. We're a top 10 offense (and may rise as we finish with a soft schedule) and the top defense.

What exactly are you expecting JBB to do? Championship coach Ty Lue has been starting Morris through 65 games and seeing a severe decline in his play and several similar-tier players ready to take his spot from the bench. Championship coach Steve Kerr is barely over .500 with the defending champions who have the highest payroll in basketball.

I love the job JBB has done and continues to do. He doesn't overreact to a few bad games but is honest after a few. He runs unique offenses, tries lots of things with different lineups, and usually gives guys chances to succeed when they're deserving of them. Somehow he's gotten Garland, Mobley, Allen, Mitchell, and Okoro to all be playing the best basketball of their careers. He's gotten LeVert to be playing the most unselfish basketball of his career. Getting Rubio up to speed was necessary for the postseason and he navigated that about as well as you could expect.

The Cavs have a top 10 offense because Allen, Okoro, Mitchell, Mobley, and Garland are all really efficient shooters. They're all at 59% TS or better. (Note that I ordered them above from highest to lowest TS% efficiency-- an Okoro shot is one of the offense's better shots!) Because they're all very good basketball players, but also because they all are great at setting up teammates. Then we have LeVert and Rubio off the bench who also are really efficient at setting up teammates, and LeVert in particular has bought into setting up teammates rather than getting his own. Very good coaching.

And ultimately, we've hit an awesome balance between developing young players while still emphasizing winning. Mobley has the leeway to shoot 3s even though they're not going in right now. Okoro and Stevens are walking the path of becoming 3-and-D guys and you see their year-over-year progress. Vets like Lopez and Neto and Green aren't simply given minutes because they're veterans, but they can produce when called upon.

The hardest issue is balancing Mitchell and Garland in the offense and they're both playing well with each other. Mitchell's biggest problem is doing too much when he's out there without Garland. I feel like Garland and Mitchell are playing off of each other much better than at the beginning of the season and that's a credit to both them and the team.

Notice how the vibes have shifted since Love was bought out-- if anything they got better! Despite the veteran "leader" leaving the team for purely selfish reasons! 10-5 since then, despite missing Allen for a handful of those games.

Cavs are definitely surpassing expectations for the second consecutive year (we just cashed in the "over" on team wins for 2022-23 with six games to play). Replacing the coach is crazy.

Let's at least wait to see how he coaches in a playoff series before we declare he can't coach in a playoff series.

appreciate the post, I certainly don't feel as over the moon about the offense as you do. I do think JB has done a really great job so far.

I do want to expand upon something specific in here tho and it's the bolded part. I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this. To me it seems like this is the most basic, vanilla offense you could possibly have and it's buoyed by Mitchell being so amazing. I don't have second spectrum so I can't get into the specific sets but like anecdotally I can count on 1 hand how many sets I've seen the Cavs run. There's absolutely no offensive flow. It's very ball dominant and stagnant. It relies on having a superstar shot creator to bail us out too often.