Game 67: Celtics @ Cavs 3/6/2023

[afarmenian]

Also, I’d like to give JB some props for choosing Stevens over Allen to end the game. I was complaining as soon as we were at 4 minutes left and Allen wasn’t coming back in, but it paid off. Allen was having a garbage game up to that point, but I would normally still prefer an off-form to Stevens anytime, but he really was a huge difference maker.

Maybe Lamar’s the back-up big we’ll slot in occasionally?

I'm a little concerned the Cavs shot distribution looked exactly like what the Celtics wanted it to look like and it only backfired because Stevens is a hustle guy while they all had dead legs after last night's double overtime.

This roster needs at least one more shooter and JBB's probably not the guy to get us to the promised land. I don't know if there's a coach out there who Mitchell respects enough to listen to, but at some point he's really going to have to make more of an effort to get his teammates going early in big games.

Getting the other guys going is going to vary from game to game, opponent to opponent, and opponent game plan to game plan; but Darius is well equipped to handle that role as long as he doesn't settle.

Also we've made an investment in Ricky Rubio and perhaps even Danny Green ... two guys coming off a major injury that players may need two years to recover from (assuming they do). If JBB wasn't so locked in to his rotation, I'd love to see him give Neto some run to see how he'd do next to Mitchell when Garland is off; but seems we have ZERO lineup data for that pairing.

There's a number of things a player can do when the defense is ignoring them and I have no problem giving Lamar credit for using his energy to take advantage and bring the team a spark. Something players off the bench are supposed to do.

speaking of lineup data, I am baffled why he doesnt go with Garland with the bench unit over Mitchell. It just seems like a no brainer that you would want more of a true point guard with that group and let Garland get them going with a more balanced offensive attack. Just looking at some 5 man data it looks like Garland seems to really mesh with Stevens and Levert more than Mitchell.

The bench production couldnt get worse how is this man not trying different options. The main guys you play with the bench can be a huge factor in that units production.

[JonFromVA]

I'm a little concerned the Cavs shot distribution looked exactly like what the Celtics wanted it to look like and it only backfired because Stevens is a hustle guy while they all had dead legs after last night's double overtime.

This roster needs at least one more shooter and JBB's probably not the guy to get us to the promised land. I don't know if there's a coach out there who Mitchell respects enough to listen to, but at some point he's really going to have to make more of an effort to get his teammates going early in big games.

Getting the other guys going is going to vary from game to game, opponent to opponent, and opponent game plan to game plan; but Darius is well equipped to handle that role as long as he doesn't settle.

Also we've made an investment in Ricky Rubio and perhaps even Danny Green ... two guys coming off a major injury that players may need two years to recover from (assuming they do). If JBB wasn't so locked in to his rotation, I'd love to see him give Neto some run to see how he'd do next to Mitchell when Garland is off; but seems we have ZERO lineup data for that pairing.

There's a number of things a player can do when the defense is ignoring them and I have no problem giving Lamar credit for using his energy to take advantage and bring the team a spark. Something players off the bench are supposed to do.

speaking of lineup data, I am baffled why he doesnt go with Garland with the bench unit over Mitchell. It just seems like a no brainer that you would want more of a true point guard with that group and let Garland get them going with a more balanced offensive attack. Just looking at some 5 man data it looks like Garland seems to really mesh with Stevens and Levert more than Mitchell.

The bench production couldnt get worse how is this man not trying different options. The main guys you play with the bench can be a huge factor in that units production.

They both play with bench guys, the only question is who should exit first and who gets rotated in.

It makes sense to me to pair Mitchell with Rubio and if Rubio isn't giving much than perhaps try Neto.

LeVert and Allen should still be pairing well and can consume some possessions, but there are times we might prefer Garland or Mitchell to cook and we should try to find them a shooter.

Of course JBB is making the call, and will prefer hustle/ defense/rebounding to erratic shooting.

[jbk1234]

I'm a little concerned the Cavs shot distribution looked exactly like what the Celtics wanted it to look like and it only backfired because Stevens is a hustle guy while they all had dead legs after last night's double overtime.

This roster needs at least one more shooter and JBB's probably not the guy to get us to the promised land. I don't know if there's a coach out there who Mitchell respects enough to listen to, but at some point he's really going to have to make more of an effort to get his teammates going early in big games.

Getting the other guys going is going to vary from game to game, opponent to opponent, and opponent game plan to game plan; but Darius is well equipped to handle that role as long as he doesn't settle.

Also we've made an investment in Ricky Rubio and perhaps even Danny Green ... two guys coming off a major injury that players may need two years to recover from (assuming they do). If JBB wasn't so locked in to his rotation, I'd love to see him give Neto some run to see how he'd do next to Mitchell when Garland is off; but seems we have ZERO lineup data for that pairing.

There's a number of things a player can do when the defense is ignoring them and I have no problem giving Lamar credit for using his energy to take advantage and bring the team a spark. Something players off the bench are supposed to do.

speaking of lineup data, I am baffled why he doesnt go with Garland with the bench unit over Mitchell. It just seems like a no brainer that you would want more of a true point guard with that group and let Garland get them going with a more balanced offensive attack. Just looking at some 5 man data it looks like Garland seems to really mesh with Stevens and Levert more than Mitchell.

The bench production couldnt get worse how is this man not trying different options. The main guys you play with the bench can be a huge factor in that units production.

Because Mitchell is a shoot first and shoot often guard. LeVert can dribble and create for himself whilw Stevens is very limited offensively so the opportunity costs associated with Mitchell hijacking possessions and missing are lower.

Guys like Allen and Wade need the assistance of a good playmaker to score. They need to be on the floor with Garland and/or Rubio.

[JonFromVA]

Getting the other guys going is going to vary from game to game, opponent to opponent, and opponent game plan to game plan; but Darius is well equipped to handle that role as long as he doesn't settle.

Also we've made an investment in Ricky Rubio and perhaps even Danny Green ... two guys coming off a major injury that players may need two years to recover from (assuming they do). If JBB wasn't so locked in to his rotation, I'd love to see him give Neto some run to see how he'd do next to Mitchell when Garland is off; but seems we have ZERO lineup data for that pairing.

There's a number of things a player can do when the defense is ignoring them and I have no problem giving Lamar credit for using his energy to take advantage and bring the team a spark. Something players off the bench are supposed to do.

speaking of lineup data, I am baffled why he doesnt go with Garland with the bench unit over Mitchell. It just seems like a no brainer that you would want more of a true point guard with that group and let Garland get them going with a more balanced offensive attack. Just looking at some 5 man data it looks like Garland seems to really mesh with Stevens and Levert more than Mitchell.

The bench production couldnt get worse how is this man not trying different options. The main guys you play with the bench can be a huge factor in that units production.

Because Mitchell is a shoot first and shoot often guard. LeVert can dribble and create for himself whilw Stevens is very limited offensively so the opportunity costs associated with Mitchell hijacking possessions and missing are lower.

Guys like Allen and Wade need the assistance of a good playmaker to score. They need to be on the floor with Garland and/or Rubio.

Garland is our best shooter, so, it's that much harder putting together a shooting lineup around Mitchell when DG is out of the game. Wade and LeVert are currently our best options at 36.2% and 36.1% from 3pt.

The Cavs have struggled to recreate those Jazz lineups with a rim protector and shooters around Mitchell, but lineups with Allen as the rim protector and Wade/LeVert as shooters have done well (+17.6 in 126 minutes).

Danny Green should give those lineups a boost if he's playable.

While actually making things easy for Mitchell by spacing the floor would be fun, we're fortunate he can still score 40 in a game with his ability to make opposing defenders look like traffic cones.

So, the cool thing is there are a lot of ways the Cavs can be successful and JBB's challenge will be finding the right lineup for the moment. Even the Stevens-Okoro 2-man combination is currently positive at +3.7.

[JujitsuFlip]

speaking of lineup data, I am baffled why he doesnt go with Garland with the bench unit over Mitchell. It just seems like a no brainer that you would want more of a true point guard with that group and let Garland get them going with a more balanced offensive attack. Just looking at some 5 man data it looks like Garland seems to really mesh with Stevens and Levert more than Mitchell.

The bench production couldnt get worse how is this man not trying different options. The main guys you play with the bench can be a huge factor in that units production.

Because Mitchell is a shoot first and shoot often guard. LeVert can dribble and create for himself whilw Stevens is very limited offensively so the opportunity costs associated with Mitchell hijacking possessions and missing are lower.

Guys like Allen and Wade need the assistance of a good playmaker to score. They need to be on the floor with Garland and/or Rubio.

Garland is our best shooter, so, it's that much harder putting together a shooting lineup around Mitchell when DG is out of the game. Wade and LeVert are currently our best options at 36.2% and 36.1% from 3pt.

The Cavs have struggled to recreate those Jazz lineups with a rim protector and shooters around Mitchell, but lineups with Allen as the rim protector and Wade/LeVert as shooters have done well (+17.6 in 126 minutes).

Danny Green should give those lineups a boost if he's playable.

While actually making things easy for Mitchell by spacing the floor would be fun, we're fortunate he can still score 40 in a game with his ability to make opposing defenders look like traffic cones.

So, the cool thing is there are a lot of ways the Cavs can be successful and JBB's challenge will be finding the right lineup for the moment. Even the Stevens-Okoro 2-man combination is currently positive at +3.7.

I'd say the 2 best shooters are the 2 newest additions to the roster in Green and Merrill, JB just doesn't play them.

[JonFromVA]

Because Mitchell is a shoot first and shoot often guard. LeVert can dribble and create for himself whilw Stevens is very limited offensively so the opportunity costs associated with Mitchell hijacking possessions and missing are lower.

Guys like Allen and Wade need the assistance of a good playmaker to score. They need to be on the floor with Garland and/or Rubio.

Garland is our best shooter, so, it's that much harder putting together a shooting lineup around Mitchell when DG is out of the game. Wade and LeVert are currently our best options at 36.2% and 36.1% from 3pt.

The Cavs have struggled to recreate those Jazz lineups with a rim protector and shooters around Mitchell, but lineups with Allen as the rim protector and Wade/LeVert as shooters have done well (+17.6 in 126 minutes).

Danny Green should give those lineups a boost if he's playable.

While actually making things easy for Mitchell by spacing the floor would be fun, we're fortunate he can still score 40 in a game with his ability to make opposing defenders look like traffic cones.

So, the cool thing is there are a lot of ways the Cavs can be successful and JBB's challenge will be finding the right lineup for the moment. Even the Stevens-Okoro 2-man combination is currently positive at +3.7.

I'd say the 2 best shooters are the 2 newest additions to the roster in Green and Merrill, JB just doesn't play them.

At least Green is hitting some 3's in the garbage minutes he's getting, but he's less than a year out from when he tore his ACL; and Merrill has only G-League and NBA garbage time to hang his hat on.

Given Wade, Osman, and LeVert all shot poorly from 3pt in February, we could certainly use some help, but the moral of the story is there isn't just one way to win for this team and even Rubio who put up awful numbers in February somehow ended up +18 for the month.

Also in February ... Wade was +7.8, Osman was +11.7, and LeVert was +10.6.

So from a statistical POV, I'm not seeing a pattern that just demands a specific move. otoh, I could certainly see where the front office could accumulate enough data to ask JBB to shut down Kevin - even if JBB didn't arrive at that decision first.

Not much we can do but trust the coach knows what he's seeing in practice and will try to work these guys in when they're doing the things he wants to see.