2024 Playoffs Round 1: Cavs (4) / Magic (5) (4-3)

[JujitsuFlip]

Okay I lied. I loved the switch to Mobley on Paolo and Morris on Carter.

Hurts rebounding but yeah Mobley clamped him.

I think it would have hurt rebounding more if they put in Mo over Carter honestly. Was a little worried about that honestly

I watched some of Mosley's post game presser. It sounds like Mo is gonna get some imaging on his coccyx.

[jbk1234]

Great game, idk if jb makes the switch of Niang to Morris if Allen is healthy but I'll take it. I've been calling for it for how many days now?

Regardless if Allen plays game 6 or not, I'm starting Morris on Friday.

Trying to imagine a scenario where Niang sees minutes in this series again and all I got is a hostage scenario involving our starters.

[JujitsuFlip]

Great game, idk if jb makes the switch of Niang to Morris if Allen is healthy but I'll take it. I've been calling for it for how many days now?

Regardless if Allen plays game 6 or not, I'm starting Morris on Friday.

Trying to imagine a scenario where Niang sees minutes in this series again and all I got is a hostage scenario involving our starters.

Niang shoulda been yanked much sooner.

[JonFromVA]

Well, like I keep saying rather than readying guys to step-in, JBB sets his bench up to fail. We're just fortunate that MM didnt.

If he had prepared MM to swap with Niang based how the game was going, he surely would have swapped earlier; but he prepared for Niang so he rode Niang. Actually showed more faith in him than he did with Isaac last year .vs. the Knicks.

But at least Strus contributed and Isaac knocked down a couple of 3's ... but we sure aren't getting much from Okoro, LeVert, and Merrill. If they can get Garland and Mitchell to at least settle in to some sort of working pattern, maybe they can find some ways to get those guys more involved in the offense too.

I do like how Mitchell was trying to draw fouls in this game, that is winning playoff basketball. If we can only get a good quarter here or there out of Garland and Mitchell, perhaps there's something to Garland trying to get us off to a quick start and Mitchell trying to finish.

Good thing Max ignited in the 3rd.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, like I keep saying rather than readying guys to step-in, JBB sets his bench up to fail. We're just fortunate that MM didnt.

If he had prepared MM to swap with Niang based how the game was going, he surely would have swapped earlier; but he prepared for Niang so he rode Niang. Actually showed more faith in him than he did with Isaac last year .vs. the Knicks.

But at least Strus contributed and Isaac knocked down a couple of 3's ... but we sure aren't getting much from Okoro, LeVert, and Merrill. If they can get Garland and Mitchell to at least settle in to some sort of working pattern, maybe they can find some ways to get those guys more involved in the offense too.

I do like how Mitchell was trying to draw fouls in this game, that is winning playoff basketball. If we can only get a good quarter here or there out of Garland and Mitchell, perhaps there's something to Garland trying to get us off to a quick start and Mitchell trying to finish.

Good thing Max ignited in the 3rd.

I saw Mitchell smiling and winking as he was drawing fouls late.

That game had my heart pounding. I was sleepy but my body was still on edge.

We'll see what happens Friday.

[toooskies]

Great game, idk if jb makes the switch of Niang to Morris if Allen is healthy but I'll take it. I've been calling for it for how many days now?

Regardless if Allen plays game 6 or not, I'm starting Morris on Friday.

Trying to imagine a scenario where Niang sees minutes in this series again and all I got is a hostage scenario involving our starters.

Niang shoulda been yanked much sooner.

I'd have said November. His value is neutral when his shot is falling and negative when it isn't.

Morris looked like a pretty good version of himself last night, but we've seen him play good and bad (mostly bad) for the Cavs this year. Morris flashed in his first game with the Cavs and then proceeded to have a -20 on/off in the regular season. I think it's very possible that Morris looks worse in games 6 and 7.

Niang flashed enough in games 1 and 2... and not at all in games 3 and 4. (Then again, it isn't as if we played better defense against Paolo in game 5 until we switched Mobley onto him at the end.)

That's not a poor reflection on JBB, by the way-- Spoelstra shifted to Kevin Love after he flashed in one game of the Finals last year, claiming he should have switched to him sooner in the post-game... and then Love proceeded to have his weaknesses exposed in the rest of the series.

[JujitsuFlip]

Trying to imagine a scenario where Niang sees minutes in this series again and all I got is a hostage scenario involving our starters.

Niang shoulda been yanked much sooner.

I'd have said November. His value is neutral when his shot is falling and negative when it isn't.

Morris looked like a pretty good version of himself last night, but we've seen him play good and bad (mostly bad) for the Cavs this year. Morris flashed in his first game with the Cavs and then proceeded to have a -20 on/off in the regular season. I think it's very possible that Morris looks worse in games 6 and 7.

Niang flashed enough in games 1 and 2... and not at all in games 3 and 4. (Then again, it isn't as if we played better defense against Paolo in game 5 until we switched Mobley onto him at the end.)

That's not a poor reflection on JBB, by the way-- Spoelstra shifted to Kevin Love after he flashed in one game of the Finals last year, claiming he should have switched to him sooner in the post-game... and then Love proceeded to have his weaknesses exposed in the rest of the series.

I want to start by saying jb is a turd.

Also, to your larger point, exactly when was Morris given any real run in the regular season? He played 12 games for a total of 180 minutes lol

[jbk1234]

Well, like I keep saying rather than readying guys to step-in, JBB sets his bench up to fail. We're just fortunate that MM didnt.

If he had prepared MM to swap with Niang based how the game was going, he surely would have swapped earlier; but he prepared for Niang so he rode Niang. Actually showed more faith in him than he did with Isaac last year .vs. the Knicks.

But at least Strus contributed and Isaac knocked down a couple of 3's ... but we sure aren't getting much from Okoro, LeVert, and Merrill. If they can get Garland and Mitchell to at least settle in to some sort of working pattern, maybe they can find some ways to get those guys more involved in the offense too.

I do like how Mitchell was trying to draw fouls in this game, that is winning playoff basketball. If we can only get a good quarter here or there out of Garland and Mitchell, perhaps there's something to Garland trying to get us off to a quick start and Mitchell trying to finish.

Good thing Max ignited in the 3rd.

The problem with unified theories of failure is that the exclude all other possible causes, e.g., the player has serious flaws/limitations, or the player matches up poorly against his counterparts in a series, the player's presence in a rotation hurts his (better) teammates more than it helps.

I just struggle to believe that the best teams in the NBA spend a lot of, the little practice time that's available, working the 11-15 guys into a rotation with starters before the need arises. I find it even less plausible that the best teams in the NBA game plan towards getting the 11-15th guys going before an actual need arises. I feel like your primary criticism of JBB is for not doing something that isn't really done in the NBA outside of maybe the worst teams in the NBA who are straight rebuilding.

[JonFromVA]

Well, like I keep saying rather than readying guys to step-in, JBB sets his bench up to fail. We're just fortunate that MM didnt.

If he had prepared MM to swap with Niang based how the game was going, he surely would have swapped earlier; but he prepared for Niang so he rode Niang. Actually showed more faith in him than he did with Isaac last year .vs. the Knicks.

But at least Strus contributed and Isaac knocked down a couple of 3's ... but we sure aren't getting much from Okoro, LeVert, and Merrill. If they can get Garland and Mitchell to at least settle in to some sort of working pattern, maybe they can find some ways to get those guys more involved in the offense too.

I do like how Mitchell was trying to draw fouls in this game, that is winning playoff basketball. If we can only get a good quarter here or there out of Garland and Mitchell, perhaps there's something to Garland trying to get us off to a quick start and Mitchell trying to finish.

Good thing Max ignited in the 3rd.

The problem with unified theories of failure is that the exclude all other possible causes, e.g., the player has serious flaws/limitations, or the player matches up poorly against his counterparts in a series, the player's presence in a rotation hurts his (better) teammates more than it helps.

I just struggle to believe that the best teams in the NBA spend a lot of, the little practice time that's available, working the 11-15 guys into a rotation with starters before the need arises. I find it even less plausible that the best teams in the NBA game plan towards getting the 11-15th guys going before an actual need arises. I feel like your primary criticism of JBB is for not doing something that isn't really done in the NBA outside of maybe the worst teams in the NBA who are straight rebuilding.

Funny you should say that given we're currently struggling to beat a team that cut back to a 10-man rotation for the playoffs. They lost Gary Harris and didn't need to dust anybody off (at least for game 5).

Of course players have flaws, match-up problems occur, and guys get injured. All good reasons to develop the bench.

We are talking about the same coach who convinced Kevin Love we didn't need him while he struggled with a thumb injury only to discover after it was too late that Dean Wade wasn't ready to step-in for him? And that we really could have used Kevin's rebounding and experience .vs. the Knicks even if his shooting still didn't come around?

[ijspeelman]

I want to start by saying jb is a turd.

I actually don't think you need to preface this bc its basically a signature on all of your posts lol

[jbk1234]

Niang shoulda been yanked much sooner.

I'd have said November. His value is neutral when his shot is falling and negative when it isn't.

Morris looked like a pretty good version of himself last night, but we've seen him play good and bad (mostly bad) for the Cavs this year. Morris flashed in his first game with the Cavs and then proceeded to have a -20 on/off in the regular season. I think it's very possible that Morris looks worse in games 6 and 7.

Niang flashed enough in games 1 and 2... and not at all in games 3 and 4. (Then again, it isn't as if we played better defense against Paolo in game 5 until we switched Mobley onto him at the end.)

That's not a poor reflection on JBB, by the way-- Spoelstra shifted to Kevin Love after he flashed in one game of the Finals last year, claiming he should have switched to him sooner in the post-game... and then Love proceeded to have his weaknesses exposed in the rest of the series.

I want to start by saying jb is a turd.

Also, to your larger point, exactly when was Morris given any real run in the regular season? He played 12 games for a total of 180 minutes lol

I mean we were his third team this season and picked him up off the waiver wire after the deadline. No one should be confused about where Morris is at in terms of athleticism at this stage in his career.if his shots weren't dropping last night, it would've been very hard for him to stay on the floor.

[ijspeelman]

I mean we were his third team this season and picked him up off the waiver wire after the deadline. No one should be confused about where Morris is at in terms of athleticism at this stage in his career.if his shots weren't dropping last night, it would've been very hard for him to stay on the floor.

I liked his defense honestly. Was an upgrade on Niang even without the shot making

His offensive decision making was a lil rough, but he made his shots

[toooskies]

I'd have said November. His value is neutral when his shot is falling and negative when it isn't.

Morris looked like a pretty good version of himself last night, but we've seen him play good and bad (mostly bad) for the Cavs this year. Morris flashed in his first game with the Cavs and then proceeded to have a -20 on/off in the regular season. I think it's very possible that Morris looks worse in games 6 and 7.

Niang flashed enough in games 1 and 2... and not at all in games 3 and 4. (Then again, it isn't as if we played better defense against Paolo in game 5 until we switched Mobley onto him at the end.)

That's not a poor reflection on JBB, by the way-- Spoelstra shifted to Kevin Love after he flashed in one game of the Finals last year, claiming he should have switched to him sooner in the post-game... and then Love proceeded to have his weaknesses exposed in the rest of the series.

I want to start by saying jb is a turd.

Also, to your larger point, exactly when was Morris given any real run in the regular season? He played 12 games for a total of 180 minutes lol

I mean we were his third team this season and picked him up off the waiver wire after the deadline. No one should be confused about where Morris is at in terms of athleticism at this stage in his career.if his shots weren't dropping last night, it would've been very hard for him to stay on the floor.

Also, 180 minutes over 12 games (of 17 he was on the roster for) is... actually a pretty good amount of run for a 12th man. Only one of those appearances were purely mop-up duty-- he was nearly unplayable against the Lakers and Suns. Other than his debut, yesterday was Morris's highest game score and plus-minus in a Cavs uniform.

You can hope for yesterday's level of performance to continue, and it might even be realistic for him to play better than he did for the Cavs in the regular season, but yesterday was likely his best performance of the series.

[jbk1234]

Well, like I keep saying rather than readying guys to step-in, JBB sets his bench up to fail. We're just fortunate that MM didnt.

If he had prepared MM to swap with Niang based how the game was going, he surely would have swapped earlier; but he prepared for Niang so he rode Niang. Actually showed more faith in him than he did with Isaac last year .vs. the Knicks.

But at least Strus contributed and Isaac knocked down a couple of 3's ... but we sure aren't getting much from Okoro, LeVert, and Merrill. If they can get Garland and Mitchell to at least settle in to some sort of working pattern, maybe they can find some ways to get those guys more involved in the offense too.

I do like how Mitchell was trying to draw fouls in this game, that is winning playoff basketball. If we can only get a good quarter here or there out of Garland and Mitchell, perhaps there's something to Garland trying to get us off to a quick start and Mitchell trying to finish.

Good thing Max ignited in the 3rd.

The problem with unified theories of failure is that the exclude all other possible causes, e.g., the player has serious flaws/limitations, or the player matches up poorly against his counterparts in a series, the player's presence in a rotation hurts his (better) teammates more than it helps.

I just struggle to believe that the best teams in the NBA spend a lot of, the little practice time that's available, working the 11-15 guys into a rotation with starters before the need arises. I find it even less plausible that the best teams in the NBA game plan towards getting the 11-15th guys going before an actual need arises. I feel like your primary criticism of JBB is for not doing something that isn't really done in the NBA outside of maybe the worst teams in the NBA who are straight rebuilding.

Funny you should say that given we're currently struggling to beat a team that cut back to a 10-man rotation for the playoffs. They lost Gary Harris and didn't need to dust anybody off (at least for game 5).

Of course players have flaws, match-up problems occur, and guys get injured. All good reasons to develop the bench.

We are talking about the same coach who convinced Kevin Love we didn't need him while he struggled with a thumb injury only to discover after it was too late that Dean Wade wasn't ready to step-in for him? And that we really could have used Kevin's rebounding and experience .vs. the Knicks even if his shooting still didn't come around?

I'm confused. Fultz and Anthony are part of their 10 man rotation, but neither are better than Harris is with the starters. The drop off on the defensive end was noticeable. They've both been pretty bad in Cleveland. Niang sucked, was getting killed by Isaac off that bench, and imploding the defense on that second unit.

Love was told that he wasn't going to be part of regular rotation. He made a choice. Altman then made his choice. Wade and the medical staff made whatever choices they made as far as being able to project his availability.

I'm not convinced JBB is the right coach for this team, but EVERYTHING isn't his fault. Some of things fans complain about are very unlikely to change unless Mitchell asks out, we end up dealing him for young guys, and reset the competitive timeline.

[jbk1234]

I mean we were his third team this season and picked him up off the waiver wire after the deadline. No one should be confused about where Morris is at in terms of athleticism at this stage in his career.if his shots weren't dropping last night, it would've been very hard for him to stay on the floor.

I liked his defense honestly. Was an upgrade on Niang even without the shot making

His offensive decision making was a lil rough, but he made his shots

Better defensively than Niang is likely true of every forward on a playoff roster, but Banchero and Frantz were both happy anytime they got switched onto him.

[ijspeelman]

I mean we were his third team this season and picked him up off the waiver wire after the deadline. No one should be confused about where Morris is at in terms of athleticism at this stage in his career.if his shots weren't dropping last night, it would've been very hard for him to stay on the floor.

I liked his defense honestly. Was an upgrade on Niang even without the shot making

His offensive decision making was a lil rough, but he made his shots

Better defensively than Niang is likely true of every forward on a playoff roster, but Banchero and Frantz were both happy anytime they got switched onto him.

I def agree w you on Niang lol

I think Morris did what he could. I still somewhat stand behind my comment with how I mostly liked how we guarded Paolo even before Mobley was switched on him. He was making incredible shots with some good defense in front of him. Don't really want to fault Okoro or Morris for their defense on him

[JonFromVA]

The problem with unified theories of failure is that the exclude all other possible causes, e.g., the player has serious flaws/limitations, or the player matches up poorly against his counterparts in a series, the player's presence in a rotation hurts his (better) teammates more than it helps.

I just struggle to believe that the best teams in the NBA spend a lot of, the little practice time that's available, working the 11-15 guys into a rotation with starters before the need arises. I find it even less plausible that the best teams in the NBA game plan towards getting the 11-15th guys going before an actual need arises. I feel like your primary criticism of JBB is for not doing something that isn't really done in the NBA outside of maybe the worst teams in the NBA who are straight rebuilding.

Funny you should say that given we're currently struggling to beat a team that cut back to a 10-man rotation for the playoffs. They lost Gary Harris and didn't need to dust anybody off (at least for game 5).

Of course players have flaws, match-up problems occur, and guys get injured. All good reasons to develop the bench.

We are talking about the same coach who convinced Kevin Love we didn't need him while he struggled with a thumb injury only to discover after it was too late that Dean Wade wasn't ready to step-in for him? And that we really could have used Kevin's rebounding and experience .vs. the Knicks even if his shooting still didn't come around?

I'm confused. Fultz and Anthony are part of their 10 man rotation, but neither are better than Harris is with the starters. The drop off on the defensive end was noticeable. They've both been pretty bad in Cleveland. Niang sucked, was getting killed by Isaac off that bench, and imploding the defense on that second unit.

Love was told that he wasn't going to be part of regular rotation. He made a choice. Altman then made his choice. Wade and the medical staff made whatever choices they made as far as being able to project his availability.

I'm not convinced JBB is the right coach for this team, but EVERYTHING isn't his fault. Some of things fans complain about are very unlikely to change unless Mitchell asks out, we end up dealing him for young guys, and reset the competitive timeline.

I'm sure you are confused, you tried to couch the discussion and I ignored your arbitrary definitions.

Our coach isn't supposed to just have George Niang to backup Allen and Mobley, but it was his decision to put all his eggs in that basket. So I really don't care if our other backup bigs are the 13th man or 20th man on the roster ... it's on the coach to make sure other players are ready in case we run in to foul trouble, injury, performance issues, matchup problems, etc, etc.

[JonFromVA]

I liked his defense honestly. Was an upgrade on Niang even without the shot making

His offensive decision making was a lil rough, but he made his shots

Better defensively than Niang is likely true of every forward on a playoff roster, but Banchero and Frantz were both happy anytime they got switched onto him.

I def agree w you on Niang lol

I think Morris did what he could. I still somewhat stand behind my comment with how I mostly liked how we guarded Paolo even before Mobley was switched on him. He was making incredible shots with some good defense in front of him. Don't really want to fault Okoro or Morris for their defense on him

Paolo's step back J isn't going to be stopped by a shorter player putting a hand up. You hope he misses, you contest him with length, you double him, or you prevent him from getting to his spots.

In terms of standing reach, we've got:

Isaac 8'4.5"
Georges 8'7"
Marcus 8'9.5"
Evan 9'

So quite a bump up between those 4 players.

Of course this guy is on the roster too:

Damian Jones 8'11"

[ijspeelman]

Paolo's step back J isn't going to be stopped by a shorter player putting a hand up. You hope he misses, you contest him with length, you double him, or you prevent him from getting to his spots.

In terms of standing reach, we've got:

Isaac 8'4.5"
Georges 8'7"
Marcus 8'9.5"
Evan 9'

So quite a bump up between those 4 players.

I think the issue is when you move Mobley to him (especially if Allen is still out), you give up a lot of size outside of the paint and that is where Magic can gameplan w Jon Isaac, Mo, or Carter Jr crashing the glass. You also give up Mobley as a helper

Maybe if this is a problem in game 6, we see a line-up w Tristan and Mobley. Though if that looks abhorrent on offense it'll also look like coaching malpractice

Of course this guy is on the roster too:

Damian Jones 8'11"

Don't think Damian has the footspeed to stick with Paolo (or the offense to make up for it)

[JonFromVA]

Paolo's step back J isn't going to be stopped by a shorter player putting a hand up. You hope he misses, you contest him with length, you double him, or you prevent him from getting to his spots.

In terms of standing reach, we've got:

Isaac 8'4.5"
Georges 8'7"
Marcus 8'9.5"
Evan 9'

So quite a bump up between those 4 players.

I think the issue is when you move Mobley to him (especially if Allen is still out), you give up a lot of size outside of the paint and that is where Magic can gameplan w Jon Isaac, Mo, or Carter Jr crashing the glass. You also give up Mobley as a helper

Maybe if this is a problem in game 6, we see a line-up w Tristan and Mobley. Though if that looks abhorrent on offense it'll also look like coaching malpractice

Of course this guy is on the roster too:

Damian Jones 8'11"

Don't think Damian has the footspeed to stick with Paolo (or the offense to make up for it)

That would first require Paolo trying to take Jones off the dribble and someone else getting Evan out of the paint, or else even if he gets past Jones he will likely end up sandwiched between the two.

And if Evan can't help in the paint?

We could have Evan cover Paolo and put Jones on whoever would let him play closer to the rim.

But as you know, we barely used Jones in the regular season, so it would just be another hope and a prayer and maybe the next problem is WCJ burying 3's over Okoro/Strus/LeVert/etc but you can only plug so many holes in a dam at a time. At some point you may have to pick your poison, but ideally you pick it rather than let the Magic keep doing something that's working for them.