Moderator: ijspeelman
BallAboveAll wrote:If you are in a marriage or a serious relationship you have to do crap you don't want to do sometimes. Why? Women can go longer without sex.
B Mac wrote:I just hope those crazy scrubs dont go out trying to hurt our players like some of them have been known to do. There is something seriously wrong with several of the guys on that team and I wouldnt put it past them to try to get some "payback" in the wrong way. Its not our faults we keep beating them in the playoffs.
Manny Phresh wrote:Why do the Wizards have to be so annoying? I can't stand there fans and then they try to make a mockery of our city because they can't take getting embarrassed in the playoffs every year
Sam Smith, once of the Chicago Tribune, now mostly of Sam Smith, wrote:
We always joke about stars getting all the calls, and we heard plenty of this in Chicago in Michael Jordan's era. Now, I'm not saying there's some sort of conspiracy. But James may well be the most protected star we've ever seen.
Do the referees consciously protect James knowing he is perhaps the league's top marketing figure and he is featured more than any player on the nightly sports highlights? I always doubt that knowing the integrity of the refereeing corps as a group and believe NBA officiating is the best in sports.
Still, we've never seen anything like this. Especially at a time when it is generally agreed with rules changes it is the most difficult time to defend on the perimeter without committing fouls.
In 12 of the 20 games since then, James has been called for one or zero fouls in a game. James had a stretch of five straight games to conclude March averaging 36.8 minutes per game without being called for one foul. Not one in five games! In the last nine games, James has been called for three personal fouls. It's really amazing given the involvement James has in the action of the game. "It's impossible," said one team executive. The executive said there is one slight explanation. That the game has changed to so much drive and kick that the perimeter defenders end up guarding the three so much, and don't foul as often. That there is less one on one penetration. Still, he said not for five consecutive games like that
BallAboveAll wrote:If you are in a marriage or a serious relationship you have to do crap you don't want to do sometimes. Why? Women can go longer without sex.
Manny Phresh wrote:See there's something I don't get... They act like they're the only ones to go through this. And they feel like they're be conspired against... Let's not forget that there was another 23 that put us through the same misery and hell that they're going through now... The worst has already happen Washington
doclinkin wrote:Eh, the point of the article is not so much that LeBron gets star treatment, it's that the treatment he gets is practically unprecedented.
An again the least of what's galling is that he is treated well by the refs, and more that he expects he deserves it, is entitled to it. Whines when he doesn't get it, throws tantrums like he thinks it's cute that a full grown baby man acts like a pampered infant. And if he makes a mistake, he immediately looks for a ref to bail him out.
I mean granted in a play like this one he was basically like totally decapitated by Trevor Ariza, basically:
Note the gouting blood.
I mean come on. He's built like a God Of Victory. Is lauded like a hero of days of yore. A Legend. But to allatime pretend you were fouled or check your lip for blood whenever someone brushes your shadow with their unclean foot. (Or their eyebrow in the case of Trevor Ariza) . Come on now, is that heroic?
In wrestling, say, where the heroes and villains are scripted, the good guy doesn't wait 'til the ref has his back turned then throw chalk in the opponents eye, smack him with a chair, and when the ref turns back roll around on the ground complaining it was the other way around. That's a villain. A heel.
Part of what we look for in sports is that metaphor for honor, hard work, personal achievement. You know, sportsmanship. What does LeBron embody? He can't help but be a role model for people who admire him, and he wants to be a Global Icon. (Mother*@#* a Barkley with his 'I'm no role model' jazz-- LeCon-artist wants the status). But an 'icon' stands for something, some greater concept. So whats he stand for? So what does this this teach your kids? If it don't go your way look for someone to bail you out? It's a different set of rules for them who God almighty, the refs, and David Stern has blessed. Manifest destiny.
Nope. Point of sports, and rules in sports, and referees in general, is that we all get the same set. It's a true meritocracy. You win by virtue of, well, Virtue. Don't matter your color. No different rules for you nor anybody else. Again, if LeBron wants to play the heel, fine I don't fault him, that's how he wants to brand himself: LeFraud, LeTravel. But I don't expect the refs to play into it when you know it just happens to be one of his tactics.
And okay yeah I just don't expect the spoiled brat routine from the best of the best, most talented player in the league. I guess I like heroes to act you know heroic and not like a spoiled Brat who has been handed everything his life ever gave him. If I get my ass kicked, better not be by a skirt wearing pantywaist dressed in a man's body. Looking for Mommy or the refs to intercede whenever he's not allowed to win. It's frankly a little nauseating to seen a grown-ass man whine to the referees so much. Makes you wish for the old school league with beer drinking in the locker room where you had enforcers on the squad who would knock a guy out. Think about your grandfathers generation (or their fathers before them) coming out of World War Two. They would have shaken their collective head in disgust at the antics.
Seriously though. You think Bill Russell was rolling around on the floor checking for loose teeth whenever someone bumped his elbow? Grown ass man. Most talented in the league. Stop acting like a spoiled child, and refs-- don't buy the act. Sit him in a corner for a few minutes until he can behave like the rest of the kids. Because, quite frankly, that's your damn job.
Benedict_Boozer wrote:^Doclinkin dropped a dissertation on fairness in sports
In terms of being called for fouls on defense, I don't see him committing all these mystery fouls. Someone has yet to break down a game tape as an example and point out a series of fouls LBJ is supposedly getting away with. You can name random notable plays, but you can do that for anyone, missed calls happen.
To me, Lebron just isn't in situations where he has to commit alot of fouls, even if he is beat off the dribble he usually just trails his man and tries to block the shot from behind rather than reach. He doesn't "bear-hug" like Kobe or Artest do on defense because he can cover ground so quickly. Guys that score on him are usually hitting jumpers - ala Pierce, Wade - they aren't getting to the rim typically where fouls occur.
doclinkin wrote:I'm less concerned about LeBron getting the benefit of calls on defense when the fact is the problem is worse at the other end. By rule he should be called for an offensive charge 4-5 times a game. His signature move, besides the crab dribble, is to lower his shoulder and bull into a player. If he misses the shot, and the ref doesn't call the foul on the opponent, he immediately checks his lip for blood. If he shoots an airball, he falls down. If he tunrs the ball over, once again rubbing his head like someone tried to decapitate him.
It's getting ridiculous.
Fair enough, superstars get the calls. Refs are fans of good ball, vulnerable to star worship. They get to see the talent up close every night. But the truth is that makes it worse. This guy is good enough that he doesn't need the extra help, if they called it straight he'd still be dominant. He'd find a way to adjust. No knock on him personally, he's using whatever edge he can when he fakes injury or flops or games the referees. He's just looking for every edge. That's intelligent. No difference for LeBron than if it were, say Bill Laimbeer trying to cheat for an edge. But it's a scrub move used in soccer when a more talented player beats an opponent. Flop, roll around, call for a medevac copter, then pop up and run around healthy. Not saying it's unamerican, just saying it's a little galling to see the most talented player in the league pulling a scrub move as if he actually needed it.
Now I won't go so far as to say it corrodes the integrity of the game. It may turn off people predisposed to dislike the game, but hey, they'd find another way to call the thing a fraud-- if it weren't LeCon, it would be someone else.
But seems to me that a self-respecting referee would realize they're getting gamed. Would recognize it beforehand in their pre-game breakdown that LeBron likes to pull an acting job every now and again, and likes to, quite frankly charge, charge like the bulls of pamplona with a hot chili jammed up their hoo-hah.
Seems to me that NBA refs nowadays ought to prefer to enforce the rules carefully, without bias, always keeping an eye on their collective reputation. Because, integrity of the game or no, their personal integrity has been enduringly rendered suspect by the actions of one of their own.
And frankly, refs ought to get embarrassed when someone continually plays 'em for a fool. Hell I'd be whistling a tech everytime he touched his damn lip. Call it 'lip-flopping'. Tired of the act is all.
doclinkin wrote:Okay, I appreciate that you don't bother to deny it. Appreciate that you know your guy gets away with it, and that you hated it when MJ had a separate set of rules. And if LeBron ever did roll on to the Brooklyn Nets I fully expect you'd feel the same sort of sick, or okay far worse. But at least you have the sense of character to be honest about it. Here's my argument:doclinkin wrote:Eh, the point of the article is not so much that LeBron gets star treatment, it's that the treatment he gets is practically unprecedented.
An again the least of what's galling is that he is treated well by the refs, and more that he expects he deserves it, is entitled to it. Whines when he doesn't get it, throws tantrums like he thinks it's cute that a full grown baby man acts like a pampered infant. And if he makes a mistake, he immediately looks for a ref to bail him out.
I mean granted in a play like this one he was basically like totally decapitated by Trevor Ariza, basically:
Note the gouting blood.
I mean come on. He's built like a God Of Victory. Is lauded like a hero of days of yore. A Legend. But to allatime pretend you were fouled or check your lip for blood whenever someone brushes your shadow with their unclean foot. (Or their eyebrow in the case of Trevor Ariza) . Come on now, is that heroic?
In wrestling, say, where the heroes and villains are scripted, the good guy doesn't wait 'til the ref has his back turned then throw chalk in the opponents eye, smack him with a chair, and when the ref turns back roll around on the ground complaining it was the other way around. That's a villain. A heel.
Part of what we look for in sports is that metaphor for honor, hard work, personal achievement. You know, sportsmanship. What does LeBron embody? He can't help but be a role model for people who admire him, and he wants to be a Global Icon. (Mother*@#* a Barkley with his 'I'm no role model' jazz-- LeCon-artist wants the status). But an 'icon' stands for something, some greater concept. So whats he stand for? So what does this this teach your kids? If it don't go your way look for someone to bail you out? It's a different set of rules for them who God almighty, the refs, and David Stern has blessed. Manifest destiny.
Nope. Point of sports, and rules in sports, and referees in general, is that we all get the same set. It's a true meritocracy. You win by virtue of, well, Virtue. Don't matter your color. No different rules for you nor anybody else. Again, if LeBron wants to play the heel, fine I don't fault him, that's how he wants to brand himself: LeFraud, LeTravel. But I don't expect the refs to play into it when you know it just happens to be one of his tactics.
And okay yeah I just don't expect the spoiled brat routine from the best of the best, most talented player in the league. I guess I like heroes to act you know heroic and not like a spoiled Brat who has been handed everything his life ever gave him. If I get my ass kicked, better not be by a skirt wearing pantywaist dressed in a man's body. Looking for Mommy or the refs to intercede whenever he's not allowed to win. It's frankly a little nauseating to seen a grown-ass man whine to the referees so much. Makes you wish for the old school league with beer drinking in the locker room where you had enforcers on the squad who would knock a guy out. Think about your grandfathers generation (or their fathers before them) coming out of World War Two. They would have shaken their collective head in disgust at the antics.
Seriously though. You think Bill Russell was rolling around on the floor checking for loose teeth whenever someone bumped his elbow? Grown ass man. Most talented in the league. Stop acting like a spoiled child, and refs-- don't buy the act. Sit him in a corner for a few minutes until he can behave like the rest of the kids. Because, quite frankly, that's your damn job.
Mods -- feel free to edit out the 'Le-[fill-in-the-blank] ' references. This was from the general board thread on the topic. Also apologies if you'd prefer I keep it on the Wiz board. We have a long-standing tradition of allowing a bit of give-and-take over there, Manny will let you know, we appreciate a fan who can make a strong (witty, well-reasoned) argument for themselves. But I've noticed some boards aren't quite as free-flowing. (Shoot we used to have a 'Trolls' thread [pats self on back] just because smack talk is one of the true joys of sports. Elsewise, why would we all be on here].
Personally I love the Cavs rivalry, even though it hasn't been in my squad's favor. Oh well, can't win 'em all (or apparently more than 18 of 'em this year....).
Thanks Cleveland, Later, have to go back to praying at the shrine of the Basketball Gawds to land us Blake Griffin. See y'all tonight. Oh and thanks in advance for the ass-kicking I expect tonight. We'll probably get waffle-stomped.
-doc.
). his athleticism is so great where he can jump higher than anyone on the court, so he doesnt pick up over the back calls. his fouls come primarily from offensive charges.). i think the acting has gotten worse and worse since a ref told mike brown that fouls werent being called on the opposition against lebron because lebron "wasnt being re-routed" - even tho i think only a few players in the league logistically re-route lebron. since then (and i would say this was about two months ago or so) any slap on the wrist or hipcheck gets met with lebron scaring the hell out of everyone in the arena while he lays there for a good five minutes - it just gets annoying. now granted he does get hammered on alot of plays, but you can never tell because even the slightest bump is sending him to floor (and he is usually yelling "HEY" or "AND 1" )
