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Thunder Muscle wrote:What is Chris Roller’s story? I don’t know anything about him.
This Burnes trade could look good if Ortiz is legit and DL Hall comes back strong. Plus still have a comp pick too.
Ayt wrote:The Contreras trade is one of the most insane I have ever seen. Even at the time it seemed absurd for the Brewers, and now it is looking even more absurd. How does a trade like that even happen? How do other teams not jump all over a catcher at his age with his ability who is available?
**** bizarre. The Brewers got a young MVP caliber catcher for basically nothing and the rest of the league didn't even blink. How does that even happen?
Though Lauer looked well on his way to a breakout with the Brew Crew in 2021 after adding a slider to his arsenal, his 2023 campaign was a disaster. From 2021-22, Lauer pitched to a 3.47 ERA in 277 1/3 innings, showing strong strikeout and walk rates along the way — particularly after incorporating that new breaking ball into his repertoire. However, last year saw the southpaw post a grisly 6.46 ERA in 46 2/3 innings. The Brewers optioned him to Triple-A Nashville in hopes of getting him right, but he served up a 5.15 ERA there as well.
Lauer incurred both shoulder and elbow injuries from 2022-23, so it’s certainly possible he wasn’t pitching at full strength during that miserable 2023 campaign. He lost more than two miles per hour off his heater last year, dropping from a 93.3 mph average in 2022 to just 91.2 mph before he was optioned.
While that ugly final outing in Indy skewed Lauer’s 2024 ERA, he fanned a sharp 29.1% of opponents in his brief stint with the Pirates organization, coupling that mark with a solid 8.7% walk rate. Even if he doesn’t get all the way back to his 2021-22 form, Lauer has a 4.30 earned run average in nearly 600 big league innings — a 4.11 mark if excluding last year’s tough showing. He also only has 4.111 years of big league service time, so if a team signs him and brings him to the majors at some point, he can be controlled through the 2025 season via arbitration (or even through 2026, if his MLB promotion comes with 60 or fewer days remaining on the season’s calendar).
MiltownHawkeye wrote:Ayt wrote:The Contreras trade is one of the most insane I have ever seen. Even at the time it seemed absurd for the Brewers, and now it is looking even more absurd. How does a trade like that even happen? How do other teams not jump all over a catcher at his age with his ability who is available?
**** bizarre. The Brewers got a young MVP caliber catcher for basically nothing and the rest of the league didn't even blink. How does that even happen?
I haven't fully wrapped my mind around it either. seems like Contreras was thought of as a Gary Sanchez-type player in ATL. A good hitter with power but a liability behind the plate and more of a DH/corner guy long-term. We made him into an above-average defensive catcher with elite framing somehow last year, and now he's doing that + hitting like prime Joe Mauer.
Sean Murphy is an elite defensive C and not a slouch at the plate so I get them seeing him as an upgrade at the time, but what I don't get is that Contreras was still dirt cheap + he already showed that his bat could play at DH or a corner spot.
ReasonablySober wrote:Though Lauer looked well on his way to a breakout with the Brew Crew in 2021 after adding a slider to his arsenal, his 2023 campaign was a disaster. From 2021-22, Lauer pitched to a 3.47 ERA in 277 1/3 innings, showing strong strikeout and walk rates along the way — particularly after incorporating that new breaking ball into his repertoire. However, last year saw the southpaw post a grisly 6.46 ERA in 46 2/3 innings. The Brewers optioned him to Triple-A Nashville in hopes of getting him right, but he served up a 5.15 ERA there as well.
Lauer incurred both shoulder and elbow injuries from 2022-23, so it’s certainly possible he wasn’t pitching at full strength during that miserable 2023 campaign. He lost more than two miles per hour off his heater last year, dropping from a 93.3 mph average in 2022 to just 91.2 mph before he was optioned.
While that ugly final outing in Indy skewed Lauer’s 2024 ERA, he fanned a sharp 29.1% of opponents in his brief stint with the Pirates organization, coupling that mark with a solid 8.7% walk rate. Even if he doesn’t get all the way back to his 2021-22 form, Lauer has a 4.30 earned run average in nearly 600 big league innings — a 4.11 mark if excluding last year’s tough showing. He also only has 4.111 years of big league service time, so if a team signs him and brings him to the majors at some point, he can be controlled through the 2025 season via arbitration (or even through 2026, if his MLB promotion comes with 60 or fewer days remaining on the season’s calendar).
Wouldn't rule out a reunion here.
Why Adames is unlikely to be the next Hader
Speaking of the Brewers, the return from their controversial Josh Hader trade at the 2022 deadline keeps looking better and better.
Left-hander Robert Gasser, the pitching prospect they acquired from the Padres, has a 0.82 ERA after two starts. Another player in the deal, outfielder Esteury Ruiz, brought them star catcher William Contreras and reliever Joel Payamps in a three-team deal with Atlanta and Oakland 4 1/2 months later.
The Hader trade jarred the Brewers’ players, who were stunned the team would trade its All-Star closer while it had a three-game lead in the NL Central. Hader to that point in the season had not pitched particularly well, and would be even worse for the Padres before rallying in the playoffs. But the Brewers’ attempt to backfill with Taylor Rogers and Trevor Rosenthal backfired, and the team missed making the playoffs by one game.
Which raises the question: Would the Brewers attempt a similar move with shortstop Willy Adames, who is even closer to free agency than Hader was? Hader at the time was under club control for two pennant races. Adames, on the other hand, is only months away from hitting the open market.
“I’ve already been traded twice in my career. I know it’s part of the game,” said Adames, who went from the Tigers to the Tampa Bay Rays in the David Price deal in 2014 and the Rays to the Brewers for pitchers Drew Rasmussen and J.P. Feyereisen in 2021. “But you feel comfortable in a place. You create good friendships with guys, create that bond. And then you get traded, it’s like, ‘Man.’”
Adames, 28, probably can rest easy. If the Brewers traded him, they could slide Brice Turang to shortstop and use Joey Ortiz and others at second base. But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader. Turang and Ortiz might be succeeding in part because Adames is providing them with veteran cover.
Christian Yelich: The Brewers’ player-coach
Five years into a nine-year contract, left fielder Christian Yelich has assumed an outsized role with the Brewers, serving not just as their primary leader, but also acting almost as a coach.
Yelich, 32, recently helped Jake Bauers adopt a toe tap, helping the first baseman/outfielder turn around his season. He also eased Turang’s transition to leadoff by speaking extensively to him about hitting in that spot. Last Saturday, Yelich even ran the Brewers’ pre-game bunting drill, one day after dropping down an RBI bunt single himself.
The Brewers seemed a good bet to regress after losing manager Craig Counsell to the Chicago Cubs, trading staff ace Corbin Burnes to the Orioles and starting the season without two injured stalwarts, closer Devin Williams and right-hander Brandon Woodruff. Instead, the team leads the NL Central.
“We hold ourselves to a certain standard. There’s an accountability here,” Yelich said. “If you want to be on a bad team, do what bad teams do, talk like bad teams do, play like bad teams do. You can do that. That’s fine. But if you want to be on a good team and play winning baseball, you have to do it a certain way.”
MVP2110 wrote:Thunder Muscle wrote:MVP2110 wrote:The following players were acquired by the Brewers this past offseason
Joey Ortiz 135 OPS+
Rhys Hoskins 131 OPS+
Gary Sanchez 127 OPS+
Jake Bauers 127 OPS+
Bryan Hudson 0.81 ERA
Jared Koenig 2.93 ERA
And Ortiz was the only where Arnold gave up a truly significant asset(you could argue giving up decent prospects like Avina or Chambers are somewhat significant assets).
And That doesn't include the following players acquired last year
William Contreras 175 OPS+
Trevor Megill 0.93 ERA
Bryse Wilson 2.65 ERA
Colin Rea 3.45 ERA
Elvis Peguero 3.71 ERA
A pretty great job by Matt Arnold atleast from what we've seen so far
Agreed. What are some misses? Winker? I can’t put guys like Brian Anderson there as it was a minor move.
Winker is probably one although Wong also did nothing so it was trash for trash. Andrew Chafin is the only other than comes to mind
BUCKnation wrote:MVP2110 wrote:Thunder Muscle wrote:
Agreed. What are some misses? Winker? I can’t put guys like Brian Anderson there as it was a minor move.
Winker is probably one although Wong also did nothing so it was trash for trash. Andrew Chafin is the only other than comes to mind
I was going to mention that maybe those moves were mistimed because they’ve both been good this year but I see Winker has fallen off a cliff recently
Ayt wrote:Not trading Adames would be a huge mistake.
jakecronus8 wrote:Trades are part of the business. If your locker room is gonna get too emo to compete because their friend got traded you've got much bigger problems.
Iheartfootball wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Trades are part of the business. If your locker room is gonna get too emo to compete because their friend got traded you've got much bigger problems.
These guys aren't robots. Just like in life, if you have a team/family/friend(s)/community surrounding you that you trust and feel safe around, you will be in a regulated emotional mindset to play/work/live better.
It's an intangible that absolutely affects how players play, we just don't have a solid way to capture how much statistically...yet. I think that's the next frontier in sports.
Iheartfootball wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Trades are part of the business. If your locker room is gonna get too emo to compete because their friend got traded you've got much bigger problems.
These guys aren't robots. Just like in life, if you have a team/family/friend(s)/community surrounding you that you trust and feel safe around, you will be in a regulated emotional mindset to play/work/live better.
It's an intangible that absolutely affects how players play, we just don't have a solid way to capture how much statistically...yet. I think that's the next frontier in sports.
Ron Swanson wrote:I tend to agree with Rosenthal's conclusion but a little disagreement on how he reached it. Whatever you think of "locker room dynamics", Adames arguably provides way more on the field value than Hader did as an every game, middle-of-the-order bat. His power numbers and OPS are right back to his 2021 levels. At some point, you need to pivot from viewing everyone and everything as a future asset when you have a team that looks like it can actually make a postseason run.
jakecronus8 wrote:Iheartfootball wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Trades are part of the business. If your locker room is gonna get too emo to compete because their friend got traded you've got much bigger problems.
These guys aren't robots. Just like in life, if you have a team/family/friend(s)/community surrounding you that you trust and feel safe around, you will be in a regulated emotional mindset to play/work/live better.
It's an intangible that absolutely affects how players play, we just don't have a solid way to capture how much statistically...yet. I think that's the next frontier in sports.
IDK why this is a big deal in WI sports seemingly. Rodgers crys about the way the Packers move on from vets. The Holidays cry about getting traded. The brewers get booboo face when Hader is traded. Its literally all pro sports teams that go through the same stuff. Are we just getting soft?
Kerb Hohl wrote:Iheartfootball wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Trades are part of the business. If your locker room is gonna get too emo to compete because their friend got traded you've got much bigger problems.
These guys aren't robots. Just like in life, if you have a team/family/friend(s)/community surrounding you that you trust and feel safe around, you will be in a regulated emotional mindset to play/work/live better.
It's an intangible that absolutely affects how players play, we just don't have a solid way to capture how much statistically...yet. I think that's the next frontier in sports.
Most of the key guys had better stats after Hader was dealt. They had a bunch of weird losses where Woodruff got tagged in the 6th inning after a great start, etc...and Rodgers/Bush weren't awful in comparison to Hader, but both relievers that they had where they thought they could patch behind Hader underwhelmed.
The Padres are worse off, the Brewers are better off. Everyone left on the Brewers after that trade has probably been much happier since.
I totally get that the players shouldn't be treated entirely as robots, but it's also just a business.
Iheartfootball wrote:Kerb Hohl wrote:Iheartfootball wrote:
These guys aren't robots. Just like in life, if you have a team/family/friend(s)/community surrounding you that you trust and feel safe around, you will be in a regulated emotional mindset to play/work/live better.
It's an intangible that absolutely affects how players play, we just don't have a solid way to capture how much statistically...yet. I think that's the next frontier in sports.
Most of the key guys had better stats after Hader was dealt. They had a bunch of weird losses where Woodruff got tagged in the 6th inning after a great start, etc...and Rodgers/Bush weren't awful in comparison to Hader, but both relievers that they had where they thought they could patch behind Hader underwhelmed.
The Padres are worse off, the Brewers are better off. Everyone left on the Brewers after that trade has probably been much happier since.
I totally get that the players shouldn't be treated entirely as robots, but it's also just a business.
Sure, I'm not saying it's a direct correlation and I'm not making it a binary choice. Just that it's part of the recipe.
