Offseason Thread

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Frustrating offseason all around. If Kendrys Morales is not an impact player with a .300/.350/.450 slash line the team might actually hit rock bottom. I understand why Jason Vargas would be traded -- one of the more valuable non-Felix trade chips on the roster -- but now the rotation is Felix/Millwood/Beavan/???/??????? The Big Three won't be ready by opening day.

I agree with the school of thought that Morales' acquisition means firing Smoak into the sun, which I am greatly in favor of. What does it mean for Jesus Montero, however, if his catching does not improve? Is he effectively blocking Mike Zunino now, turning him into a sometime 1B/DH? Does he no longer have a future with the Mariners?

It is uncertain what is more frustrating, that Mariners fans should question the future of a Jack Z acquisition or that Mariners fans should question the acquisition being made in the first place, far into the past. But whatever. I'll follow this team through another 70-win slog. I'm like Brett Myers' wife: beaten up a few times, always back for more.

[TTown]

iwakuma seems like the best option behind felix, at least initially. i thought he was our best pitcher in august/september. is millwood really coming back? i honestly haven't heard anything. i think noesi will get another shot at the back of the rotation, and erasmo ramirez is at least intriguing.

and is hultzen really not going to be ready? i thought i heard he was a legitimate contender to make the rotation out of spring training. one of his selling points when he was drafted was that he'd be ready sooner rather than later.

i kinda figured, based on what we know now, we'd go with felix/iwakuma/hultzen/beavan/noesi until someone pitches their way out of the rotation, or one of the other prospects are ready. or we make a trade.

[Sweezo]

Apparently we just traded John Jaso for Mike Morse. Straight up. So now we have Montero, Smoak, Morales, and Morse...four guys who should play 1B/DH and that's about it. What are they going to do, stick Morse in the outfield? We've seen that before in Seattle, and it was a joke.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

Who cares. Jaso couldn't hit lefties and was expendable. Remember our offense the past couple of years? Beyond horrible. Morse is a giant upgrade for us. Doesnt matter that he can't play OF. It's easy to overlook.

[TTown]

smoak's the easy odd man out there, unless proven otherwise with a monster spring. i can't watch him suck for months at a time in hopes he has a hot stretch every now and then.

montero at catcher, morales at dh, morse at 1B. when zunino is ready we'll make a decision. or, if guti is healthy, we can stick morse in right and have two of the best defensive outfielders in the game cover most of the ground and try to limit morse' area.

i'm going to miss jaso. he was clutch.

[Sweezo]

Well, I'm about to sound grumpy, but so be it...

Remember our offense the past couple of years? Beyond horrible.

Right. And the only true bright spot on our offense last year was...John Jaso. Who do we play at catcher now? We're going trot Montero out there for 120 starts as the primary catcher? Because he's awful defensively. He's too stiff to block errant pitches on a regular basis, and with that hitch in his throwing motion teams can steal second base at will.

You know what team has done very well when acquiring patient hitters who can get on base? The A's. Hey, that's who we traded Jaso to. Hey, the A's made the playoffs last year. Maybe they know what they are doing...?

Jaso represented a shift in ideology away from throwing a lineup of hackers out there who couldn't work a count. This trade is a huge step backwards, and I expect the M's current lineup to put up plenty of games where they can't score and can't get to the bullpen because they don't have any. Do you like watching players chase offspeed pitches outside the strike zone? I don't.

Doesnt matter that he can't play OF. It's easy to overlook.

Sorry, but were you actively following the Mariners when this happened? Because I remember that play quite well. He was so damned uncoordinated he wasn't even able to track down a flyball in the outfield without falling on his face and breaking his body. It matters when the person is so bad at defense that he can't stay healthy when asked to do things baseball players should be able to do. I don't care which fielding stat people use but his UZR is just horrible. Whether you are a fan of stats or the eye test, it doesn't matter...Morse is horrible in the field and his inability to play defense will cost this team runs and cause them to lose games. I know this because it's happened many, many times in the past, and I don't see his defense improving at age 30-31.

He's a right handed hitter in his walk year who's had one good season. Why? Because he can't stay healthy enough to play an entire productive season.

I liked the Morales trade as we traded a contact pitcher in his walk year for a hitter with upside in his walk year. If the Morales trade had never happened and we executed this trade...I'd still be irritated because we overpaid, but at least I could see a clear spot/role for Morse.

Defense matters. Baserunning matters. And that will be painfully evident when half our lineup is made up for DH types crammed into the lineup. Who have we added this offseason? Morse, Bay, Morales, and Ibanez. Combine them with Smoak and Montero and that's six guys who are painfully similar to each other.

If we sign Olivo to platoon with Montero I'm just going to lose it.

[Sweezo]

montero at catcher, morales at dh, morse at 1B. when zunino is ready we'll make a decision. or, if guti is healthy, we can stick morse in right and have two of the best defensive outfielders in the game cover most of the ground and try to limit morse' area.

Z's comments this offseason have been a bit harsh towards Guti. It sounds like to have to earn his starting spot and show he can stay healthy in a potential walk year [the team has an option for him for next year]. My fear is an OF of Bay/Ibanez [LF], Saunders [CF], and Morse [RF] with Guti on the bench and Wells on the waiver wire.

[Sweezo]

What a strange offseason. Justin Upton is finally traded to the Braves for a package that doesn't seem quite the haul Seattle was offering, and in doing so now the Diamondbacks might land Rick Porcello who was another potential M's trade partner.

Wedge/Z both spoke yesterday. The tentative plan is to place Montero at C, Smoak at 1B, Morales at DH, and Morse in LF. Rumors persist that the M's are one of the top two bidders for M. Bourn, and Wedge didn't really give Ackley a strong vote of confidence as a leadoff hitter. I am not sure how I feel about that at this point as I don't know how he fits.

Another SP is still a huge need. Right now the rotation is Felix/Iwakuma/Beavan/Ramirez/Noesi. A veteran SP who bumps Noesi/Beavan to AAA is big. Does adding Bourn prohibit that?

[TTown]

What a strange offseason. Justin Upton is finally traded to the Braves for a package that doesn't seem quite the haul Seattle was offering, and in doing so now the Diamondbacks might land Rick Porcello who was another potential M's trade partner.

Wedge/Z both spoke yesterday. The tentative plan is to place Montero at C, Smoak at 1B, Morales at DH, and Morse in LF. Rumors persist that the M's are one of the top two bidders for M. Bourn, and Wedge didn't really give Ackley a strong vote of confidence as a leadoff hitter. I am not sure how I feel about that at this point as I don't know how he fits.

Another SP is still a huge need. Right now the rotation is Felix/Iwakuma/Beavan/Ramirez/Noesi. A veteran SP who bumps Noesi/Beavan to AAA is big. Does adding Bourn prohibit that?

i would hope not, as almost every single one of our acquisitions so far have been vets on one-year deals, which seem either to scream of desperation to appease fans with a winning season (even if that record is 82-80), or they actually think this line-up can contend in what looks like a brutal al west. if it's the latter, they need to bring in another arm. no question.

we're supposed to be spending money. one-year stop gaps aren't really what i had in mind, but since that's the direction we seem to be going, i guess we can't stop yet. in that vein, i'm no longer as opposed to michael bourn as i was a few weeks ago. i wouldn't break the bank for him by any means, but good christ we have almost zero substantial salary tied up to anyone after 2014. spend something. since it's looking more and more like we're going to have to stick a very undesirable defensive outfielder out there, and since guti is nothing if not unreliable, saunders and bourn would be able to track a lot of ground to (hopefully) make up for morse or raul's faults. we can stick bourn at lead off and put ackley back in the 2-hole, too.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

In regards to Morse and the M's, Sweezo, it's all a matter of opinion. To me, our offense has been so dreadful over the past handful of seasons, that when you can bring in a proven hitter (FWIW I never wanted to get rid of Morse. Always thought he needed more atbats), without giving up too much, it's a good thing. Especially for the M's. And Jaso IS NOT going to make or break a team. I loved the guy. I loved his defense and I loved his attitude. But he was expendable.

My main issue is Justin Smoak. Why is this bum still on the roster? Christ. Cut the guy and just put Morse at 1st. It would be better than the OF for him, but I'd be okay with Morse wherever so long as he's hitting above .275 and jacking 25+ homers. He'd be our best hitter with those stats, haha.

Bourne wouldn't be bad. Ackley pissed me off so much as our LO hitter that I'm open to anything. No way would Bourne flop like Figgins.

[TTown]

home sick today bored out of my mind, so i'm just going to riff. apologies in advance.

a mere five posts up you'll find that i was advocating justin smoak's release. i am now going to flip flop from that stance, and insert him back into the starting line up. he needs to be on a short leash, i concede, but i'm just not quite ready to outright give up on him. my line-up:

CF michael bourn
2B dustin ackley
RF michael morse
C jesus montero
DH kendrys morales
1B justin smoak
3B kyle seager
LF michael saunders
SS brendan ryan

w/ raul as a late inning pinch hitter.

it sounds more and more like we can get bourn on a 3 year deal. i'd rather pay a little more for 3 years than stretching it out to four. he can take the pressure off ackley at the lead off spot, and we can see more of the ackley we were beginning to appreciate in 2011. remember when we had adam kennedy batting clean up in 2011? DO YOU? those days are gone! our 3-5 hitters aren't the '27 yankees, but they're all legitimate middle-of-the-order bats, which is NOT something we've been able to say for quite some time. i know montero didn't win everybody over last season, but i thought he was fine for a catcher in his first full season and showed a lot of promise. and, as said above, i'm willing to give smoak one last chance. if he gets through april hitting .210 i'm fine with cutting him loose, but i don't know. i've just got a feeling he might put it all together. finally. seager/saunders/ryan we know all about. seager and saunders have ever-improving bats, ryan, well, ryan plays a hell of a shortstop.

i just don't see a role for jason bay.

felix hernandez
hisashi iwakuma
kyle lohse
danny hultzen
blake beavan/erasmo ramirez/hector noesi

why aren't we hot after lohse? we can more than afford to give up a 1st, and though lohse is 34 he doesn't rely on a fastball and, in safeco, could continue the extremely impressive 2-year run he's been on in st. louis. i think we could get him on a 2-year deal. worst case, we flip him at midseason a la cliff lee. best case, he's a reliable middle-of-the-rotation vet who keeps a spot warm for our arms coming up the pipes. he was spectacular last year, and we need another starter. we just do.

[BDP20]

I'm not sure about Lohse. I don't think this team is ready to give up a first-round pick for a 30+ year old pitcher especially coming from Cards. And when I say coming from the Cards, they always produce pitchers who overachieve (ie: Jeff Weaver and Joel Pinero come to mind).

I read somewhere we could potentially trade for Chris Capuano from the Dodgers or go after Joe Saunders.