RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Lakers (Tonight., 730PMEST)

[ozwizard8]

Kyrie is not a bad rebounder at all given his height

Kyrie would be a good rebounder if he plays at your local YMCA gym.
Having Kyrie makes you a worse rebounding team in the NBA.

If you have Brook Lopez, Giannis maybe you can afford Kyrie.
Jokic-Gordon-MPJ frontcourt is f'in tall and has the size. They should be fine to play Kyrie.

Mavs don't have a great frontcourt rotation to be a good rebounding team. Kyrie makes it worse.

[ozwizard8]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

You only quoted the first two sentences of my comment. I added the second part of it.

Adding Kyrie is not changing much on offense but it makes Mavs team suck on defense and rebounds. Luka becomes vulnerable as he starts to play along as a player with a huge liability on defense and rebounding.

Where exactly are you getting your info from? Mavs only have -1.7% rebounding with Kyrie on the floor. Which is nothing to be worried about.

Mavs best 5 man unit is L. Dončić | D. Exum | K. Irving | D. Jones | D. Lively. They outscore their opponents by 77 pts per 100 poss. Next best lineup also features Kyrie but they are at 36pts and with much less minutes example.

So all in all, i can't find anything that indicates Kyrie is bad for the Mavs like you're saying.

The main point is Kyrie making defense suffer. Whatever Doncic creates on offense becomes less valuable when Mavs lets easy points due to having Kyrie on.
When Kyrie is playing Luka becomes 2nd worst defender and he is required to defend a better offensive player. Mavs team cant focus on helping Luka as they need to cover Kyrie's a s s. Consequence is Luka getting targeted more and lose energy on defense.

So the main problem is defense with Kyrie on. Rebounding also gets worse but its a secondary concern compared to how Mavs concede points.

The lineups you provided have a small sample size. Otherwise, it'd be great to outscore opponents for 77pts per 100 poss.

Its also important to note that, Kyrie is a max player. A max player is supposed to elevate your team's game significantly.
No Kyrie, Mavs still great on offense, and better defensively. What is the point of paying MAX to a player who does no bring Wins ???

[tleikheen]

Kyrie would be a good rebounder if he plays at your local YMCA gym.
Having Kyrie makes you a worse rebounding team in the NBA.

If you have Brook Lopez, Giannis maybe you can afford Kyrie.
Jokic-Gordon-MPJ frontcourt is f'in tall and has the size. They should be fine to play Kyrie.

Mavs don't have a great frontcourt rotation to be a good rebounding team. Kyrie makes it worse

When did any team have Kyrie Irving in the lineup for his rebounding ????? Any Guesses ???
Did Cleveland count on Kyrie to be a rebounder on their 2016 NBA Championship team ???? Or was it for his 25 ppg and shooting for the NBA title ????

In 2016 he avged 3.2 rpg and this yr he's avging 3.9 rpg SO he's actually rebounding better then his Championship year.

[Archx]

You only quoted the first two sentences of my comment. I added the second part of it.

Adding Kyrie is not changing much on offense but it makes Mavs team suck on defense and rebounds. Luka becomes vulnerable as he starts to play along as a player with a huge liability on defense and rebounding.

Where exactly are you getting your info from? Mavs only have -1.7% rebounding with Kyrie on the floor. Which is nothing to be worried about.

Mavs best 5 man unit is L. Dončić | D. Exum | K. Irving | D. Jones | D. Lively. They outscore their opponents by 77 pts per 100 poss. Next best lineup also features Kyrie but they are at 36pts and with much less minutes example.

So all in all, i can't find anything that indicates Kyrie is bad for the Mavs like you're saying.

The main point is Kyrie making defense suffer. Whatever Doncic creates on offense becomes less valuable when Mavs lets easy points due to having Kyrie on.
When Kyrie is playing Luka becomes 2nd worst defender and he is required to defend a better offensive player. Mavs team cant focus on helping Luka as they need to cover Kyrie's a s s. Consequence is Luka getting targeted more and lose energy on defense.

So the main problem is defense with Kyrie on. Rebounding also gets worse but its a secondary concern compared to how Mavs concede points.

The lineups you provided have a small sample size. Otherwise, it'd be great to outscore opponents for 77pts per 100 poss.

Its also important to note that, Kyrie is a max player. A max player is supposed to elevate your team's game significantly.
No Kyrie, Mavs still great on offense, and better defensively. What is the point of paying MAX to a player who does no bring Wins ???

You can check multiple other lineups and you'll see it's not like you're saying. You make it sound like Mavs are 5-20 right now with Kyrie being absolute ****. It's quite the opposte actually, so again, i have no clue where you're getting your stats from and you haven't shown us anything to prove your theory other than "trust me because i say so".

I would be more than happy to agree with you if you give us a bit more detailed facts other than just rebounding gets worse, defense gets worse. Because there are multiple instances where stats show that rebounding, assists, defense, also gets worse when Luka plays but everything has to be taken into context and looked at from multiple angles. You can't just say Kyrie makes the team worse if they're winning WITH Kyrie and he has respectable stats aswell.

[41Dirk41]

Stop the Kyrie hater. Please.

[Bob8]

Where exactly are you getting your info from? Mavs only have -1.7% rebounding with Kyrie on the floor. Which is nothing to be worried about.

Mavs best 5 man unit is L. Dončić | D. Exum | K. Irving | D. Jones | D. Lively. They outscore their opponents by 77 pts per 100 poss. Next best lineup also features Kyrie but they are at 36pts and with much less minutes example.

So all in all, i can't find anything that indicates Kyrie is bad for the Mavs like you're saying.

The main point is Kyrie making defense suffer. Whatever Doncic creates on offense becomes less valuable when Mavs lets easy points due to having Kyrie on.
When Kyrie is playing Luka becomes 2nd worst defender and he is required to defend a better offensive player. Mavs team cant focus on helping Luka as they need to cover Kyrie's a s s. Consequence is Luka getting targeted more and lose energy on defense.

So the main problem is defense with Kyrie on. Rebounding also gets worse but its a secondary concern compared to how Mavs concede points.

The lineups you provided have a small sample size. Otherwise, it'd be great to outscore opponents for 77pts per 100 poss.

Its also important to note that, Kyrie is a max player. A max player is supposed to elevate your team's game significantly.
No Kyrie, Mavs still great on offense, and better defensively. What is the point of paying MAX to a player who does no bring Wins ???

You can check multiple other lineups and you'll see it's not like you're saying. You make it sound like Mavs are 5-20 right now with Kyrie being absolute ****. It's quite the opposte actually, so again, i have no clue where you're getting your stats from and you haven't shown us anything to prove your theory other than "trust me because i say so".

I would be more than happy to agree with you if you give us a bit more detailed facts other than just rebounding gets worse, defense gets worse. Because there are multiple instances where stats show that rebounding, assists, defense, also gets worse when Luka plays but everything has to be taken into context and looked at from multiple angles. You can't just say Kyrie makes the team worse if they're winning WITH Kyrie and he has respectable stats aswell.

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

[Archx]

The main point is Kyrie making defense suffer. Whatever Doncic creates on offense becomes less valuable when Mavs lets easy points due to having Kyrie on.
When Kyrie is playing Luka becomes 2nd worst defender and he is required to defend a better offensive player. Mavs team cant focus on helping Luka as they need to cover Kyrie's a s s. Consequence is Luka getting targeted more and lose energy on defense.

So the main problem is defense with Kyrie on. Rebounding also gets worse but its a secondary concern compared to how Mavs concede points.

The lineups you provided have a small sample size. Otherwise, it'd be great to outscore opponents for 77pts per 100 poss.

Its also important to note that, Kyrie is a max player. A max player is supposed to elevate your team's game significantly.
No Kyrie, Mavs still great on offense, and better defensively. What is the point of paying MAX to a player who does no bring Wins ???

You can check multiple other lineups and you'll see it's not like you're saying. You make it sound like Mavs are 5-20 right now with Kyrie being absolute ****. It's quite the opposte actually, so again, i have no clue where you're getting your stats from and you haven't shown us anything to prove your theory other than "trust me because i say so".

I would be more than happy to agree with you if you give us a bit more detailed facts other than just rebounding gets worse, defense gets worse. Because there are multiple instances where stats show that rebounding, assists, defense, also gets worse when Luka plays but everything has to be taken into context and looked at from multiple angles. You can't just say Kyrie makes the team worse if they're winning WITH Kyrie and he has respectable stats aswell.

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

I'm not sure Mavs could realistically find another max player for Kyrie. Maybe.. but i'm not sure.

[Mavrelous]

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

Luka is logging 44MPG with Exum playing 35MPG...
Mavs still need a 3rd ball handler.

In the missed Luka game against Memphis Kyrie was a disgrace, but this isn't usually the case, and he seems injured, we've seen Luka for 5 years, he needs 3-4 weeks off mid season, he has 4-5 weeks stretch where he sucks, and in the PO, you need Kyrie, Mavs lost against the Clippers because Brunson crapped the bed, and against the Warriors the whole roster was done, you need another star that can take over.
We're now watching best player in the world Luka, we saw it also last year in December, it doesn't last for full season.

[daoneandonly]

You can check multiple other lineups and you'll see it's not like you're saying. You make it sound like Mavs are 5-20 right now with Kyrie being absolute ****. It's quite the opposte actually, so again, i have no clue where you're getting your stats from and you haven't shown us anything to prove your theory other than "trust me because i say so".

I would be more than happy to agree with you if you give us a bit more detailed facts other than just rebounding gets worse, defense gets worse. Because there are multiple instances where stats show that rebounding, assists, defense, also gets worse when Luka plays but everything has to be taken into context and looked at from multiple angles. You can't just say Kyrie makes the team worse if they're winning WITH Kyrie and he has respectable stats aswell.

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

I'm not sure Mavs could realistically find another max player for Kyrie. Maybe.. but i'm not sure.

DOnt think there would be a deal to be had for said star, only person i could think of is Siakam. But would need to be a 3 way and Dallas would have to have an agreement with Siakam in place to extend.

[Archx]

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

I'm not sure Mavs could realistically find another max player for Kyrie. Maybe.. but i'm not sure.

DOnt think there would be a deal to be had for said star, only person i could think of is Siakam. But would need to be a 3 way and Dallas would have to have an agreement with Siakam in place to extend.

Honestly don't know what they could do with him. But i do know Nico is not crazy and he's not trading him because they would look like idiots after all that was said and done. Kyrie is also not playing bad. He's actually great for non Luka minutes.

What Mavs should and probably will focus on is if Green really can't get back to form and Hardy continues to play immature, i would assume they'll look to strengthen big wing or center position. If Raptors blow it up, they have couple of guys or if Hawks somehow still want to get rid of Capela.

[daoneandonly]

I'm not sure Mavs could realistically find another max player for Kyrie. Maybe.. but i'm not sure.

DOnt think there would be a deal to be had for said star, only person i could think of is Siakam. But would need to be a 3 way and Dallas would have to have an agreement with Siakam in place to extend.

Honestly don't know what they could do with him. But i do know Nico is not crazy and he's not trading him because they would look like idiots after all that was said and done. Kyrie is also not playing bad. He's actually great for non Luka minutes.

What Mavs should and probably will focus on is if Green really can't get back to form and Hardy continues to play immature, i would assume they'll look to strengthen big wing or center position. If Raptors blow it up, they have couple of guys or if Hawks somehow still want to get rid of Capela.

Look at Arch and I on the same page these days ha

[Bob8]

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

Luka is logging 44MPG with Exum playing 35MPG...
Mavs still need a 3rd ball handler.

In the missed Luka game against Memphis Kyrie was a disgrace, but this isn't usually the case, and he seems injured, we've seen Luka for 5 years, he needs 3-4 weeks off mid season, he has 4-5 weeks stretch where he sucks, and in the PO, you need Kyrie, Mavs lost against the Clippers because Brunson crapped the bed, and against the Warriors the whole roster was done, you need another star that can take over.
We're now watching best player in the world Luka, we saw it also last year in December, it doesn't last for full season.

Exum is not playing all his time as Pg, if we got star 4, we could move Grant on 3 and we would have more than enough guards. I agree that Kyrie is useful, but star 4 would be even more useful for Mavs.

Luka/Exum/Grant/star 4/Lively would be pretty lethal in offensive side and suddenly very big in D and we would still have pretty good bench, get backup C and someone like Hayward for Josh, Hardy and FRP and you might have one of the best roster in the league.

[Bob8]

I'm not sure Mavs could realistically find another max player for Kyrie. Maybe.. but i'm not sure.

DOnt think there would be a deal to be had for said star, only person i could think of is Siakam. But would need to be a 3 way and Dallas would have to have an agreement with Siakam in place to extend.

Honestly don't know what they could do with him. But i do know Nico is not crazy and he's not trading him because they would look like idiots after all that was said and done. Kyrie is also not playing bad. He's actually great for non Luka minutes.

What Mavs should and probably will focus on is if Green really can't get back to form and Hardy continues to play immature, i would assume they'll look to strengthen big wing or center position. If Raptors blow it up, they have couple of guys or if Hawks somehow still want to get rid of Capela.

I don't believe Josh and Hardy will bring as anything, we will need to include FRP and you're not doing that for player like Capela, and it won't be enough for OG.

[Archx]

DOnt think there would be a deal to be had for said star, only person i could think of is Siakam. But would need to be a 3 way and Dallas would have to have an agreement with Siakam in place to extend.

Honestly don't know what they could do with him. But i do know Nico is not crazy and he's not trading him because they would look like idiots after all that was said and done. Kyrie is also not playing bad. He's actually great for non Luka minutes.

What Mavs should and probably will focus on is if Green really can't get back to form and Hardy continues to play immature, i would assume they'll look to strengthen big wing or center position. If Raptors blow it up, they have couple of guys or if Hawks somehow still want to get rid of Capela.

Look at Arch and I on the same page these days ha

We always were, i simply didn't agree with your Green judgement I actually still do believe he can somehow redeem himself and be a great role player but i'm not sure what's going on with him this season. Maybe Kidd wanted him to do too much or having Grant and DJJ killed all his joy.

No matter what though i do want this team to either move forward or upgrade roster with or without him.

I don't believe Josh and Hardy will bring as anything, we will need to include FRP and you're not doing that for player like Capela, and it won't be enough for OG.

OG would be too much of a dream probably, perfect for this team.

[daoneandonly]

Honestly don't know what they could do with him. But i do know Nico is not crazy and he's not trading him because they would look like idiots after all that was said and done. Kyrie is also not playing bad. He's actually great for non Luka minutes.

What Mavs should and probably will focus on is if Green really can't get back to form and Hardy continues to play immature, i would assume they'll look to strengthen big wing or center position. If Raptors blow it up, they have couple of guys or if Hawks somehow still want to get rid of Capela.

Look at Arch and I on the same page these days ha

We always were, i simply didn't agree with your Green judgement I actually still do believe he can somehow redeem himself and be a great role player but i'm not sure what's going on with him this season. Maybe Kidd wanted him to do too much or having Grant and DJJ killed all his joy.

No matter what though i do want this team to either move forward or upgrade roster with or without him.

I don't believe Josh and Hardy will bring as anything, we will need to include FRP and you're not doing that for player like Capela, and it won't be enough for OG.

OG would be too much of a dream probably, perfect for this team.

Ha well him being good only helps the Mavs so it would be nice. Sadly some guys just dont care enough or have that fire after they get their money, WIggins is an example of such, and i unfortunately think Green is the same imo.

OG would be a dream scenario, too good to be true. But think we'd still be better off with a Larry Nance, Kenrich Williams, Jalen McDaniels type of guy even; way more attainable

[Bob8]

We have to understand something, Kyrie was great fit with LeBron, because LeBron was good defender. Luka and Kyrie together can't work like that ever, that's why more defensive oriented max player would be a much better fit with Luka. The only choice I see, is finding great defensive 4, who can also shoot and that is pretty difficult for assets Mavs have.

[ozwizard8]

I believe Kyrie is solid for Mavs, but I think the question he asks is, would some other max. player have greater impact than Kyrie? Mavs being 5:1 without Kyrie and evidently having much bigger needs in front court than backcourt, especially with Exum being capable Pg, he might have some point. Elite 3-5 would make Mavs much more dangerous team. But it's also true, that no such player was available for the package we gave to Nets.

Luka is logging 44MPG with Exum playing 35MPG...
Mavs still need a 3rd ball handler.

In the missed Luka game against Memphis Kyrie was a disgrace, but this isn't usually the case, and he seems injured, we've seen Luka for 5 years, he needs 3-4 weeks off mid season, he has 4-5 weeks stretch where he sucks, and in the PO, you need Kyrie, Mavs lost against the Clippers because Brunson crapped the bed, and against the Warriors the whole roster was done, you need another star that can take over.
We're now watching best player in the world Luka, we saw it also last year in December, it doesn't last for full season.

Brunson got better each year and helped to win 2 playoff series just before Mavs let him go for free.
If you want to see Kyrie's track record in recent 5 years, you'll see worse playoff performances. He caused defensive deficiencies but not won games/series for his teams.

I'd not mind adding Kyrie to Mavs WCF teams without substracting anyone.
But if you get Brunson, Dinwiddie, DFS out and also send unprotected picks away then you never become a WCF team again with Kyrie.
Mavs team have very limited assets. Cap space is always a limitation. So adding Kyrie as a player without eliminating anyone would be okay. But adding a max player means you lose tons of cap space, trade assets and f'in play D.Powell-DJJ lineups.