RS 23/24 - Mavs @ Pacers (Sund., 5PMEST)

[ozwizard8]

Anyone see a pattern here? Because Kidd sure doesn't.

Those stats are seriously alarming. Kidd needs to have a discussion with him and simplify his role into more off-ball and less on-ball. If he's not willing, there's at least 4 guys that I'd be happy to take his minutes: Green, Hardy, DJJ, Exum.

If he plays like this, he'll keep losing minutes for sure. They probably looking out for team chemistry issues, and there is also lack of SG in the roster. I wish we got Dinwiddie to immediately plug him as 3rd guard.

Do you know how many minutes THJ played while the Mavs went to WCF in 2022?
0

From that WCF team, we only have Luka-Tim-Powell-Maxi-Green left. Wish he was traded by now because his stats are like C.Wood stats if you ask me.

[Mavrelous]

The worst thing to do against the Pacers is live ball TO, THJ and PJW each had 4.
forget this one and go on, Cavs and Sixers are must win games, Mavs must establish seeding position, they got lucky Pelicans lost 2 in a row, due missing Ingram in one and Zion in the other.

[Teffer10]

The excessive Maxi minutes is concerning. Center is supposed to be a strength of ours but it's not a strength if Maxi is playing the amount of minutes he has in the last few games. No reason why he should have more minutes then both Lively and Gafford.

Also Kidd was completely out-classed as a coach by Rick today.

Didnt see game but noticed Lively played 14mins, Gaff 19, and Maxi 24.
Did Lively get injured?

[41Dirk41]

The excessive Maxi minutes is concerning. Center is supposed to be a strength of ours but it's not a strength if Maxi is playing the amount of minutes he has in the last few games. No reason why he should have more minutes then both Lively and Gafford.

Also Kidd was completely out-classed as a coach by Rick today.

Didnt see game but noticed Lively played 14mins, Gaff 19, and Maxi 24.
Did Lively get injured?

No, i don't think he was injuried... That's insane, we finally have 2 Cs and our brillant coach thinks that Kleber is our best option.

Maxi was never been a center, he is just a PF who can play some minutes at C in clutch or small ball situation.

He plays great 1 game every 10, we already know what he can brings to the team.

[joesha1698]

The Mavs are missing consistency and a disrupter.

With Luka and Kyrie - everything centers around them on offense. Which means you need high bball IQ and consistency around them to maximize their ability. Too many easy missed opportunities with turnovers and bad positions on defense. With PJ Washington and Hardaway being our biggest culprits in last night's game. Lively IQ is questionable right now. I know a lot of people sing his praises but he makes a lot of mistakes on offense and defense and has a ways to go, of course.

PJ Washington shot 6 times but each shot is way more important in this type of offense ( where it comes off of Kyrie and Luka ) bc our corner shooters decide if the defense stays home and this opens up the lob game for our bigs and forces defenses to play Luka and kyrie more honestly. PJ Washington has talent and his offensive bag is simple. 3 point shot, drive to the basket, floater. I think this style of play puts a lot of pressure on a guy like PJ Washington( who is more of a streaky shooter) because our offense depends so much on the corner 3 and he seems a bit streaky from the 3? He's probably more of a guy that needs touches and then can really get it going. However, this offense doesn't really give guys a lot of touches.. so we'll see how he figures it out. Maybe Luka, Kyrie, or Green should be our corner shooters depending on who has the ball on a given play and we use Pj more around the basket and mid range pick setter. Like if Luka has the ball on the top of the key, PJ should be the pick setter and Kyrie and Green corners. Kyrie has the ball ( PJ sets pick) and Luka and Green in the corners, etc. That's how important I feel like those corner 3s are for this team..Which brings me to my next point ..we need a disrupter.

Luka and Kyrie remind me of those 90 Bull teams with Jordan and Pippen in the sense that all of their offense primarily ran through them. However, they had a guy like Dennis Rodman who just ran out there and really disrupted things. We need someone like that - especially games like Indiana where everything is fast pace and rhythm based. This is where you need a Pat Beverly, Dillion Books, Draymond Green...someone to break the rhythm, distract, get under the skin, etc. little things like this take pressure off Luka and Kyrie and create turnovers and help you win games like this.

Right now our best disrupter is probably Josh Green....he's young and plays with energy..but we need someone with way more fire. This Mavs team needs someone on edge thats gonna bring it. I think we should use THJ expiring deal next year ( along with another piece if...needed) and we go out and get a guy like that.

A missed 3 from Dillion Brooks vs THJ is easier to handle ( here and there) when you have a guy giving 100% and really just creating havoc out there doing something at a high level. Just saying.

With that being said, who could Dallas realistically add as our disrupter? Do we even need one? I think this Dallas team needs more toughness and a disputer. This is why Draymond Green is needed and Steph Curry and Klay would probably not have won without him.

[joesha1698]

I also wanted to add that Luka is not a pass first point guard. How many pass first point guards avg 30+ points a game? Luka looks for his shot first and then sets people up after he gets his. He's not looking to make guys better ....it kinda happens as a default because of his scoring and his use of the pick and roll.

With that being said, Luka is a scorer ( like Kobe and Jordan) the only difference is he lacks the athleticism and thus is over dependent on his dribble and the pick and roll at times ...thus he slows down the game and forces Luka ball on his teammates. The problem with that is it limits his teammates touches and it's hard to create a rhythm - especially when we shoot nothing but 3s as a team.

Basically we play to Luka strengths on this team but at the expenses of his teammates. The constant pick and rolls and standing around waiting for open 3s is because it's good for Luka. So, we either need a real point guard or we need Luka to start playing like one ( like haliburton plays) an actually make an effort to get others involved before he gets his. I think this team is better with Luka scoring 20 pts and getting 15 assists a night when his teammates know the ball is coming. Because it's easier for Luka to scale back his game and focus on his teammates and then take over in the 4th than the other way around. Who cares if Luka is cooking all game long but his teammates have barely touched the ball and have no rhythm. It's great for Luka and his stats but it's why the Mavs haven't turned the corner and why Luka has not won an MVP yet. He needs to make his teammates better and feed them. They have to be involved in the game most of the game.

[BliscoSantos]

I also wanted to add that Luka is not a pass first point guard. How many pass first point guards avg 30+ points a game? Luka looks for his shot first and then sets people up after he gets his. He's not looking to make guys better ....it kinda happens as a default because of his scoring and his use of the pick and roll.

With that being said, Luka is a scorer ( like Kobe and Jordan) the only difference is he lacks the athleticism and thus is over dependent on his dribble and the pick and roll at times ...thus he slows down the game and forces Luka ball on his teammates. The problem with that is it limits his teammates touches and it's hard to create a rhythm - especially when we shoot nothing but 3s as a team.

Basically we play to Luka strengths on this team but at the expenses of his teammates. The constant pick and rolls and standing around waiting for open 3s is because it's good for Luka. So, we either need a real point guard or we need Luka to start playing like one ( like haliburton plays) an actually make an effort to get others involved before he gets his. I think this team is better with Luka scoring 20 pts and getting 15 assists a night when his teammates know the ball is coming. Because it's easier for Luka to scale back his game and focus on his teammates and then take over in the 4th than the other way around. Who cares if Luka is cooking all game long but his teammates have barely touched the ball and have no rhythm. It's great for Luka and his stats but it's why the Mavs haven't turned the corner and why Luka has not won an MVP yet. He needs to make his teammates better and feed them. They have to be involved in the game most of the game.

is that you Tim Hardaway Sr.

Yes ,Luka dribbles a lot but it's not like other players (apart from Kyrie) can do anything with the ball...Hardy ,Timmy create for themselves,Josh can't create for others and neither can any of the other Players...some set plays would definetely help this team but I still prefer Luka or Kyrie taking the shot than Timmy coming off a screen...Timmy will shoot the ball as soon as he gets it,there is no shot that doesn't Look good to him

It was one bad game...nobody was good against IND...things looked a lot better the previous games,no need for panic . Let's just hope Kidd makes some adjustments,though I wouldn't count on that...we saw what happens when Timmy or PJ or Green try to do something with the ball, it usualy ends in a turnover or bad shot

[Archx]

I think this team is better with Luka scoring 20 pts and getting 15 assists a night when his teammates know the ball is coming. Because it's easier for Luka to scale back his game and focus on his teammates and then take over in the 4th than the other way around.

Top 7 leaders in points generated per game + their % of the teams points per game. Do you recognize the name far ahead at the top? He generates almost 50% of Mavs points already, far ahead of everyone else.

-Luka Doncic 58.8 ppg (34.5p+24.3pa) 49.7%

-Trae Young 54.8 ppg (27.1p+27.7pa) 45.1%

-Halliburton 53 ppg (22.5p+30.5pa) 42.6%

-Joel Embiid 50.3 ppg (35.3p+15.0pa) 42.4%

-Giannis 49 ppg (31.3p+17.7pa) 39.7%

-SGA 48.7 ppg (31.1p+17.6pa) 40.3%

-Nikola Jokic 48.6 ppg (26.3p+22.3pa) 42.3%

Luka is also 3rd in APG, tied 1st in 2ndary APG, 3rd potential APG, 3rd in points generated purely from assists.

Kyrie is the guy who's suppose to help in 4th Q. I don't know if you noticed but Kidd doesn't run offense like Malone with Denver or Rick with Indiana. Mavs play PnR and then iso 1v5 actions for both Kyrie and Luka. You can't simply say player X needs to scale back in order for this or that to happen if the player X is the entire offensive system. It's on coach to figure out better.

But if you get scored 133 pts from an opposing team then that's a defensive issue not offense. Rick ran circles around Kidd by attacking THJ early on and Kidd didn't even recognize that and Mavs fell into an early hole. They simply pressured and outpaced Mavs. It's what great coach does, plays strength to opposing weaknesses.

[Apz]

Didnt feel mavs played a bad game, just some mistakes. But it felt like indiana played an almost perfect game

[arkuo]

Dallas didnt have a lot of mistakes. This game is more of Carlisle schooling Luka and Kidd. He did his homework and his gameplan worked perfectly. You gotta give Indiana credit. Mavs will be fine. Even if the end up last seed in the playoffs, Mavs have the capability to make Minnesota sweat, maybe even beat them in a 7 game series.

[Mavrelous]

Dallas didnt have a lot of mistakes. This game is more of Carlisle schooling Luka and Kidd. He did his homework and his gameplan worked perfectly. You gotta give Indiana credit. Mavs will be fine. Even if the end up last seed in the playoffs, Mavs have the capability to make Minnesota sweat, maybe even beat them in a 7 game series.

That's basically it, RC owns Luka, he played him 5 times, has 3-2 record on him, and the 2 losses came in tanking periods for the Pacers, every time he needed a win he got it.

[BliscoSantos]

Dallas didnt have a lot of mistakes. This game is more of Carlisle schooling Luka and Kidd. He did his homework and his gameplan worked perfectly. You gotta give Indiana credit. Mavs will be fine. Even if the end up last seed in the playoffs, Mavs have the capability to make Minnesota sweat, maybe even beat them in a 7 game series.

That's basically it, RC owns Luka, he played him 5 times, has 3-2 record on him, and the 2 losses came in tanking periods for the Pacers, every time he needed a win he got it.

It wasn't Luka that he schooled,he schooled Kidd... Kidd's tinkering with the lineups cost the Mavs a lot of games in the last two years...I get it , you're trying different things,but it's not like your a top seed team that can experiment that much...at some point he needs to get his Head out of his ass and treat the rest of the season like it's the playoffs...you wanna build of the confidence of some Players,I get that, but if it is costing you games stop...if someone has a bad day,sit him down...you have a deep enough roster now... no more excuses

[Pelly24]

I also wanted to add that Luka is not a pass first point guard. How many pass first point guards avg 30+ points a game? Luka looks for his shot first and then sets people up after he gets his. He's not looking to make guys better ....it kinda happens as a default because of his scoring and his use of the pick and roll.

With that being said, Luka is a scorer ( like Kobe and Jordan) the only difference is he lacks the athleticism and thus is over dependent on his dribble and the pick and roll at times ...thus he slows down the game and forces Luka ball on his teammates. The problem with that is it limits his teammates touches and it's hard to create a rhythm - especially when we shoot nothing but 3s as a team.

Basically we play to Luka strengths on this team but at the expenses of his teammates. The constant pick and rolls and standing around waiting for open 3s is because it's good for Luka. So, we either need a real point guard or we need Luka to start playing like one ( like haliburton plays) an actually make an effort to get others involved before he gets his. I think this team is better with Luka scoring 20 pts and getting 15 assists a night when his teammates know the ball is coming. Because it's easier for Luka to scale back his game and focus on his teammates and then take over in the 4th than the other way around. Who cares if Luka is cooking all game long but his teammates have barely touched the ball and have no rhythm. It's great for Luka and his stats but it's why the Mavs haven't turned the corner and why Luka has not won an MVP yet. He needs to make his teammates better and feed them. They have to be involved in the game most of the game.

TBH I don't think the Kobe and MJ differences really make much of a difference, as they were both definitely ball hogs. I think too many of these conversations are based on outcome and they're always "what have you done for me lately?" The mavs play at a 52 or 53-win pace when Luka and Kyrie are both playing, and that's not even taking into account that they're better when Lively is in the lineup, and now they're team has gotten considerably deeper. Luka brought a less talented team to the conference finals, he's shown year after year that the Clippers and other defenses can't really affect him. He's already easily an MVP level player, he's not the reason this team has some problems (mind you, they were just in a 7-game win streak). Now they've got another legit big man and a decent wing in PJ. Tim is playing badly, but he's always been streaky and I think you just gotta hope he's in his "get 16-20 ppg in a tough playoff series" form when the time comes. He can still get hot and be useful.

If the Mavs had started this season with Gafford and PJ and if Powell didn't land on Kyrie's leg with all of his weight, they would probably be a top 4 or 5 seed at minimum. They can still get there. 25 games left, and I think they can win 20 or 21 of them if they really lock in, 15 at worst, 17 or so more likely.

But honestly, Luka is just amazing, with the way he plays, if you can't fit around a GOAT-level type offensive player, that's your problem kinda. I actually kinda wish Kyrie would just be selfish sometimes. He's never been the ball-hog people suggested, but I think sometimes he should just realize that a possession where Kyrie dribbles the air out of the ball for 15 seconds is probably better than a Tim Hardaway heat check. Honestly, his two years In Boston were cool because he had a clarity about things. It was like the whole team realized that if you just keep the score close, you can just run straight Kyrie ISOs or whatever and he'll get you a good shot without turning the ball over. But every time PJ or Tim or someone got it late last game, it was just kind of a disaster. Thats what I like about Luka. there's a clarity to him, and he's not insecure about it: He knows him pounding the ball and taking bad shots is actually a pretty damn good approach. Kobe and MJ knew that too. Salute.

[Pelly24]

Dallas didnt have a lot of mistakes. This game is more of Carlisle schooling Luka and Kidd. He did his homework and his gameplan worked perfectly. You gotta give Indiana credit. Mavs will be fine. Even if the end up last seed in the playoffs, Mavs have the capability to make Minnesota sweat, maybe even beat them in a 7 game series.

I've been saying this, but I actually think the Mavs, if healthy, beat the Wolves in 5 games. I don't think they can guard Luka or Kyrie the whole series, or really at all, and I def don't believe in KAT. Ant can probably go off, but I think he's been overhyped quite a bit, I don't see the all-around IQ or bball savvy, and the wolves don't have an elite offense despite KAT's elite shooting and Ant's scoring.