Playoffs 2024 - R1 - G4 - Mavs vs Clippers (Sund., 3:30PMEST)

[Bob8]

The +/- thing is spooky. Luka +8; Kyrie +0.8. It really hasn't looked like Luka has been himself. And yesterday, because of foul trouble or some other reason... he really offered little resistance on defense. Up to this point... Luka's best moments was defense G3 and a 3pointer G2?



They havent updated with last game stats, but t has been very grim all series and the numbers are very telling. Luka should be better now than when he played better Clippers defenders back then.

Seeing every kind of guy glued to him... even when he had zubac, plumlee... Add this to the body language/"complaining"/"frustration"/"bad shots"/a few bad turnovers.

Maybe it's very unreasonable to expect "perfection" or something... but Luka has definitely not felt like he has had a single good game yet and hasn't looked like himself offensively.

Surely it can't be that the Clippers are suddenly amazing on defense... or the refs allowing more contact... etc? "This" can't be the new playoff Luka for sure... but time is running out to start seeing the real version.

Next game Wednesday, so there's a couple of days to rest. A real Luka game is due.

It's really easy. D that referees alow and Clippers play can be break only, if Luka starts hitting his step backs. Unfortunately Luka is not making them. In the moment he starts making them, game will change, they will have to double and blitz him and other Mavs will get open shots. On the other hand, if Luka won't start hitting 3s and Kyrie doesn't continue to dominate in ISO Mavs are toasted.

[Dirk]

Can anyone guess who has the best +/- for the Clippers, without looking? And the worst?

[Mavrelous]

Can anyone guess who has the best +/- for the Clippers, without looking? And the worst?

Plumlee is the best? For worst I'd go with Mann.

[Dirk]

Can anyone guess who has the best +/- for the Clippers, without looking? And the worst?

Plumlee is the best? For worst I'd go with Mann.

Spoilers! Don't cheat everyone.

Spoiler:

Westbrook +5.5
Harden -4.3
Kawhi -6

[Bob8]

Can anyone guess who has the best +/- for the Clippers, without looking? And the worst?

Like your question sounds, I would say Plumlee the best and 1 of Harden/PG3 the worst.

[Mavrelous]

Can anyone guess who has the best +/- for the Clippers, without looking? And the worst?

Plumlee is the best? For worst I'd go with Mann.

Spoilers! Don't cheat everyone.

Spoiler:

Westbrook +5.5
Harden -4.3
Kawhi -6

Where are the numbers from, BBref has totally different numbers, yours seem more correct.

[Mavrelous]

Mavs have 8.5 NetRTG with Kyrie/Luka on the floor, which is very high for a tight PO series, you really can't ask for more against a team like the Clippers
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612742&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=1629029,202681

With Luka alone, it's OK, with Luka off, it's a total disaster, Kidd must figure out what to do in non-Luka minutes, so that he can be scaled back to 36 minutes instead of 46.

[Dirk]

Plumlee is the best? For worst I'd go with Mann.

Spoilers! Don't cheat everyone.

Spoiler:

Westbrook +5.5
Harden -4.3
Kawhi -6

Where are the numbers from, BBref has totally different numbers, yours seem more correct.

Saw on nba.com stats.

Quite surprising to see -redacted- as the +/- leader for the Clippers. I suppose this destroys the validity of the +/- on such a small sample.

[Bob8]

Mavs have 8.5 NetRTG with Kyrie/Luka on the floor, which is very high for a tight PO series, you really can't ask for more against a team like the Clippers
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612742&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=1629029,202681

With Luka alone, it's OK, with Luka off, it's a total disaster, Kidd must figure out what to do in non-Luka minutes, so that he can be scaled back to 36 minutes instead of 46.

I don't believe much can be done. Kyrie is not a Pg, especially not with that kind of D and others even less. Probably the best solution is to play with the best defenders, when Luka sits and limit as much as possible opponents scoring. Luka will still need to play 40+, if they want to win.

[ChipotleWest]

I mean how do we know Kidd won't do this again in Game 5? There is no limit to how stupid I think he is, he might. He never acted like he was wrong for playing Maxi or not playing Lively or Gafford, what's to stop him from doing it again?

[Bob8]

Spoilers! Don't cheat everyone.

Spoiler:

Westbrook +5.5
Harden -4.3
Kawhi -6

Where are the numbers from, BBref has totally different numbers, yours seem more correct.

Saw on nba.com stats.

Quite surprising to see -redacted- as the +/- leader for the Clippers. I suppose this destroys the validity of the +/- on such a small sample.

There's no validity of the +/- for the single player. +/- just shows which lineups played well, someone scoring 50 points and other 1, they both had the same +/-. And then player with 1 point sits and opponents make a run and suddenly player with 1 point is having + 10 and player with 50 points - 5 +/-.

[Bob8]

I mean how do we know Kidd won't do this again in Game 5? There is no limit to how stupid I think he is, he might. He never acted like he was wrong for playing Maxi or not playing Lively or Gafford, what's to stop him from doing it again?

Kyrie can't play better, we can just hope he doesn't play worse. D can't be much better, Kidd will coach like he always coach. It's basically on Luka. Good Luka, Mavs win, bad one, they lose.

[ChipotleWest]

I mean how do we know Kidd won't do this again in Game 5? There is no limit to how stupid I think he is, he might. He never acted like he was wrong for playing Maxi or not playing Lively or Gafford, what's to stop him from doing it again?

Kyrie can't play better, we can just hope he doesn't play worse. D can't be much better, Kidd will coach like he always coach. It's basically on Luka. Good Luka, Mavs win, bad one, they lose.

I'm talking about benching the two bigs and letting Harden run wild in the lane on Maxi again. We can't win that way even if Kyrie plays better and we get good Luka.

[Archx]

Frank Vogel? Anyone? Any thoughts?

You would feel the same frustrations with Vogel as you feel with Kidd. Mavs need X and O coach who can inject some versatility into this offense and put role players in an even better position to succeed. Look at Denver running MULTIPLE screens, cuts, sets, etc... through the game and then check Vogel or Kidd, iso, iso, iso...

After watching Mavs training videos or even Gleague videos, i guarantee you Dudley would be 100% better than Kidd as a head coach.

[Mavrelous]

Spoilers! Don't cheat everyone.

Spoiler:

Westbrook +5.5
Harden -4.3
Kawhi -6

Where are the numbers from, BBref has totally different numbers, yours seem more correct.

Saw on nba.com stats.

Quite surprising to see -redacted- as the +/- leader for the Clippers. I suppose this destroys the validity of the +/- on such a small sample.

OK, these are the on court stats not on/off, his on/off is actually much better.

[Bob8]

I mean how do we know Kidd won't do this again in Game 5? There is no limit to how stupid I think he is, he might. He never acted like he was wrong for playing Maxi or not playing Lively or Gafford, what's to stop him from doing it again?

Kyrie can't play better, we can just hope he doesn't play worse. D can't be much better, Kidd will coach like he always coach. It's basically on Luka. Good Luka, Mavs win, bad one, they lose.

I'm talking about benching the two bigs and letting Harden run wild in the lane on Maxi again. We can't win that way even if Kyrie plays better and we get good Luka.

We can, if we don't start with - 31.

[ozwizard8]

Cannot imagine THJ would be worse than Exum, so timidly bad.

Check Luka +/- even when playing bad by his standards...
Mavs have no backup PG, Kyrie is the best Maverick this series hands down, but he's not a PG, not against this Clippers defense.
Luka can't sit, Mavs just can't operate offensively without him, Exum has been a huge let down.

Luka has + 76 on/off net rtg. Mavs offensive rtg is 68, when he sits. And all that with him playing bad.

Kidd should have prepare team to play without Luka in those 82 RS games, problem is that playoffs and the way games are officiated just makes the game being totally different than in RS, Exum is lost and players like Josh can't create anything anyway. Similar thing happened to Brunson in first playoffs, where refereeing was a lot more friendly than nowadays.

Then again Kidd didnt have had 82 games with PJ-Gafford who supposed to start.
Thj is injured and even if he wasnt he is not a good piece as 6th men. We kinda rely on Exum Hardy but they arent playoff proven so it gets hard.

Some people get mad when I say there is a level difference between MPJ and PJ but there is. MPJ is a legit scorer #3 option.

Still we need to rest Luka a little bit more. We can try those minutes with a better defensive lineup and try more 3s relying on variance.

[ozwizard8]

Frank Vogel? Anyone? Any thoughts?

You would feel the same frustrations with Vogel as you feel with Kidd. Mavs need X and O coach who can inject some versatility into this offense and put role players in an even better position to succeed. Look at Denver running MULTIPLE screens, cuts, sets, etc... through the game and then check Vogel or Kidd, iso, iso, iso...

After watching Mavs training videos or even Gleague videos, i guarantee you Dudley would be 100% better than Kidd as a head coach.

Denver happens to be much better constructed roster. Especially their starting 5 is.

Many said Kidd would be better than Carlisle. So I am not buying Dudley to be better than Kidd.
It sometimes comes to matchups and roster quality.

I’d not mind go for Budenhoser but I dont think Dudley caliber would help at all…

[Archx]

Frank Vogel? Anyone? Any thoughts?

You would feel the same frustrations with Vogel as you feel with Kidd. Mavs need X and O coach who can inject some versatility into this offense and put role players in an even better position to succeed. Look at Denver running MULTIPLE screens, cuts, sets, etc... through the game and then check Vogel or Kidd, iso, iso, iso...

After watching Mavs training videos or even Gleague videos, i guarantee you Dudley would be 100% better than Kidd as a head coach.

Many said Kidd would be better than Carlisle.

I'm not sure anyone said that lol... We knew Kidd was very much worse possible signing specially with his past on and off the court.

[AJace]

I mean how do we know Kidd won't do this again in Game 5? There is no limit to how stupid I think he is, he might. He never acted like he was wrong for playing Maxi or not playing Lively or Gafford, what's to stop him from doing it again?

I mean, we've seen this before in the RS. Kleber plays more than Lively or Gaff, Mavs lose, and Kidd gets heat for it. Next game we'll probably see Gafford and Lively play much more, but it's gonna be much harder because Clips got momentum and homecourt. If Mavs lose, Kidd will then say, "See? It's not about Maxi." But the point is last night was a very winnable game and could've pretty much been the most pivotal one in this series.

It's just so stupid that we drafted Lively and traded for Gafford specifically because we want a last line defense to make up for our defensively deficient backcourt. It's just so hard to fathom how Kleber's "spacing" ability could make up for all those easy Harden baskets, all the possible offensive rebounds, or even lob presence in a night where Luka is hobbled and we were putting all our chances on Kyrie's shotmaking.