Playoffs 2024 - R2 - G2 - Mavs @ Thunder (Thursd., 9:30PMEST)

[Bob8]

I guess it's not fair to imagine Luka to be a superhero playing full throttle the whole game... but...

It's easy to notice how he looks like an old lady a few plays a game, which leads to bad turnover, giving up bad offensive rebound, not trying on defense.

Again... it's unreasonable to expect him to be 100% at all times. And we know we watch him all the time... every little thing he does is analysed, so it's "unfair". But yeah... he has some really bad looking plays where he looks slow, fat and all those things --- I was just reading some online comments made during the game and it's always kind of amusing reading people comment on how bad he looks etc... and then he usually still manages to make good plays/hit big shots.

He's clearly not himself though and he's had some bad luck... trip in the first game... trip in the second game. And a couple of other bad hits.

Mavs offense with Luka 116.6, Mavs offense without Luka 93.9. Mavs D with Luka 110.1, Mavs D without Luka 113.3. Net diff 26.1. And all that with being fat and in shooting slump.

You like to use stats when they are useful to make a case for Luka, but you dont like it when others do the reverse against Luka and favouring other guys. When Luka had "bad" on/off you tried really hard to disprove it.

We know that the team is not playing at their best and some other role players are really lost at the moment.

If you think Luka has been playing well and up to his level. That's fine!

I believe that I have explained to you the difference in comparing lineups of a single team and a single player's impact between different teams. First is very important for making the right lineup, and is saying which lineup works and which doesn't. Second is comparing apples to oranges.

You shouldn't be afraid to admit that you don't understand much about basketball analytics, many don't.

To put it simple Mavs are totally dependent on lineups with Luka. And it's not that difficult to understand why, because he gives a lot space to others, Kyrie included, even if he's not hitting his shots, because the D is focused on him.

His only problem in this playoffs is being off from 3. Take his normal % and his numbers would be unbelievable again. Why is in shooting slump, who knows, that things happen even to much better shooters like Curry.

[Dirk]

You shouldn't be afraid to admit that you don't understand much about basketball analytics, many don't.

You have to be trolling at this point.

Doctor J and other fine users (who know basketball analytics) have tried to lecture you over the years over "basketball analytics" and you are writing this garbage here.

You literally are bringing up numbers from an handful of games. All the while that you got upset over people that compared season's worth of games and you were so defensive about it.

Look, I love Luka and all of that, but I am also a Mavs fan. Mavs fans can love Luka and criticize him.

Luka only fans such as yourself just see and care for one thing. That is totally fine with me, but you don't have to be annoying and unpleasant to others.

[Bob8]

You shouldn't be afraid to admit that you don't understand much about basketball analytics, many don't.

You have to be trolling at this point.

Doctor J and other fine users (who know basketball analytics) have tried to lecture you over the years over "basketball analytics" and you are writing this garbage here.

You literally are bringing up numbers from an handful of games. All the while that you got upset over people that compared season's worth of games and you were so defensive about it.

Look, I love Luka and all of that, but I am also a Mavs fan. Mavs fans can love Luka and criticize him.

Luka only fans such as yourself just see and care for one thing. That is totally fine with me, but you don't have to be annoying and unpleasant to others.

Again, we are not talking about the same thing. I always said that +/- is great for comparing lineups in 1 team. We can see which lineups works and which don't. There can't be any discussion. +/- works great. We can see which players play great together and which aren't.

Dr. MJ is saying that we can compare impact of a single player between different teams, which we of course can't, because they are playing with very different teammates and for teams with very different success. And they know we can't, so they're doing various regression models and adjustments to make things look better. But in the end, you're still comparing player in a great team to a player in an average team. And you know what, in 99% will a star in a great team have better +/- than a star in an average team.

There's not such thing as Luka only fans, at least not in Europe, because the only that matters for us is Mavs and Luka winning. Nobody in Europe cares about anything but winning, anything else is failure. So we want THJ, Kyrie, Lively...to play as good as possible and aren't
upset if Luka is not having great stats in wins. Only winning matters. Sure I'm here because of Luka, but I want for Mavs to win as much as anyone else, and I know very well that in basketball single player never wins alone.

Maybe you should look at who started unplesant conversation. I gave you numbers and you attacked me, how I'm talking differently in general board. And then I explained to you, that you don't understand some things, which you clearly don't. And then you continue with Luka's fanboy argument, which is pretty pathetic from the mod, if I may add.

Sure you can criticise Luka, but saying that he's fat and unprepared after season he had is laughable. He has played around 90 games since Avgust and he was great in 85% of them, if this is a sign of unprepared and fat player then I don't know what to say. When I'm saying that he's in shooting slump, don't I criticise him too? The difference is, that makes much more sense than being bad conditioned, knowing that he plays nonstop, with big usage. Doncic being fat is just so lame, unworthy of Mavs fans.

And for the record, if Mavs win, Kyrie is clear MVP for me.

[tleikheen]

Mavs arent totally dependant on Luka every aspect of the game but we all know they wont go anywhere near a Championship without him. Last night the most important run of the game was right after Luka was subbed out . The Mavs turned up the pace immediately and THJ had the best play of his playoffs in that stretch.
But thats needed to build the confidence in Luka that his team mates have his back.
That run woke the Mavs up and I got hope up for the Mavs the next two games.

[daoneandonly]

I think there's a stat out there where Mavs are 8-0 when Luka's usage rate is low, like under 30 or something.

[BliscoSantos]

Mavs arent totally dependant on Luka every aspect of the game but we all know they wont go anywhere near a Championship without him. Last night the most important run of the game was right after Luka was subbed out . The Mavs turned up the pace immediately and THJ had the best play of his playoffs in that stretch.
But thats needed to build the confidence in Luka that his team mates have his back.
That run woke the Mavs up and I got hope up for the Mavs the next two games.

And already Hardaway Sr.,after the first good game in a while by his son, making unnecessary comments that could create some tensions between Luka and Timmy and kill the chemistry of the team ...how dumb can you be ,whinning about playstyle in a win

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas-mavericks-tim-hardaway-creates-big-distraction-wild-luka-doncic-take

[Dirk]

Mavs arent totally dependant on Luka every aspect of the game but we all know they wont go anywhere near a Championship without him. Last night the most important run of the game was right after Luka was subbed out . The Mavs turned up the pace immediately and THJ had the best play of his playoffs in that stretch.
But thats needed to build the confidence in Luka that his team mates have his back.
That run woke the Mavs up and I got hope up for the Mavs the next two games.

77-77 Josh Green comes in for Luka

93-84 Luka comes in for Kyrie

Everything looks better when ball goes in the net. THJr fouled 2 times shooting 3s and made one of them too.

[Realtalk420]

If someone said after the end of the regular season that Luka is fat/ not in condition he would get bashed for saying that and I think we can all agree he looked fine (condition wise). But then he suddenly gains weight/runs out of condition in what 2-3 weeks?
Doesn’t sound logical to me. So 2 things are left then in my opinion - either the injury is bothering him or he is in a shooting slump, or even both.
But what I’ve noticed over the years is whenever he is playing bad, is in a slump the first thing people will say is he got fat, it’s his conditioning etc. But then when he starts playing to his standard again people soon forget and then he suddenly isn’t fat anymore. Hmm…
But I’m going to agree he could work on his body more, there is always room for improvement…just don’t expect to see him “skinny” (pre 2021) ever again, his body changed.
Anyway after yesterdays good game (5-8 3pm) I hope he can maintain the good shooting and shoots more to his RS %.

[tleikheen]

Tim Hardaway Jr's dad is the ultimate little league dad and Im sure the whole Mavs team knows it . The reality is THJ showed he still has game the Mavs need and if he can contribute good shooting for a stretch his shooting will scramble OKC's defense even more thin.

[Realtalk420]

Yeah imagine if Luka AND Thj regain their shot…

[dygaction]

I must agree with Bob this time.

People have short memories. Luka didn't come into this season out of shape.
Furthermore, just because he had a better game last night doesn't mean that he isn't injured or that the injury doesn't hinder his gameplay. To me, he's more of a fighter who prefers to play and try to give maximum he can even when injured. This may cost him in the future as things like that can shorten players' careers, but for now, it is what it is.

I guess it's not fair to imagine Luka to be a superhero playing full throttle the whole game... but...

It's easy to notice how he looks like an old lady a few plays a game, which leads to bad turnover, giving up bad offensive rebound, not trying on defense.

Again... it's unreasonable to expect him to be 100% at all times. And we know we watch him all the time... every little thing he does is analysed, so it's "unfair". But yeah... he has some really bad looking plays where he looks slow, fat and all those things --- I was just reading some online comments made during the game and it's always kind of amusing reading people comment on how bad he looks etc... and then he usually still manages to make good plays/hit big shots.

He's clearly not himself though and he's had some bad luck... trip in the first game... trip in the second game. And a couple of other bad hits.

Sooner or later we need to understand the cause and effect of him looking not in best shape and injury. You cannot over train upper body muscles in between playoff games, and his knees may be needed to be saved just for the games, preventing him from doing cardio.

Subtle injuries can have indirect or hard-to-link effects. For example, a tiny string of muscle in elbow due to over stretchy may not affect any of Shaq's drible, power, backdown... but if he does not want to or cannot hang on the rim to reduce the impact on knees or risk of landing on others' feet, he would have to reduce the number of dunks, leading to poor shooting %.

[tleikheen]

Yeah imagine if Luka AND Thj regain their shot…

and Exum .... this is why so many analysts were saying no one will want to play the Mavs in the playoffs.

The Mavs are toughening up with no easy cakewalks towards the Western conference title. They are becoming battle tested even though everyone wanted them to cruise through to the title .One by one the Mavs players are becoming warriors in battle which ultimately they need to be if they want to be Champions.

[Bob8]

If someone said after the end of the regular season that Luka is fat/ not in condition he would get bashed for saying that and I think we can all agree he looked fine (condition wise). But then he suddenly gains weight/runs out of condition in what 2-3 weeks?
Doesn’t sound logical to me. So 2 things are left then in my opinion - either the injury is bothering him or he is in a shooting slump, or even both.
But what I’ve noticed over the years is whenever he is playing bad, is in a slump the first thing people will say is he got fat, it’s his conditioning etc. But then when he starts playing to his standard again people soon forget and then he suddenly isn’t fat anymore. Hmm…
But I’m going to agree he could work on his body more, there is always room for improvement…just don’t expect to see him “skinny” (pre 2021) ever again, his body changed.
Anyway after yesterdays good game (5-8 3pm) I hope he can maintain the good shooting and shoots more to his RS %.

Exactly, he was playing MVP basketball the whole season long.

His post All Star numbers were 33.2/10.1/10.3; 39.5% for 3. And after 10 days break, he's fat/fatigue/bad conditioned? Are people really saying that?

If Luka gets his 3pts % back, nobody will talk about fat Luka anymore. I hope he does, for sake of the Mavs and fanboys like me.

[ChipotleWest]

Someone posted this on a Mavs forum.

Fans were screaming all night in OKC and both Luka and Kyrie complained to security to address it. Our guys didn't get anyone kicked out, but security did tell them to chill out. It's the reason both Luka and Kyrie taunted the fans upon leaving (Luka did the arms and Kyrie did a sarcastic wave)

Luka said fans were calling his wife and children names.

Kyrie didn't say the nature of the taunts, but responded with "all races are god's children"

Some clips I saw had fans calling Luka's wife a "b--ch" and "dog face" and I heard the N-word more than once in clips from courtside.

Classless OKC fans.

[MassimoPayne]

Someone posted this on a Mavs forum.

Fans were screaming all night in OKC and both Luka and Kyrie complained to security to address it. Our guys didn't get anyone kicked out, but security did tell them to chill out. It's the reason both Luka and Kyrie taunted the fans upon leaving (Luka did the arms and Kyrie did a sarcastic wave)

Luka said fans were calling his wife and children names.

Kyrie didn't say the nature of the taunts, but responded with "all races are god's children"

Some clips I saw had fans calling Luka's wife a "b--ch" and "dog face" and I heard the N-word more than once in clips from courtside.

Classless OKC fans.

OKC fans are so dumb. They don't even realize that they are motivating Luka and Kyrie instead of getting on their nerves

[tleikheen]

Classless OKC fans.

Like we didnt know racism is strong in OKC

[41Dirk41]

Jason Kidd is not my coach

[ChipotleWest]

Jason Kidd is not my coach

So you're not the guy in the avatar? Because he is that guys coach.

[Archx]

Mavs arent totally dependant on Luka every aspect of the game but we all know they wont go anywhere near a Championship without him. Last night the most important run of the game was right after Luka was subbed out . The Mavs turned up the pace immediately and THJ had the best play of his playoffs in that stretch.
But thats needed to build the confidence in Luka that his team mates have his back.
That run woke the Mavs up and I got hope up for the Mavs the next two games.

And already Hardaway Sr.,after the first good game in a while by his son, making unnecessary comments that could create some tensions between Luka and Timmy and kill the chemistry of the team ...how dumb can you be ,whinning about playstyle in a win

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas-mavericks-tim-hardaway-creates-big-distraction-wild-luka-doncic-take

I guess we figured out who was that anonymous "veteran assistant coach" source.

[Teffer10]

]If you don't like the way Luka plays or walks or talks or does anything on the basketball court don't watch the games. I actually don't come on here and complain about an NBA player bc I'm not walking in there shoes.

Does reading come hard for you or why do you feel the need to make stuff up? Me and Daoneandonly were just talking and agreeing that Luka needs to get into a better physical shape. Why is that so horrible to talk about? You labeled us as haters and we shouldn't watch... Like what kind of childish nonsense is this?

Did we accidentally jinxed THJ into having a great game? Or did Kidd showed us why he's paid the big bucks?

I just hope he's not his usual self going 0-8 the next game.

Until PJ becomes a consistent 15+ per game scorer, we'll unfortunately need to rely on Hardaway for scoring. I honestly dont know where else the points will come from.

I cringe at the thought, but Hardaway is still an important piece if we plan to move forward in these POs.