RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Raptors (Nov 8)

[Archx]

Post game thread title on Raps board is "Mavs Have No Dogs", couldn't make a better title if I tried, I hope this slap in the face brings them down to earth after the 6-1 Euphoria, regressing to last season ways is really close if you slack off like that...

Kyrie said that Kidd called them out after the game calling them soft

We'll see if that helps next time. But if Lively plays, Kidd will look like a genius again.

[Mavrelous]

Post game thread title on Raps board is "Mavs Have No Dogs", couldn't make a better title if I tried, I hope this slap in the face brings them down to earth after the 6-1 Euphoria, regressing to last season ways is really close if you slack off like that...

Kyrie said that Kidd called them out after the game calling them soft

We'll see if that helps next time. But if Lively plays, Kidd will look like a genius again.

If Kidd did indeed callnthem out that's great news, be proactive for a change.

[BeiBeau]

So here we are... Powell starting C days are coming this year too.

I hope all the ironic posters who wrote bull in those weeks are happy this time too.

It is completely superfluous to talk about tonight's match. We are in a no way out situation.
It would be very easy to say "I told you" but I honestly believe that your silence is a sufficient response. Good job, everyone.

None of us have ever suggest he is a good starter. I’ve personally been calling for lively as the starter since draft night. What we have been saying is that Powell is situationally a good back up.

[Michaellam1987]

Btw the defense tonight was bad but not worse than other games, the big problem was that Toronto taken 100 shoots.

If you have 50 REBs which 15 of those are ORebs then yea it is possible

Lively basically changed the game vs ORL almost by himself in the 3rd Q. Magic couldn't score around the rim so they went to shooting long shots and failed. Watching Powell, Holmes and Maxi trying to defend the paint has almost became a stand up comedy.
Also, DJJ deserves to start and play big minutes each game. Kidd should freaking figure this out. 3blks tonight, 15 pts and the only starter with big +/- plus 11. I don't know what they did with Green but he's lost out there this year, it's like they reprogrammed him and some errors occurred in the process.

Josh is just trying too much. He's very limited player, he's basically good only in hustling and corner 3s. Very low usage player. When he do that, he looks ok, when they want something more from him, he's lost. DJJ is better in everything. Not trading Josh, looks like fatal mistake. Just imagine that we could easily have Ayton instead of him. C position covered for next 10 years.

The only Mavs more lost than Josh is Kidd, the man is totally clueless. DJJ was playing perfectly in Q1 and he was the first player to get changed.

This is because coach Kidd has no ad hoc game plan at all. He can just follow what is normally being done.

[BeiBeau]

THJ and Curry for John Collins.

Dallas gets the better player. Utah moves off about 30M of long term money.

[Bob8]

THJ and Curry for John Collins.

Dallas gets the better player. Utah moves off about 30M of long term money.

I don't believe we want to deal with Utah, Ainge would eat Nico for breakfast and get FRP.

[41Dirk41]

So here we are... Powell starting C days are coming this year too.

I hope all the ironic posters who wrote bull in those weeks are happy this time too.

It is completely superfluous to talk about tonight's match. We are in a no way out situation.
It would be very easy to say "I told you" but I honestly believe that your silence is a sufficient response. Good job, everyone.

None of us have ever suggest he is a good starter. I’ve personally been calling for lively as the starter since draft night. What we have been saying is that Powell is situationally a good back up.

A good backup is useful when the starter is down, Powell is always horrible.

He is the backup of a 19yo kid so he will play a lot of minutes for sure (and we are very lucky that Lively can play from day1), for this his resign was awful just like i said. Even for 1 dollar per year.
Exactly what I predicted happened.

I'm particularly good today, he can be at max the 13th/14th guy on the bench. The Pinson of the bigs.

[41Dirk41]

THJ and Curry for John Collins.

Dallas gets the better player. Utah moves off about 30M of long term money.

I don't believe we want to deal with Utah, Ainge would eat Nico for breakfast and get FRP.

This.

Also Collins value market is increased, it's too late now... Just like Markaneen, Ayton ecc ecc

[Mavrelous]

Kidd playing Maxi when he's like this is unfair to Maxi and the team, let the man rehab and gain his confidence properly

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Mavrelous]

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Lively improved paint defense by ~20%...
With him, above average team, w/o him, far worse than worst team in the league (Indiana).
P.S. teams around Mavs in paint protection are Blazers, Pacers and Jazz, all have good to great rim protectors, nothing saves you from bad perimeter defense.

[BliscoSantos]

Maxi's extension was a terrible decision...they should have waited untill the Summer,but they extended him during the season....then he wasn't available to be traded,his injury problems started to pile up and now he's another Player who has no value to team and who's untradeable

[Bob8]

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Lively improved paint defense by ~20%...
With him, above average team, w/o him, far worse than worst team in the league (Indiana).
P.S. teams around Mavs in paint protection are Blazers, Pacers and Jazz, all have good to great rim protectors, nothing saves you from bad perimeter defense.

I would guess that every team is better in paint protection, when playing with starting C.

[Mavrelous]

I would guess that every team is better in paint protection, when playing with starting C.

Not really...
I don't have the points in the paint, but if you check DRTG and NetRTG
Lively
Myles Turner - same DRTG on/off
Ayton- slightly better impact then Lively defensively, but negative NetRTG due to offense
Walker Kessler- numbers are out of whak horrible ORTG, DRTG and NetRTG

To Kessler and Ayton defense, they are playing w/o a PG...

[Bob8]

I would guess that every team is better in paint protection, when playing with starting C.

Not really...
I don't have the points in the paint, but if you check DRTG and NetRTG
Lively
Myles Turner - same DRTG on/off
Ayton- slightly better impact then Lively defensively, but negative NetRTG due to offense
Walker Kessler- numbers are out of whak horrible ORTG, DRTG and NetRTG

To Kessler and Ayton defense, they are playing w/o a PG...

All those comparisons are very tricky. Lively will always have good on/off defensive numbers because his replacement is Powell. On/off just tells you something about players that replace each other not about different players in different teams. You can't compare those numbers between Lively, Ayton, Turner...

Players in losing teams will always have bad netrtg. Mavs are 6:2, that's why almost everyone in Mavs has positive net rtg.

You're comparing the wrong data.

[Bob8]

I would guess that every team is better in paint protection, when playing with starting C.

Not really...
I don't have the points in the paint, but if you check DRTG and NetRTG
Lively
Myles Turner - same DRTG on/off
Ayton- slightly better impact then Lively defensively, but negative NetRTG due to offense
Walker Kessler- numbers are out of whak horrible ORTG, DRTG and NetRTG

To Kessler and Ayton defense, they are playing w/o a PG...

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-impact?PlayerPosition=C&dir=A&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT

Lively not good.

[daoneandonly]

Maxi's extension was a terrible decision...they should have waited untill the Summer,but they extended him during the season....then he wasn't available to be traded,his injury problems started to pile up and now he's another Player who has no value to team and who's untradeable

No matter who the FO is, this team cant get extensions right

Maxi as you said
Powell they overpaid, then he tore his Achilles soon after
We all know the Bruson one
And now Green is proving to be a mistake

DFS was the only one they seemed to have gotten right, and they had to trade him to get Kyrie

[ejs78]

I would guess that every team is better in paint protection, when playing with starting C.

Not really...
I don't have the points in the paint, but if you check DRTG and NetRTG
Lively
Myles Turner - same DRTG on/off
Ayton- slightly better impact then Lively defensively, but negative NetRTG due to offense
Walker Kessler- numbers are out of whak horrible ORTG, DRTG and NetRTG

To Kessler and Ayton defense, they are playing w/o a PG...

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-impact?PlayerPosition=C&dir=A&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT

Lively not good.

This such a small data sample at this point.

[Bob8]

Not really...
I don't have the points in the paint, but if you check DRTG and NetRTG
Lively
Myles Turner - same DRTG on/off
Ayton- slightly better impact then Lively defensively, but negative NetRTG due to offense
Walker Kessler- numbers are out of whak horrible ORTG, DRTG and NetRTG

To Kessler and Ayton defense, they are playing w/o a PG...

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-impact?PlayerPosition=C&dir=A&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT

Lively not good.

This such a small data sample at this point.

I agree, but the same goes for other data that might show Lively in good light.

I just pasted this data, because it's still much more relevant data for comparison than on/off, netrtg...which are useful only for comparison between players of 1 team.

[ejs78]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-impact?PlayerPosition=C&dir=A&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT

Lively not good.

This such a small data sample at this point.

I agree, but the same goes for other data that might show Lively in good light.

I just pasted this data, because it's still much more relevant data for comparison than on/off, netrtg...which are useful only for comparison between players of 1 team.

Might be more relevant around the 15-20 game marker. Lively is better than Mark Williams, Lopez, OO, and Robinson at this point....

No one on this team can keep their man in front of them so its kinda a big ask for a 19year to carry the load on the defensive end.

[Bob8]

This such a small data sample at this point.

I agree, but the same goes for other data that might show Lively in good light.

I just pasted this data, because it's still much more relevant data for comparison than on/off, netrtg...which are useful only for comparison between players of 1 team.

Might be more relevant around the 15-20 game marker. Lively is better than Mark Williams, Lopez, OO, and Robinson at this point....

No one on this team can keep their man in front of them so its kinda a big ask for a 19year to carry the load on the defensive end.

Yes true. DFG% is tracking the nearest defender, so it's basically relevant only for shots very near to the basket and players in teams with better team D will be always favoured. Lively in very bad situation here. On the other hand Lively' biggest problem is man on man D, mostly because he must gain a lot of mass, so he has very big room for improvement here.