RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Celtics (Mond., 830PMEST)

[Dirk]

Ugh, Luka has not been looking great. Probably mirroring other seasons when there's a dip. Lost 3 straight games with him playing and they were tough games to watch, despite the numbers. Obviously, I am not saying he is the guy to blame for it all... just saying that he hasn't been as sharp and focused as he needs to be and has been.

[Archx]

Ugh, Luka has not been looking great. Probably mirroring other seasons when there's a dip. Obviously, I am not saying he is the guy to blame for it all... just saying that he hasn't been as sharp and focused as he needs to be and has been.

He can 100% be blamed for this loss. If he only shot in his averages or slightly above, this could have been a nice win.

Lost 3 straight games with him playing and they were tough games to watch, despite the numbers.

My vote goes to Exum for being the MVP of the team

[Dirk]

It's annoying to see Luka/Mavs get caught up with complaining to the refs and giving up points because of it, but it really did feel like for some reason those refs didn't want to call the same fouls on the Mavs as they did on the Celtics mega superstar players... felt like the Celtics were able to play in ways that usually arent allowed by the refs.

This also looked like a clear foul to me.

Ugh, Luka has not been looking great. Probably mirroring other seasons when there's a dip. Obviously, I am not saying he is the guy to blame for it all... just saying that he hasn't been as sharp and focused as he needs to be and has been.

He can 100% be blamed for this loss. If he only shot in his averages or slightly above, this could have been a nice win.

Lost 3 straight games with him playing and they were tough games to watch, despite the numbers.

My vote goes to Exum for being the MVP of the team

A mystery injury for that man. Not MVP, but he's definitely a glue guy.

Grant Williams is the one guy who is really hurting. But at least he knows he has been sucking badly. https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-grant-williams-gives-brutally-honest-evaluation-of-his-season

“That shot is going to turn back around,” Williams said. “That’s something that I’ve always believed because, as a shooter. You can’t come in nightly and daily and 90 percent or 85 percent from the 3 at practice and not see it translate. For me, that’s why I don’t worry about the offensive side of the ball. It’s a matter of being that defender, being that guy that they’ve asked me to be, and really confident in that role.”

[ozwizard8]

Its just Luka-Kyrie-THJ for $100mm/year does not make sense. Even if you bring Phil Jackson, Popovich, Kerr, Mike Krzyzewski together, they are not going to make it work.

I dont necessarily like Kidd, maybe a new coach would be brave enough to say Luka/thj/kyrie is not working so trade one or two of them that are not names Luka.

You maybe right, and Luka and Kyrie don't fit, or Kidd is too limited to utilize both of them together, Luka alone team looks great, Kyrie alone team looks good, when they are both together, it's hit and miss, some good performances and some horrible ones.

It's confusing and frustrating. How did Luka and Brunson work so well with Kidd as coach then? Is Brunson just a winner and Ky a lower?

Watching this team is depressing. And I was giving Grant Williams more slack than anyone, done with him

Against good defensive teams Kyrie is no longer the young Kyrie. Against Celtics he was shy because Holiday and D.White was not letting him get easy buckets. Kyrie switching to Tatum-Brown-Horford did not work him either due to blocking threat. Its not about Kidd because you can see this happened in playoffs to the Kyrie in his last years with Nets.

Brunson was great at taking possessions where Mavs offense does not work and Luka was exhausted. In that sense Brunson was like Exum, a real PG who can control the tempo of the offense and make right decisions.
Harden worked with cp3-gordon but not kyrie as well.

Kyrie should be an all-star because even Allen Iverson in his last years was a joy to watch on Allstar games. But Kyrie is nowhere near a top guard or a top player in the NBA anymore. He cannot create efficient offense when things matter. He cant control the tempo of the game.

When Kyrie is playing he is getting easiest defensive backcourt matchup, then Luka needs to defend a better PG-SG-SF. It doesn't worth it to have Kyrie on court for the given salary and so-called star status.

[ozwizard8]

Its just Luka-Kyrie-THJ for $100mm/year does not make sense. Even if you bring Phil Jackson, Popovich, Kerr, Mike Krzyzewski together, they are not going to make it work.

I dont necessarily like Kidd, maybe a new coach would be brave enough to say Luka/thj/kyrie is not working so trade one or two of them that are not names Luka.

You maybe right, and Luka and Kyrie don't fit, or Kidd is too limited to utilize both of them together, Luka alone team looks great, Kyrie alone team looks good, when they are both together, it's hit and miss, some good performances and some horrible ones.

Look at Harden.
He sucked with Kyrie/Durant. It didn't work well with Embiid/Tobias.
It worked with good defenders around him. Tucker-Capela in Houston, Kawhi-PG in LAC.

Dirk won with defenders around too.

[Mavrelous]

Its just Luka-Kyrie-THJ for $100mm/year does not make sense. Even if you bring Phil Jackson, Popovich, Kerr, Mike Krzyzewski together, they are not going to make it work.

I dont necessarily like Kidd, maybe a new coach would be brave enough to say Luka/thj/kyrie is not working so trade one or two of them that are not names Luka.

You maybe right, and Luka and Kyrie don't fit, or Kidd is too limited to utilize both of them together, Luka alone team looks great, Kyrie alone team looks good, when they are both together, it's hit and miss, some good performances and some horrible ones.

Look at Harden.
He sucked with Kyrie/Durant. It didn't work well with Embiid/Tobias.
It worked with good defenders around him. Tucker-Capela in Houston, Kawhi-PG in LAC.

Dirk won with defenders around too.

That Nets team was very good, Kyrie just got injured, and I agree, Luka needs a lot of defense around him, but Luka needs good guard next to him, last year Luka broke down because of the load, we all watched, it was painful.

[Mavrelous]

Tim Cato being blunt and truthful

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[ozwizard8]

That Nets team was very good, Kyrie just got injured, and I agree, Luka needs a lot of defense around him, but Luka needs good guard next to him, last year Luka broke down because of the load, we all watched, it was painful.

Luka is having some bad 5-6 game stretches every season. The last season failed because of Kyrie trade. Him on the court was not the problem but absence of Dinwiddie-DFS was the problem.

Kyrie missed some games this season and the team did not look terribly missing him. When Luka or Lively is out we miss those two badly. Luka needs another guard with him but even Exum at $3m/year was able to hold that role. Brunson was doing better than Kyrie. As a bench scorer/creator Dinwiddie was decent.

Having Kyrie is a luxury that Mavs cannot afford. It's like Mavs house does not have a roof and we're buying a used Porsche.
For pg/sg role go buy a Toyota and spend the money to fix the roof.

[Mavrelous]

That Nets team was very good, Kyrie just got injured, and I agree, Luka needs a lot of defense around him, but Luka needs good guard next to him, last year Luka broke down because of the load, we all watched, it was painful.

Luka is having some bad 5-6 game stretches every season. The last season failed because of Kyrie trade. Him on the court was not the problem but absence of Dinwiddie-DFS was the problem.

Kyrie missed some games this season and the team did not look terribly missing him. When Luka or Lively is out we miss those two badly. Luka needs another guard with him but even Exum at $3m/year was able to hold that role. Brunson was doing better than Kyrie. As a bench scorer/creator Dinwiddie was decent.

Having Kyrie is a luxury that Mavs cannot afford. It's like Mavs house does not have a roof and we're buying a used Porsche.
For pg/sg role go buy a Toyota and spend the money to fix the roof.

Luka went down against the Pelicans late in the 3rd, Mavs were up 30, they ended up needing officiating mistake to win the game.
Mavs were losing to the worst team in the league when he missed time (Rockets), and even lost some embarassing games with him.
I'm not buying the Mavs can do with Luka alone, I've watched it with my own eyes, you maybe right and Kyrie was a bad choice, I tend to think not, but results speak for themselves, it's not working well, but I do know, Luka alone is a recipe for disaster.

[ozwizard8]

Ugh, Luka has not been looking great. Probably mirroring other seasons when there's a dip. Lost 3 straight games with him playing and they were tough games to watch, despite the numbers. Obviously, I am not saying he is the guy to blame for it all... just saying that he hasn't been as sharp and focused as he needs to be and has been.

This is how Luka plays every season. His playing style requires high load similar to Harden with Rockets. The good part that Harden was having 4-months off but Luka also plays in summer with Slovenia. Some people attacked me for calling out Luka and saying he should skip the national team for some years. Dirk-Pau-Tony Parker did not go every year. Jokic skipping it frequently as well.

All in all, Luka is still a great player even if he plays badly a couple of weeks in the season. A slow start, a bad week in January, and another bad week with a lingering injury sometimes. On a personal level, hope he would get better but for Mavs team this is expected. They need better roster around him. Take the frustration out from him.
Look at how easy things are for Tatum, Brown, Embiid. Their GMs are putting everything together.

[joesha1698]

It took Dirk years to win a championship and he won once Nash left. Does that mean Nash was chopped liver? Of course not. It takes talent, chemistry, and discipline to win championships. The Mavs have lost to worst teams than the Celtics this year. And the Celtics are arguably the best team in the NBA. They have 3 allstars in their starting lineup and on a given night you can make a case for Porzingis playing like an allstar.

Talent issue: We need another 3 or 4 that can really play defense and is long. Back up center. The Golden state warriors proved when you have an above average defenders you can slow down Jaylen and Tatum. The Miami Heat showed the same. The warriors have Klay, Wiggins, and Dryamon. We have Josh Green, Luka, Grant Williams, with Jones Jr being the one exception that I trust as a good defender here and there. We have to get better at the 3 and 4 and and bigger.

Chemistry Issue: Kyrie is an elite guard, let him play the position and push the pace. Move Luka to SG/SF. When needed we can do Luka Ball but we need to move away from that all game long. Many Mavs posters have pointed out that Jalen Brunson left for this very reason. He knew he would not be able to really handle the ball with Luka constantly controlling the ball and the pace of the game. Additionally, we need help rebounding, how is Luka gonna do that taking step back 3s all game? He had 18 rebounds in this game. I would love for him to play closer to the basket more often.

Discipline: Luka has to stop crying and be a leader. He has been doing a better job of supporting his teammates and allowing others to touch the ball but it has to continue and he has to man up with the whining and not getting back on defense. The organization (coaches) at this point are afraid to really discipline him for this because their afraid he will leave. However, at this point, someone needs to hold him accountable. We have to upgrade the overall talent and IQ of this team. We have more than a few players who are very inconsistent (IQ wise and play) and in the long run that inconsistency shows.

Lineup I would like to see:
Kyrie at PG (push the pace and get the ball where it needs to go)
Luka at SG (post, pick and roll, luka ball (where he controls the pace late in quarters)
Upgrade at SF (someone in the Wiggins frame)
Derrick Jones at PF (unless we can upgrade / send him to bench if we do)
Lively with a solid backup center that could possibly start at any time. (cannot depend on 19-21 year old)

If we can accomplish a lineup like this and make the above changes, I think this team has a chance to beat anyone but we have to heavily invest in 3 and 4 positions players that can really play defense.

[ozwizard8]

One positive of Luka-Exum duo against Kyrie-Luka duo is defensive matchups.

With Kyrie, Mavs team gives him the easiest to defend player. We actively try to avoid Tatum-Brown to switch on Kyrie because Kyrie is so small and bad defender.

When Exum pairs the Luka, we give Luka more leeway. Exum is a plus defender that helps with steals and help defense as well. He is not tall but has the wingspan and athleticism. Also defensive discipline and focus is there for him.

On offense Exum has PG skill to dictate the tempo much better than Kyrie who plays like a SG.

[ozwizard8]

That Nets team was very good, Kyrie just got injured, and I agree, Luka needs a lot of defense around him, but Luka needs good guard next to him, last year Luka broke down because of the load, we all watched, it was painful.

Luka is having some bad 5-6 game stretches every season. The last season failed because of Kyrie trade. Him on the court was not the problem but absence of Dinwiddie-DFS was the problem.

Kyrie missed some games this season and the team did not look terribly missing him. When Luka or Lively is out we miss those two badly. Luka needs another guard with him but even Exum at $3m/year was able to hold that role. Brunson was doing better than Kyrie. As a bench scorer/creator Dinwiddie was decent.

Having Kyrie is a luxury that Mavs cannot afford. It's like Mavs house does not have a roof and we're buying a used Porsche.
For pg/sg role go buy a Toyota and spend the money to fix the roof.

Luka went down against the Pelicans late in the 3rd, Mavs were up 30, they ended up needing officiating mistake to win the game.
Mavs were losing to the worst team in the league when he missed time (Rockets), and even lost some embarassing games with him.
I'm not buying the Mavs can do with Luka alone, I've watched it with my own eyes, you maybe right and Kyrie was a bad choice, I tend to think not, but results speak for themselves, it's not working well, but I do know, Luka alone is a recipe for disaster.

Luka alone offense can work at some level only if Mavs have solid defense. If you play THJ or Bullock at PF, you cannot expect Luka offense to be enough to overcome defensive deficit.

I think Luka-alone is a misleading naming. Would you consider Luka-Exum starting backcourt with Dinwiddie-THJ bench as alone?

Teams should have some players with PG skills to dictate tempo, SG to shoot, PG/SG slashers to penetrate. My point is how much you should invest for those roles.

A Luka team should not invest all for the offensive backcourt. $100m for Luka/Kyrie/THJ is too much.

Its like paying max contract to Horford while having Embiid. What is the point? That 76ers team also had 6′10″ Simmons playing PG.
Embiid is good, Horford was kinda washed but still a good player. Together it was not working.
Nets got Kyrie-Harden-Durant and I dont think it ever looked like working.

[Mavrelous]

Luka alone offense can work at some level only if Mavs have solid defense. If you play THJ or Bullock at PF, you cannot expect Luka offense to be enough to overcome defensive deficit.

I think Luka-alone is a misleading naming. Would you consider Luka-Exum starting backcourt with Dinwiddie-THJ bench as alone?

Teams should have some players with PG skills to dictate tempo, SG to shoot, PG/SG slashers to penetrate. My point is how much you should invest for those roles.

A Luka team should not invest all for the offensive backcourt. $100m for Luka/Kyrie/THJ is too much.

Its like paying max contract to Horford while having Embiid. What is the point? That 76ers team also had 6′10″ Simmons playing PG.
Embiid is good, Horford was kinda washed but still a good player. Together it was not working.
Nets got Kyrie-Harden-Durant and I dont think it ever looked like working.

Exum as a 3rd guard next to Dinwiddie is a good option to explore, which the Mavs needed to explore last year, the fact they went into the season with 2 players that can handle the ball was irresponsible, stupid and baffling, we saw that Luka with Exum and Lively and role players was a decent enough team.
Luka was playing with DFS at PF before the trade, Mavs were also not good.
I still think Kidd is underutilizing his personnel offensively, and his good quality as a defensive coach isn't being translated right now.
I also think that hiring a player coach with Luka and Kyrie was a mistake, they need a hardass to ride them.

[41Dirk41]

I think it was Kyrie fault if the ozone hole is bigger every year... Damn.

[ozwizard8]

Luka alone offense can work at some level only if Mavs have solid defense. If you play THJ or Bullock at PF, you cannot expect Luka offense to be enough to overcome defensive deficit.

I think Luka-alone is a misleading naming. Would you consider Luka-Exum starting backcourt with Dinwiddie-THJ bench as alone?

Teams should have some players with PG skills to dictate tempo, SG to shoot, PG/SG slashers to penetrate. My point is how much you should invest for those roles.

A Luka team should not invest all for the offensive backcourt. $100m for Luka/Kyrie/THJ is too much.

Its like paying max contract to Horford while having Embiid. What is the point? That 76ers team also had 6′10″ Simmons playing PG.
Embiid is good, Horford was kinda washed but still a good player. Together it was not working.
Nets got Kyrie-Harden-Durant and I dont think it ever looked like working.

Exum as a 3rd guard next to Dinwiddie is a good option to explore, which the Mavs needed to explore last year, the fact they went into the season with 2 players that can handle the ball was irresponsible, stupid and baffling, we saw that Luka with Exum and Lively and role players was a decent enough team.
Luka was playing with DFS at PF before the trade, Mavs were also not good.
I still think Kidd is underutilizing his personnel offensively, and his good quality as a defensive coach isn't being translated right now.
I also think that hiring a player coach with Luka and Kyrie was a mistake, they need a hardass to ride them.

Kyrie with a hard-ass coach?

Last year without Kyrie this team was doing pretty much same and we did not have Lively.
You subbed Dinwiddie-DFS out for Kyrie which made us worse. Even though we add Exum-Lively we are not better than a year ago.

Budenhoser might be a good coach to boost regular season wins but he'd probably need an offseason to show his effect on the team. If you ask me Cuban has more chance to hire an average coach than a top one.

I do not think Mavs have much chance in playoffs with the current roster though. Maybe adding one of Grant/Kuzma/DFS and Grant Williams turning into a prime PJ Tucker can change things. We'd also need Kleber to get back to his prime days as a small ball 5.

[ozwizard8]

I think it was Kyrie fault if the ozone hole is bigger every year... Damn.

Please stop crying about Kyrie failing in his last 7 years with 3 teams. Go seek counseling.
Failing with Tatum-Brown-Horford, then failing with Harden-Durant, and now Luka is not a good look.
All those stars are looking better after leaving Kyrie. All those teams and their fanbases are happier too.

[41Dirk41]

I think it was Kyrie fault if the ozone hole is bigger every year... Damn.

Please stop crying about Kyrie failing in his last 7 years with 3 teams. Go seek counseling.
Failing with Tatum-Brown-Horford, then failing with Harden-Durant, and now Luka is not a good look.
All those stars are looking better after leaving Kyrie. All those teams and their fanbases are happier too.

Look, the only one who's been crying for 1 year is you

Go seek an asylum, maybe can help you... But i doubt. No hope.

[ozwizard8]

I think it was Kyrie fault if the ozone hole is bigger every year... Damn.

Please stop crying about Kyrie failing in his last 7 years with 3 teams. Go seek counseling.
Failing with Tatum-Brown-Horford, then failing with Harden-Durant, and now Luka is not a good look.
All those stars are looking better after leaving Kyrie. All those teams and their fanbases are happier too.

Look, the only one who's been crying for 1 year is you

Go seek an asylum, maybe can help you... But i doubt. No hope.

Sorry for you.
Go talk with any of Celtics, Nets fanbases and see how they think about Kyrie

[41Dirk41]

Please stop crying about Kyrie failing in his last 7 years with 3 teams. Go seek counseling.
Failing with Tatum-Brown-Horford, then failing with Harden-Durant, and now Luka is not a good look.
All those stars are looking better after leaving Kyrie. All those teams and their fanbases are happier too.

Look, the only one who's been crying for 1 year is you

Go seek an asylum, maybe can help you... But i doubt. No hope.

Sorry for you.
Go talk with any of Celtics, Nets fanbases and see how they think about Kyrie

Go talk you to those fanbases... And stay there. Hater.