Draft lottery Thread - Mavs #10

[HMFFL]

There’s no way we’re going into the season with a front court of
Williams (most likely) / maxi
Holmes / Lively / powell (most likely)
The number 1 issue they planned to address this year is rim protection. Holmes isn’t that and lively, while good, isn’t ready to be a starter. There MUST be a veteran coming at the center position. Who that is, I don’t know.

Brook Lopez is intriguing if he's an option for us.

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[BeiBeau]

There’s no way we’re going into the season with a front court of
Williams (most likely) / maxi
Holmes / Lively / powell (most likely)
The number 1 issue they planned to address this year is rim protection. Holmes isn’t that and lively, while good, isn’t ready to be a starter. There MUST be a veteran coming at the center position. Who that is, I don’t know.

Brook Lopez is intriguing if he's an option for us.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I think the difficulty is Dallas wants 2 more players. We want the big wing and a center who can start until Lively is ready. But we can realistically only get 1 of them. We have part of the MLE or we can S&T but both would hard cap us so we can’t get anything beyond that unless we trade players and we just don’t have the most attractive vets.

I suggest a kinda bad trade on the T&T board earlier trying to solve this very issue.

[Bob8]

Trading 10 for Capela last night would’ve been something the 2000s Cavs would’ve done during Lebron 1st stint. Just using all assets to add vet after vet after vet. The problem with adding a 29 y/o is if you don’t win now he is only going to get worse.

I disagree with the premise that Dallas is the same next year with just Holmes swapped for Wood. If Lively is 75% of the defender we think he is he will still be the best defender on the team as a rookie. He will play. Idk if he is starting opening night but he easily could play 20 minutes and we let Maxi close games. OMax is about to be 21. He is not a 19 year old. If OMax just comes in and shoots open 3s and can hit 34-36% of those he will also be a rotation player early.

Hope that both rookies can contribute immediately is not exactly realistic situation. In best case scenario they can, but the most realistic scenario is that they won't. Both players are just projects. And if they won't, we have, at the moment, the same problems like last year. It will be crucial that they address problem with wings in offseason and I'm not exactly confident that rim protection will be better next year either.

I think there is a big difference between prospect and project. A project is a player with insane potential but doesn’t really have any NBA ready skills yet. Giannis was a project, Bilal Coulibaly is a project. DL2 and OMax both have NBA ready skills. Expecting them to contribute right away is not the same as thinking that they can. Particularly Lively. Michael Finley said that they were impressed with his defensive reads and knowledge. If he gets the learning aspects down. We also need to know his weight, a lot of reports are saying he’s 230-235. If that’s true he can easily be 240 by opening day. He can come in a block shots, finish lobs, and rebound the ball just fine because those are his strengths and those skills translate very well. We have seen a ton of young bigs come in and make impact right away. Mobley, Kessler, JJJ, Duren, Williams, Robinson are all in just the last 5 years. Now granted some of them were playing garbage ball on bad teams but Mobley made the playoffs playing 33 minutes and Kessler could’ve made the playoffs with Utah but they decided to tank. I think Lively’s goal should be to be starting by January-February.

For O-Max it’s more difficult. The win last night was Dallas got the best on ball defender and the best interior defender in college basketball. However, Lively’s skills will be easier to translate because the offensive side of the ball will be such a cake walk. Finish lobs and set screens that’s it. For O-Max it will come down to can he hit his 3s. If he can he can play. He for sure has the defensive tools and skills, I would say there is a very good chance he is the best on ball defender Dallas has to start the season. He’s also 21 and has a NBA body so the weight won’t be an issue their.

You're saying that a player, who has played 20 minutes in a college, was total non factor in offense there and not particularly good rebounder, will become important piece of playoffs Nba team overnight? Mobley and Kessler numbers were much more impressive in their last year in college. The problem I see is that Mavs are in situation that won't allow for experimentation with rookies. Do you really believe that all young players, ( Green, Hardy, Lively and O-Max) will get big minutes? Not very likely. Mavs need to get some already rotational Nba players in offseason and develop rookies by the way.

[41Dirk41]

Agree.

I don't see Omax and Lively crack the rotation until game 20/25... And if happen then it's a miracle.

Big need time, Lively is too raw.
Omax is a little bit ready because 3 years in college and i hope at the end of the season he will be a rotations piece.

[BeiBeau]

Hope that both rookies can contribute immediately is not exactly realistic situation. In best case scenario they can, but the most realistic scenario is that they won't. Both players are just projects. And if they won't, we have, at the moment, the same problems like last year. It will be crucial that they address problem with wings in offseason and I'm not exactly confident that rim protection will be better next year either.

I think there is a big difference between prospect and project. A project is a player with insane potential but doesn’t really have any NBA ready skills yet. Giannis was a project, Bilal Coulibaly is a project. DL2 and OMax both have NBA ready skills. Expecting them to contribute right away is not the same as thinking that they can. Particularly Lively. Michael Finley said that they were impressed with his defensive reads and knowledge. If he gets the learning aspects down. We also need to know his weight, a lot of reports are saying he’s 230-235. If that’s true he can easily be 240 by opening day. He can come in a block shots, finish lobs, and rebound the ball just fine because those are his strengths and those skills translate very well. We have seen a ton of young bigs come in and make impact right away. Mobley, Kessler, JJJ, Duren, Williams, Robinson are all in just the last 5 years. Now granted some of them were playing garbage ball on bad teams but Mobley made the playoffs playing 33 minutes and Kessler could’ve made the playoffs with Utah but they decided to tank. I think Lively’s goal should be to be starting by January-February.

For O-Max it’s more difficult. The win last night was Dallas got the best on ball defender and the best interior defender in college basketball. However, Lively’s skills will be easier to translate because the offensive side of the ball will be such a cake walk. Finish lobs and set screens that’s it. For O-Max it will come down to can he hit his 3s. If he can he can play. He for sure has the defensive tools and skills, I would say there is a very good chance he is the best on ball defender Dallas has to start the season. He’s also 21 and has a NBA body so the weight won’t be an issue their.

You're saying that a player, who has played 20 minutes in a college, was total non factor in offense there and not particularly good rebounder, will become important piece of playoffs Nba team overnight? Mobley and Kessler numbers were much more impressive in their last year in college. The problem I see is that Mavs are in situation that won't allow for experimentation with rookies. Do you really believe that all young players, ( Green, Hardy, Lively and O-Max) will get big minutes? Not very likely. Mavs need to get some already rotational Nba players in offseason and develop rookies by the way.

1. College stats are just not a good argument they’re always **** up. His per 40 minutes stats are on par with all of the other young centers I mention above. You have the watch the games. Lively came on slow because of an injury. But in the last 8 weeks of the season he was an absolute menace on the defensive end. His rebounding is fine, he played with another 7 footer so realistically he was getting less because Filipowski was grabbing them as well. Even still his rebounding percentages were fine. Offensively shouldn’t be an issue. Duke did not have a point guard Roach is a combo guard scorer who averaged 3 assists per game. Lively is a good lob finisher. On a team where he has Luka and Kyrie to get him the ball in his spots he will not struggle on offense.

2. No I don’t think it’s going to happen over night. I do think he could be a starter this season though it took Kessler, Williams, and Duren until January last year to be ready to start. Because he is a very good Rim protector and Powell and Holmes are not I think he can have a niche to start. Maxi is gonna close, I think Holmes starts, and Powell brings the energy, but Lively is the rim protector.

3. I think Green, Hardy, and Lively will get spots in the rotation yes. Putting Green, Hardy, Lively, OMax in the same category is very disingenuous. Green played 30 minutes a game after DFS was traded, he’s already a borderline starter. Hardy proved that he can play in meaning full games at the end of last year, he played 20 minutes after the Kyrie trade and already broke into the rotation. For Lively I see 15 minutes to start and then Dallas will have to adjust based on how it goes. I think O-Max has a chance because he is a special defender but that will probably depend on his 3pt shot I’m not willing to commit to him getting rotation minutes as a rookie but I could see him getting minutes early in his career.

4. I agree that I want Dallas to get more vets. I’m not particularly happy that Lively’s stop gap is Holmes because I think Dallas would be better served with a Lopez type player however if we get OMax I’m fine with Holmes. Dallas needs to hit on the MLE or S&T that they get. I’m of the mind set that they need both a MLE or S&T plus a trade for another vet but I just don’t think it’s feasible so I think Holmes/Lively/Powell/Maxi is what we got.

[41Dirk41]

I'm often dubtful about young C, the bust is around the corner so i think OMax will have more chance to cracks the rotations than DL2.

Happy to be wrong obviously...

[BeiBeau]

I'm often dubtful about young C, the bust is around the corner so i think OMax will have more chance to cracks the rotations than DL2.

Happy to be wrong obviously...

See I tend to believe young guards bust WAY more than young bigs.

[BeiBeau]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

[41Dirk41]

I'm often dubtful about young C, the bust is around the corner so i think OMax will have more chance to cracks the rotations than DL2.

Happy to be wrong obviously...

See I tend to believe young guards bust WAY more than young bigs.

Probably just because there are more guards than bigs in every draft... I don't think the % is in your way...

[41Dirk41]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

[Bob8]

I'm often dubtful about young C, the bust is around the corner so i think OMax will have more chance to cracks the rotations than DL2.

Happy to be wrong obviously...

See I tend to believe young guards bust WAY more than young bigs.

However you look, majority of 10-30 picks won't be in Nba in 5 years time and only few will be starters. Odds are not exactly in Mavs favour.

[BliscoSantos]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

[arkuo]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

Nico didn't finish his sentence. "This is just the beginning... of a 3-year rebuild plan". LOL

[HMFFL]

There’s no way we’re going into the season with a front court of
Williams (most likely) / maxi
Holmes / Lively / powell (most likely)
The number 1 issue they planned to address this year is rim protection. Holmes isn’t that and lively, while good, isn’t ready to be a starter. There MUST be a veteran coming at the center position. Who that is, I don’t know.

Brook Lopez is intriguing if he's an option for us.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I think the difficulty is Dallas wants 2 more players. We want the big wing and a center who can start until Lively is ready. But we can realistically only get 1 of them. We have part of the MLE or we can S&T but both would hard cap us so we can’t get anything beyond that unless we trade players and we just don’t have the most attractive vets.

I suggest a kinda bad trade on the T&T board earlier trying to solve this very issue.

We need to see how Lively's game translates to the NBA. The main hustle I expect is him getting into foul trouble which is typical for s big man that's a rookie.

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[Mr B]

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

Nico didn't finish his sentence. "This is just the beginning... of a 3-year rebuild plan". LOL

I think anyone that expects the Mavs to be a championship contender after this off season is a bit delusional. This is not going to be an easy fix and it is going to take time. Based on how last season ended and the amount of change that is going on I think a realistic goal for this team this season is just to make the playoffs. Then next off season make more additions and then MAYBE advance to or beyond the 2nd round. With 3 years of these young guys (Luka included) playing together and developing by year 3 they should be able to be a legit title contender. It definitely won’t be this season though and fans shouldn’t expect that.

[Darren]

Defense is not merely measured by statistics. Putting Lively on Chet, VW and Lofton, then you know what to expect. I wonder if Green, Hardy and Ntilikina playing in SL.

[Darren]

The same could be true to OMax. Until you see OMax guarding Miller, Henderson, AT and so on, you know what to expect

[41Dirk41]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

That's true...

[arkuo]

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

Nico didn't finish his sentence. "This is just the beginning... of a 3-year rebuild plan". LOL

I think anyone that expects the Mavs to be a championship contender after this off season is a bit delusional. This is not going to be an easy fix and it is going to take time. Based on how last season ended and the amount of change that is going on I think a realistic goal for this team this season is just to make the playoffs. Then next off season make more additions and then MAYBE advance to or beyond the 2nd round. With 3 years of these young guys (Luka included) playing together and developing by year 3 they should be able to be a legit title contender. It definitely won’t be this season though and fans shouldn’t expect that.

Agreed. It took Tyson 10 seasons from being drafted from high school to figuring it out in Dallas. DFS took a while to develop his three point shot too. OMP should take the same amount of runway IMO.

[BeiBeau]

Irving on the max would only leave us with about 7.5 million of the MLE. Which means we lose out to all the other teams with the MLE but we can beat the teams with the TMLE. With that in mind I think a realistic finish to this offseason that I’d be okay with is, 1. Resign Kyrie, 2. Sign Keita Bates Diop or Jalen McDaniels with the MLE money.

A S&T is not out of the question for a dude like Grant Williams but who would it cost, Bullock? I wouldn’t send Hardy or Green.

If Dallas ended with:

Luka/ Hardy
Kyrie/ THJ
Bullock/ Green/ OMax
Bates Diop or McDaniels/ Kleber/ OMax
Holmes/ Lively/ Powell/ McGee

I think it’d be okay. But after how well we did at the draft I think Nico can do better.

Not bad... But if Green will not become a solid starter this season it's a disaster.
This must be his year.

The problem with Green is he's too small for SF(he's got the size of a SG) and Hardy is more of a SG than PG...if Mavs didn't have Kyrie Cason Wallace would be perfect for this team..Mavs did ok,drafted for their need but you can't expect this team to do much better than last season...rookies rarely help to win games..Mav still have a hole at the PF and SF position...Nico said this is Just the begining,we'll see what they do next... they're obviously waiting on Kyrie and even if he resigns could opt to fully reload in the next offseason

This is modern day position less basketball. Hardy is going to get 0 minutes at the 1 next year when Luka and Kyrie are healthy. And even still Josh was the 3rd ball handler so he’d get PG minutes over Hardy.

Josh being a SG or SF is unimportant. He’s an athletic wing who shoots well and guards small wings and guards the best. To counter that Dallas needs a wing player who guards big wings and forwards best.

Also remember that offensively Luka plays the 1 but defensively he play more of a 4.