Dallas Mavericks 2023/24 Trade thread

[Mavrelous]

Mavs had to get younger, all of their players last year, except Luka, Green, Hardy and Frank were 30+ and the team was horrible.
Given the amount of assets they had to work with, that's as good as it gets, they added Grant, OMax and Lively, they upgraded Frank to Exum, Pinson to DJJ and added Curry, Hawks were asking for the moon for Capella.
Next year, Mavs will have 25 1st, 27 1st, 26 and 28 swap, they can use them in a S&T for OG and a center to fill out the rotation.
The seeds for the holes in this roster we planted in 21 and 22 offseasons, not this one.

[Teffer10]

With good starting C, Luka having MVP season and Kyrie playing his best basketball anything would be possible. They have pretty good depth too. Waiting Lively to develop is just suicidal. Kyrie will be too old and Luka too nervous.

I agree with some of your points. What's your suggestion to improve the C position? The one I hear here the most is to trade THJ + Green + picks (maybe?) for Capela. Do that and now all of a sudden you're totally relying on Omax and DJJ to carry our wing defense. Not to mention we actually need THJ and Green's creation and scoring from the wings. We solve 1 hole, open another.

We wait one season and now THJ and Holmes are expiring and easier to trade for upgrades. We'll also be able to trade more draft picks. Hopefully some of our young guys improve enough to be playoff rotation players. Just more options then the limited ones we have now.

Note, I wanna compete for a championship this year too. But I just think there's a lot of logic to not rushing things like we've done since we drafted Luka. Rushing is what got us into the mess of a roster and lack of assets that we've had the last few years.

I'm almost in the mindset of staying pat with what we have to see if Kyrie and Luka are going to mesh and to also see if Kyrie doesn't revert back to a nutcase. We are pretty much stuck with Kyrie no matter what, but I'd hate to give up young and future assets to bring in a role player if our 2 stars don't develop any chemistry.

If it looks like Kyrie and Luka are bonding well on the court, and Kyrie keeps his head on straight, then we might consider parting with some of our youth and draft picks to find pieces that fit with them.
I'm certainly not convinced there will ever be good chemistry between those two, but maybe Kidd can make it happen.

[Bob8]

With good starting C, Luka having MVP season and Kyrie playing his best basketball anything would be possible. They have pretty good depth too. Waiting Lively to develop is just suicidal. Kyrie will be too old and Luka too nervous.

I agree with some of your points. What's your suggestion to improve the C position? The one I hear here the most is to trade THJ + Green + picks (maybe?) for Capela. Do that and now all of a sudden you're totally relying on Omax and DJJ to carry our wing defense. Not to mention we actually need THJ and Green's creation and scoring from the wings. We solve 1 hole, open another.

We wait one season and now THJ and Holmes are expiring and easier to trade for upgrades. We'll also be able to trade more draft picks. Hopefully some of our young guys improve enough to be playoff rotation players. Just more options then the limited ones we have now.

Note, I wanna compete for a championship this year too. But I just think there's a lot of logic to not rushing things like we've done since we drafted Luka. Rushing is what got us into the mess of a roster and lack of assets that we've had the last few years.

My point is pretty simple, we're not winning anything with Lively on C in next 3 years. And I doubt very much Kyrie and Luka can wait longer.

I really can't understand why they drafted Lively. They could easily get Ayton, if they were really interested, and use 12th pick for trading for some wing defender.

Nobody will openly admit, but truth is, Mavs are totally dependent on very unlikely scenario that rookies will be able to help from day 1. If they can't, which is far more realistic scenario, Mavs are not that much better than last year.

[Teffer10]

With good starting C, Luka having MVP season and Kyrie playing his best basketball anything would be possible. They have pretty good depth too. Waiting Lively to develop is just suicidal. Kyrie will be too old and Luka too nervous.

I agree with some of your points. What's your suggestion to improve the C position? The one I hear here the most is to trade THJ + Green + picks (maybe?) for Capela. Do that and now all of a sudden you're totally relying on Omax and DJJ to carry our wing defense. Not to mention we actually need THJ and Green's creation and scoring from the wings. We solve 1 hole, open another.

We wait one season and now THJ and Holmes are expiring and easier to trade for upgrades. We'll also be able to trade more draft picks. Hopefully some of our young guys improve enough to be playoff rotation players. Just more options then the limited ones we have now.

Note, I wanna compete for a championship this year too. But I just think there's a lot of logic to not rushing things like we've done since we drafted Luka. Rushing is what got us into the mess of a roster and lack of assets that we've had the last few years.

My point is pretty simple, we're not winning anything with Lively on C in next 3 years. And I doubt very much Kyrie and Luka can wait longer.

I really can't understand why they drafted Lively. They could easily get Ayton, if they were really interested, and use 12th pick for trading for some wing defender.

Nobody will openly admit, but truth is, Mavs are totally dependent on very unlikely scenario that rookies will be able to help from day 1. If they can't, which is far more realistic scenario, Mavs are not that much better than last year.

The center position is becoming the least important position in the league so it appears the Mavs have placed an even lower value than other teams. I'm guessing their strategy is to go cheap at that position and drafting Lively was the best available for what they need. I was happy with the pick but I thought they'd bring in more of a stopgap to help develop him.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that Tyson Chandler is working with him and should have a good idea of how far along he is in the develment process.

[Bob8]

I agree with some of your points. What's your suggestion to improve the C position? The one I hear here the most is to trade THJ + Green + picks (maybe?) for Capela. Do that and now all of a sudden you're totally relying on Omax and DJJ to carry our wing defense. Not to mention we actually need THJ and Green's creation and scoring from the wings. We solve 1 hole, open another.

We wait one season and now THJ and Holmes are expiring and easier to trade for upgrades. We'll also be able to trade more draft picks. Hopefully some of our young guys improve enough to be playoff rotation players. Just more options then the limited ones we have now.

Note, I wanna compete for a championship this year too. But I just think there's a lot of logic to not rushing things like we've done since we drafted Luka. Rushing is what got us into the mess of a roster and lack of assets that we've had the last few years.

My point is pretty simple, we're not winning anything with Lively on C in next 3 years. And I doubt very much Kyrie and Luka can wait longer.

I really can't understand why they drafted Lively. They could easily get Ayton, if they were really interested, and use 12th pick for trading for some wing defender.

Nobody will openly admit, but truth is, Mavs are totally dependent on very unlikely scenario that rookies will be able to help from day 1. If they can't, which is far more realistic scenario, Mavs are not that much better than last year.

The center position is becoming the least important position in the league so it appears the Mavs have placed an even lower value than other teams. I'm guessing their strategy is to go cheap at that position and drafting Lively was the best available for what they need. I was happy with the pick but I thought they'd bring in more of a stopgap to help develop him.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that Tyson Chandler is working with him and should have a good idea of how far along he is in the develment process.

Timeline looks of here. You have Kyrie getting old and Luka being pretty much in the end with his patience and you draft totally raw rookie?

C might not be that important, but rebounding is. Mavs are the worst rebounding team in the league and I doubt very much that 2 rookies and 6'6" player can change that.

[41Dirk41]

I agree with the first part of Bob comment, those 2 moves (resign Kyrie and draft Lively) are incompatibles.
Cuban messed up again because he is not so smart but probably his goal isn't win but makes money of course so a good team plus kids is perfect for him.
Ayton was basically free and the pick had a lot of value (Green+ pick can landed maybe OG or someone like him).

But I think Mavs are better than the last year... Kyrie-Luka chemistry will increase , Holmes+Lively+Maxi is way better rotation than Powell+Maxi+McGee and Williams fill a big hole.
Plus we have Curry and a bunch of young guns with upside.

[Bob8]

I agree with the first part of Bob comment, those 2 moves (resign Kyrie and draft Lively) are incompatibles.
Cuban messed up again because he is not so smart but probably his goal isn't win but makes money of course so a good team plus kids is perfect for him.
Ayton was basically free and the pick had a lot of value (Green+ pick can landed maybe OG or someone like him).

But I think Mavs are better than the last year... Kyrie-Luka chemistry will increase , Holmes+Lively+Maxi is way better rotation than Powell+Maxi+McGee and Williams fill a big hole.
Plus we have Curry and a bunch of young guns with upside.

I didn't hear a single word about Holmes, it looks to me like they don't count on him at all. Lively we saw in summer league can't play in Nba, I will give him a benefit of doubt and wait, if he has made tremendous strides, not exactly sure how plausible is that. If those 2 can't help, it's basically 6'6" Williams vs. Wood. Williams for sure better fit, much better defender, but worse offensive player. All in all improvement for Mavs for sure, but not exactly game changer.

Curry doesn't count, because Mavs are having just too many players in his position. Similarly goes for Exum, who is solid player, but unfortunately there are only Frank's and Pinson's minutes available. I would trade Hardy, if someone wants him, who doesn't have bright future in Mavs after Kyrie came and give his minutes to Exum, who's much more beneficial to what Mavs need. D, some playmaking and some IQ. Hardy lacks everything.

[41Dirk41]

I agree with the first part of Bob comment, those 2 moves (resign Kyrie and draft Lively) are incompatibles.
Cuban messed up again because he is not so smart but probably his goal isn't win but makes money of course so a good team plus kids is perfect for him.
Ayton was basically free and the pick had a lot of value (Green+ pick can landed maybe OG or someone like him).

But I think Mavs are better than the last year... Kyrie-Luka chemistry will increase , Holmes+Lively+Maxi is way better rotation than Powell+Maxi+McGee and Williams fill a big hole.
Plus we have Curry and a bunch of young guns with upside.

I didn't hear a single word about Holmes, it looks to me like they don't count on him at all. Lively we saw in summer league can't play in Nba, I will give him a benefit of doubt and wait, if he has made tremendous strides, not exactly sure how plausible is that. If those 2 can't help, it's basically 6'6" Williams vs. Wood. Williams for sure better fit, much better defender, but worse offensive player. All in all improvement for Mavs for sure, but not exactly game changer.

Curry doesn't count, because Mavs are having just too many players in his position. Similarly goes for Exum, who is solid player, but unfortunately there are only Frank's and Pinson's minutes available. I would trade Hardy, if someone wants him, who doesn't have bright future in Mavs after Kyrie came and give his minutes to Exum, who's much more beneficial to what Mavs need. D, some playmaking and some IQ. Hardy lacks everything.

I agree with the first part of Bob comment, those 2 moves (resign Kyrie and draft Lively) are incompatibles.
Cuban messed up again because he is not so smart but probably his goal isn't win but makes money of course so a good team plus kids is perfect for him.
Ayton was basically free and the pick had a lot of value (Green+ pick can landed maybe OG or someone like him).

But I think Mavs are better than the last year... Kyrie-Luka chemistry will increase , Holmes+Lively+Maxi is way better rotation than Powell+Maxi+McGee and Williams fill a big hole.
Plus we have Curry and a bunch of young guns with upside.

I didn't hear a single word about Holmes, it looks to me like they don't count on him at all. Lively we saw in summer league can't play in Nba, I will give him a benefit of doubt and wait, if he has made tremendous strides, not exactly sure how plausible is that. If those 2 can't help, it's basically 6'6" Williams vs. Wood. Williams for sure better fit, much better defender, but worse offensive player. All in all improvement for Mavs for sure, but not exactly game changer.

Curry doesn't count, because Mavs are having just too many players in his position. Similarly goes for Exum, who is solid player, but unfortunately there are only Frank's and Pinson's minutes available. I would trade Hardy, if someone wants him, who doesn't have bright future in Mavs after Kyrie came and give his minutes to Exum, who's much more beneficial to what Mavs need. D, some playmaking and some IQ. Hardy lacks everything.

Yes the part about Holmes scares me a lot, maybe he is done

[Maverick41]

Seems like the entire team and coaching staff is very impressed with Lively. Like mentioned by others, Holmes has barely even been mentioned but nor has Powell or Maxi either.

If there's someone I'm most worried about being buried in the bench (and losing value), it's Hardy. He's not even playing with the 2nd unit and has been basically forgotten in almost all media interviews so far.

[BeiBeau]

I think Holmes is on a trading block along with Hardaway...they+one of Green,Hardy and a pick might be shopped for a starting SF

I don't know but like i said multiple times, it makes zero sense for Mavs to trade for a SF unless it's a star. OMax, Luka, Green, THJ, Grant, even Hardy... All can play SF in the right rotation. If you deplete all the assests you're still left with a huge hole that is a center.

Luka Will be the PG, Josh(can Play SF on O,on D he has trouble with bigger wings) and Hardy(he's a SG)lack size to face bigger SF(Kawhi,Ingram,OG)...OMAX(a rookie) is the only one(unless DJJ shows some sign of Life)...Timmy is also a SF only on O...Mavs need a good SF with the size of Omax or DJJ

Someone like OG,,Wiggins,hell,even Murphy from Pelicans would be good on SF..seems like they're convinced Lively's the real deal...but there's a diference looking good in practice and in an actual game....I expect Lively in the start to have a hard time staying on the floor(he's gonna have foul trouble

If they decide they're good on the SF positions and still need a C Turner would be my top choice ,followed by Allen and Robinson...offcourse Mavs Don't have any assets to get them ,so it might be Best for them to wait it out until next offseason

Offensively Luka plays 1, Kyrie plays 2, Green plays 3, Grant plays 4, Lively 5. Defensively Kyrie plays 1, Green plays 2, Grant plays 3 or 4, Luka plays 3 or 4, and Lively plays 5.

[BeiBeau]

Seems like the entire team and coaching staff is very impressed with Lively. Like mentioned by others, Holmes has barely even been mentioned but nor has Powell or Maxi either.

If there's someone I'm most worried about being buried in the bench (and losing value), it's Hardy. He's not even playing with the 2nd unit and has been basically forgotten in almost all media interviews so far.

It is for sure both a good and bad thing that Hardy is the one getting buried. Last season McKinley Wright, Theo Pinson, Davis Bertans, Frank Nilikina combined to play 27 minutes a game for us. The fact that our depth is now good enough that Hardy will have to fight hard for his minutes against THJ, Curry, and Exum. That is undoubtedly a good thing.

[41Dirk41]

Seems like the entire team and coaching staff is very impressed with Lively. Like mentioned by others, Holmes has barely even been mentioned but nor has Powell or Maxi either.

If there's someone I'm most worried about being buried in the bench (and losing value), it's Hardy. He's not even playing with the 2nd unit and has been basically forgotten in almost all media interviews so far.

I hope Lively is more NBA ready than we expect but the family scrimmage are not so indicatives.

We don't have minutes for Hardy, signin Seth and Exum we offically buried him on the bench, at this point probably it's better trade him...

[41Dirk41]

Anyway i don't think Ayton and Time Lord will remain in the same team because they want play for win(at least Williams) not split 20 minutes a game in a rebuilding team...

Nico has to make an offer for sure and pairing again the Williams.

[Teffer10]

Seems like the entire team and coaching staff is very impressed with Lively. Like mentioned by others, Holmes has barely even been mentioned but nor has Powell or Maxi either.

If there's someone I'm most worried about being buried in the bench (and losing value), it's Hardy. He's not even playing with the 2nd unit and has been basically forgotten in almost all media interviews so far.

It is for sure both a good and bad thing that Hardy is the one getting buried. Last season McKinley Wright, Theo Pinson, Davis Bertans, Frank Nilikina combined to play 27 minutes a game for us. The fact that our depth is now good enough that Hardy will have to fight hard for his minutes against THJ, Curry, and Exum. That is undoubtedly a good thing.

I was banking on the upside of Hardy and some of our other youth to help improve this team this season. Sticking primarily with Hardaway and Powell shouldn't give us hope for any improvement.

Exum is a little upgrade from Frank, Curry is a 6'1 version of Bertans, and William's makes up for the loss of DFS but I dont see where we improve that much if some of the youth dont pull through. Powell will become starting center after the first rookie mistake by Lively and here we are with virtually the same team that finished last season.
We may be deep, but only deep on our bench....we are still missing at least 2 starters.

[Bob8]

Exactly. People are very optimistic, but their optimism is built mostly on 2 rookies and Williams. Deep bench is great for RS. But in playoffs you need 5 good players and 3 good replacements, everyone else doesn't matter much.

That's why I believe that trading for Ayton, and using 12th pick for getting some solid wing would be much better.

[Mavrelous]

Exactly. People are very optimistic, but their optimism is built mostly on 2 rookies and Williams. Deep bench is great for RS. But in playoffs you need 5 good players and 3 good replacements, everyone else doesn't matter much.

Mavs missed the PO last year, and Luka had to go for 50-60 to beat the likes of Rockets, Spurs and Brunson-less Knicks, I'll take better RS performance, and ability to afford 15-20 missed games by each of Luka/Kyrie and ability to survive bad Luka games for this year.
This isn't a contender, I doubt anyone here claims that, but it is a younger and deeper team, and next year they can upgrade, I'll consider this season a success if Mavs make it to the 2nd round, I don't want to think what'll happen if they miss the PO again.

[Bob8]

Exactly. People are very optimistic, but their optimism is built mostly on 2 rookies and Williams. Deep bench is great for RS. But in playoffs you need 5 good players and 3 good replacements, everyone else doesn't matter much.

Mavs missed the PO last year, and Luka had to go for 50-60 to beat the likes of Rockets, Spurs and Brunson-less Knicks, I'll take better RS performance, and ability to afford 15-20 missed games by each of Luka/Kyrie and ability to survive bad Luka games for this year.
This isn't a contender, I doubt anyone here claims that, but it is a younger and deeper team, and next year they can upgrade, I'll consider this season a success if Mavs make it to the 2nd round, I don't want to think what'll happen if they miss the PO again.

My question is, what have we gained with Lively, if he will need 3-5 years, what's more or less normal time for rookie C like him? Shouldn't we spent that pick for someone, who can help immediately?

[Mavrelous]

My question is, what have we gained with Lively, if he will need 3-5 years, what's more or less normal time for rookie C like him?

I don't think he'll take 3-5 years to contribute...
It may take him 3-5 years to get to this final form, but he can contribute earlier.
From what I saw, he needs to learn to screen without leaning his shoulder in (this tells me he's afraid of contact), and box out better (he's used to be taller and longer than anyone in his vicinity), he learns these and he's a better center than Powell and Holmes and this doesn't take 5 years to learn.
Every rookie is a gamble, Lively may be a bust, but between picking Lively and trading him with Hardy to get Capella, I take Lively any day.
There aren't an centers other than Capella that fit what the Mavs need and are available.
FWIW, I would've trade THJ/Holmes for Ayton in a split second, but Mavs FO (and basically 25 other FOs also) seem to think he's not worth even this small price.

[Bob8]

My question is, what have we gained with Lively, if he will need 3-5 years, what's more or less normal time for rookie C like him?

I don't think he'll take 3-5 years to contribute...
It may take him 3-5 years to get to this final form, but he can contribute earlier.
From what I saw, he needs to learn to screen without leaning his shoulder in (this tells me he's afraid of contact), and box out better (he's used to be taller and longer than anyone in his vicinity), he learns these and he's a better center than Powell and Holmes and this doesn't take 5 years to learn.
Every rookie is a gamble, Lively may be a bust, but between picking Lively and trading him with Hardy to get Capella, I take Lively any day.
There aren't an centers other than Capella that fit what the Mavs need and are available.
FWIW, I would've trade THJ/Holmes for Ayton in a split second, but Mavs FO (and basically 25 other FOs also) seem to think he's not worth even this small price.

Problem is, we will still need upgrade on C next year, unless Lively makes unprecedented improvements. What's a point of having Kyrie and Luka, if you can't contend in near future?

[Mavrelous]

Problem is, we will still need upgrade on C next year, unless Lively makes unprecedented improvements. What's a point of having Kyrie and Luka, if you can't contend in near future?

You need to put the best roster possible, they planned on upgrading the center, they even said so multiple times, they failed because the asking price was high, Marc Stein reported what the Hawks asked, he's very reliable, Hawks asked for way too much, and Capella isn't exactly a surefire solution.
Hawks defensive rating with Capella (and Hunter, Murray and Collins next to him, all above average defenders with great size at the wings) was really bad, same for Turner, you need to ask yourself, if they weren't very good for defense on their teams, are we sure they are going to improve the Mavs, Powell's 2022 defensive rating dwarfed them.