3 guard lineup (Luka ,Kyrie,Dante) the way to go

[tleikheen]

So many thought we hit got a starter level player in Grant Williams, He was anointed to be the Mavs #3 starter. Didnt matter what he did when he was playing for Boston. Green he got his bag .....he needed to play to show his new worth.He was thought to be ready.

The end of the bench Dante Exum has exploded onto the Mavs court and shown why he was the # 5 pick 10 yrs ago .His journey is for Netflix. But here he is entering his prime and playing for the Mavs.
These games he's starting , He is burying 3's and pounding dunks with authority. This is starter level and might be star level.

We're starting to see there might be a better lineup than the Lively,Williams,Green,Kyrie,Luka lineup.
That the best lineup going forward is the Lively,Jones Jr,Kyrie,Luka,Dante lineup.

We're coming to a crossroad as Kyrie is getting close to getting back on the court ( he was on the bench this last game) and Green maybe a week away.

Lots of opinions to what we've seen and how do we win going forward.

[Mavrelous]

Grant Williams won the Mavs games this year, he also had bad stretches, he is still 10PPG, 30 MPG, 40% 3P% guy, MLE level guy which he was signed for, able to guard 4s and slow 3s, expecting all star production from him is unrealistic.
I'm not opposed to 3 guard lineups, but against big teams it's a pipe dream, Mavs are too small as it is, and Grant is physical and strong.
Exum should assume the Dinwiddie role from 2022, 1st guard of the bench and the team having 2 ball handlers at all time, a winning formula, that elevated this team to its best stretch in Luka era, and for some reason, they aren't going back to it, a habbit of Kidd, take the most obvious step, and do the opposite.
In games one of Luka/Kyrie are missing Exum should start.
Luka can post up, Kyrie can run off screens or spot up, when there is another ball handler next to him.

[joesha1698]

I think we got much better with Exum starting and I disagree that were too small. Kyrie is 6'3 and Exum is 6'5. Tony Parker and Manu were 6'1 and 6'6 starting backcourt for years. It comes down to Exum's ability to play defense, which he seems to pretty good at. I also think you can leave Grant Williams at the pf position as well and Luka will just have to guard the 3. Now, I like Grant Williams (good player, still finding his groove) but I think we need to upgrade the PF position.

[Mavrelous]

I think we got much better with Exum starting and I disagree that were too small. Kyrie is 6'3 and Exum is 6'5. Tony Parker and Manu were 6'1 and 6'6 starting backcourt for years. It comes down to Exum's ability to play defense, which he seems to pretty good at. I also think you can leave Grant Williams at the pf position as well and Luka will just have to guard the 3. Now, I like Grant Williams (good player, still finding his groove) but I think we need to upgrade the PF position.

You want Luka guarding the Tatums, Kawhis, Scott Barnes of the league?
Yeah, Mavs need a big wing, but within the current roster the current setup is a center, 2 offensive guards (Luka and Kyrie), and 2 defensive players (DJJ and Grant), one for big wings and one for guards, the hope was for bench that consists of 2-way players in Green and Exum, with Maxi and THJ, but Maxi is injured, and Green disappointed.
If Mavs had a way to get OG, they would've, they don't have the assets for it.

[Archx]

I think we got much better with Exum starting and I disagree that were too small. Kyrie is 6'3 and Exum is 6'5. Tony Parker and Manu were 6'1 and 6'6 starting backcourt for years. It comes down to Exum's ability to play defense, which he seems to pretty good at. I also think you can leave Grant Williams at the pf position as well and Luka will just have to guard the 3. Now, I like Grant Williams (good player, still finding his groove) but I think we need to upgrade the PF position.

After last few years of watching Mavs struggle with midget lineups, i'm frankly sick and tired of that BS. Mavs need length and athleticism at wing and center positions.
Last night DJJ guarded Ant almost to perfection, he gave him insane amount of troubles due to his length and ability to move. Grant and Lively are almost another Powell/Maxi combo. Can be effective against some lineups but it's not a solution. Luka already has to play PF on defense a lot of times.

[41Dirk41]

Grant Williams won the Mavs games this year, he also had bad stretches, he is still 10PPG, 30 MPG, 40% 3P% guy, MLE level guy which he was signed for, able to guard 4s and slow 3s, expecting all star production from him is unrealistic.
I'm not opposed to 3 guard lineups, but against big teams it's a pipe dream, Mavs are too small as it is, and Grant is physical and strong.
Exum should assume the Dinwiddie role from 2022, 1st guard of the bench and the team having 2 ball handlers at all time, a winning formula, that elevated this team to its best stretch in Luka era, and for some reason, they aren't going back to it, a habbit of Kidd, take the most obvious step, and do the opposite.
In games one of Luka/Kyrie are missing Exum should start.
Luka can post up, Kyrie can run off screens or spot up, when there is another ball handler next to him.

Exum is good like secondary ballhandler on the court with defense (and i hope he still shoots like last games) so SD 2022 role is perfect for him.

Williams is a SF and a situational PF and i'm ok with him, we need an upgrade for DJJ who is too erratic.

Green is probably expandables for a good 4/5.

The Spurs played Tony and Manu but also Bowen, Timmy and Robinson or Kawhi,Timmy and Diaw.
We don't have those kind of frount court players unfortunately

[Dali]

I know that we brought in G-Will to be that strong wing who can play defense and can hit a 3, but can we, at least as of this moment, stop pretending that he's playing any sort of acceptable defense. And also that unless he's hitting his 3's that he's contributing in any other sort of way.

3 rebounds average in his 30 minutes per game is not good, and he has never been a good rebounder. Yes he lacks size, but we brought him in to add steel into the team and a bit of toughness as others have pointed out. This is not happening currently.

THJ is a sieve on defense and has a def rating of 120.2.

G-Will has a def rating of 117. They are not that apart in terms of the rating and the eye test tells me that too. Unless G-Will is hitting 3's he offers nothing, but just a beefy body that is still bad on defense.

The reason why DJJ and Exum work better is that they're both on the eye, and statistically better defensively than Grant right now. DJJ 111.0 def rating, Dante 109.8 (offensive rating 123.5 giving him an insane +13.7, best on the team). Not only that, Dante can actually put the ball on the floor and do things much better, and I even believe that DJJ can put the ball on the floor a little better than Grant.

I personally believe the biggest question is, if you bench Grant, do you lose him mentally? He was brought in and touted as THAT third starter that the Mavs needed. All of a sudden if you bench him for Dante, how does that play out? Should the Mavs care about this, or should they do whats best for the team?

I mean, guys and girls, it might be a tough conversation to have, but Grant 5.1 PIE to dante 12.1. Grant 9.2 PER Dante 18.5. Grant win shares 0.8 in 30 mins per game, Dante 1.2 in 15 minutes per game. It is night and day. But like I said, are you willing to perhaps cause some unrest in Grant by benching him, is that why Kidd will perservere with him?

[41Dirk41]

Grant is a MLE guy, if we pretend he will plays like Kawhi Leonard we have a problem.
Btw he shoots very bad lately.

About Lakers game LeBron feasted against Dante but not with Grant and it's just for his body conformation.
If we take off Grant from S5 nobody can guard big body wing... Exum is too skinny.

If the point is put Dante in S5 then we have to trade Luka or Kyrie... Or maybe a healthy and young Kleber at the 4.

[Dali]

Lebron feasted against everyone, including Dante and Grant. Nobody stopped him, and nobody stopped AD.

This is my whole point, in theory it sounds good to say Grant can guard these guys, but he cant, and hasn't been, and has rebounded poorly. Kyrie irving is grabbing more boards than our big beefy guy Grant, with about the same minutes, and Kyrie is 6 freakin 2 on a good day.

I think the unfortunate situation is we've all clutched and clawed onto this idealist version of Grant Williams where he's beefy and he does all these things, when the actual reality in the first 24 games has been completely different. The only thing that has been true has been his 3 point percentage, and even then, not recently.

Nobody's expecting a Kawhi, or they shouldn't if they are expecting it. I saw Kidd's face after Grant airballed one of his drive and pull up jumpers today, from the elbow of the key. He had the face of bewilderement and sheer disappointment on his face.

[tleikheen]

Grant is a MLE guy, if we pretend he will plays like Kawhi Leonard we have a problem.
Btw he shoots very bad lately.

About Lakers game LeBron feasted against Dante but not with Grant and it's just for his body conformation.
If we take off Grant from S5 nobody can guard big body wing... Exum is too skinny.

If the point is put Dante in S5 then we have to trade Luka or Kyrie... Or maybe a healthy and young Kleber at the 4.

1st thought I had was how many Lebrons are bringing the ball up court like him. Most of the time Exum is bigger than the guard bringing the ball up court . As stated and last nights eye test showed ,Exums defensive rating Dali pointed out bared out and when Exum sat the Wolves went on a run and this happened everytime.

In my opinion I'll take Exum being to skinny over GWill being too small and getting a measly 3 rebounds in 36 minutes at the PF position .That is being dominated up front.

[Dali]

Just to elaborate a little further, I don't understand why either Luka or Kyrie would have to be traded if Dante enters the starting 5.

I believe that inserting Dante into the line up doesn't mean all of a sudden we have to trade Luka or Kyrie, To use the Lakers example, I would put my trust into DJJ, who was excellent on ANT today, to put on Lebron and see how much he can slow him down. Lively on AD. Dante on either Cam or Prince, depending on who the mavs think Luka can play the better defense on either Redish or Prince, lets say Redish because he's taller, and Dante on Prince who's about the same height as him. Kyrie on Dlo.

The wolves are a special example though, not many teams can matchup with the two towers they have, and this season has proven that they are a touch matchup for pretty much everybody.

[tleikheen]

Here's what I saw on reddit ...... with Exum and Lively on the court.

Possessions 228 Def rating 141,2 / Off rating 112.4 .... net rating 28.8

Lively and Exum are looking like the beginning of the new look defensive backbone for the Mavs..

[41Dirk41]

Grant is a MLE guy, if we pretend he will plays like Kawhi Leonard we have a problem.
Btw he shoots very bad lately.

About Lakers game LeBron feasted against Dante but not with Grant and it's just for his body conformation.
If we take off Grant from S5 nobody can guard big body wing... Exum is too skinny.

If the point is put Dante in S5 then we have to trade Luka or Kyrie... Or maybe a healthy and young Kleber at the 4.

1st thought I had was how many Lebrons are bringing the ball up court like him. Most of the time Exum is bigger than the guard bringing the ball up court . As stated and last nights eye test showed ,Exums defensive rating Dali pointed out bared out and when Exum sat the Wolves went on a run and this happened everytime.

In my opinion I'll take Exum being to skinny over GWill being too small and getting a measly 3 rebounds in 36 minutes at the PF position .That is being dominated up front.

I agree that Williams is not a PF.

Again, i don't have any battle to fight for Exum... If you put him in the S5 he has to guard LeBron/Kawhi or PG/Giannis/Ingram or Zion/ecc ecc because we have to hide Luka and Irving most of the time.

Maybe it's work, we wil see if Kidd makes that choice.

[tleikheen]

I dont get the picture that Exum is guarding SF's with Kyrie and Doncic together. Clearly every game we see him picking up guys full court and that isnt the guys not bringing the ball up . Playing 3 guard lineup I dont see Doncic or Irving picking up the ball handlers full court ,isn't that Exums job? Exum is always gonna guard the offensive threat within the opposing teams guards .

[Captain_Obvious]

Here's what I saw on reddit ...... with Exum and Lively on the court.

Possessions 228 Def rating 141,2 / Off rating 112.4 .... net rating 28.8

Lively and Exum are looking like the beginning of the new look defensive backbone for the Mavs..

I maybe dumb. But isnt that a -28.8?

[Maverick41]

I dont get the picture that Exum is guarding SF's with Kyrie and Doncic together. Clearly every game we see him picking up guys full court and that isnt the guys not bringing the ball up . Playing 3 guard lineup I dont see Doncic or Irving picking up the ball handlers full court ,isn't that Exums job? Exum is always gonna guard the offensive threat within the opposing teams guards .

This is correct. Exum is usually guarding the opposing team's PG (sometimes SG) and is rarely guarding a SF unless he gets switched on them. It's the same role as Bullock when DFS was here or Josh Green when he started later last year. We need a guy like that to be that ball hawk. We're not good enough defensively to defend for all 24 seconds of a possession most of the time, but we can be good enough to guard for 16 to 18 seconds of a possession. A guy like Exum that can put enough pressure in the backcourt provides that.

[Bob8]

Here's what I saw on reddit ...... with Exum and Lively on the court.

Possessions 228 Def rating 141,2 / Off rating 112.4 .... net rating 28.8

Lively and Exum are looking like the beginning of the new look defensive backbone for the Mavs..

I maybe dumb. But isnt that a -28.8?

He wrote it wrong and we don't need Reddit for that.

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

[Bob8]

Here's what I saw on reddit ...... with Exum and Lively on the court.

Possessions 228 Def rating 141,2 / Off rating 112.4 .... net rating 28.8

Lively and Exum are looking like the beginning of the new look defensive backbone for the Mavs..

I maybe dumb. But isnt that a -28.8?

He wrote it wrong and we don't need Reddit for that.

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

I have no idea, why it doesn't show the right link. You have to go to stats, lineups/ advanced, 2 players lineups.

[Captain_Obvious]

I maybe dumb. But isnt that a -28.8?

He wrote it wrong and we don't need Reddit for that.

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

I have no idea, why it doesn't show the right link. You have to go to stats, lineups/ advanced, 2 players lineups.

Thanks, so
134.4 OffRat 112.7 DefRat in 135 min

Hardaway and Seth looking good as well

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612742/lineups-advanced?GroupQuantity=2&dir=D&sort=NET_RATING

[41Dirk41]

I dont get the picture that Exum is guarding SF's with Kyrie and Doncic together. Clearly every game we see him picking up guys full court and that isnt the guys not bringing the ball up . Playing 3 guard lineup I dont see Doncic or Irving picking up the ball handlers full court ,isn't that Exums job? Exum is always gonna guard the offensive threat within the opposing teams guards .

This is correct. Exum is usually guarding the opposing team's PG (sometimes SG) and is rarely guarding a SF unless he gets switched on them. It's the same role as Bullock when DFS was here or Josh Green when he started later last year. We need a guy like that to be that ball hawk. We're not good enough defensively to defend for all 24 seconds of a possession most of the time, but we can be good enough to guard for 16 to 18 seconds of a possession. A guy like Exum that can put enough pressure in the backcourt provides that.

So you want Luka or Kyrie guard opposite wings in this NBA? It will be a bloodbath in PO...

I don't think Kidd will ever put that lineup with a full healthy roster.