RealGM

Cyrus wrote:

Parataxis wrote:Well, looks like the Jays will be getting an extra draft pick after the 4th round. Giants signing Chappy to a 3/54, with player options each year.

We can't have multiple crappy hitters where there only value is defense, that don't do much other than strikeout or hit hr. We had him, varsho. One is enough

I mean, we replaced Chapman with an even worse version of that player archetype.

Hottie McShotty wrote:

Raptors Realtor wrote:The offense is going to be a big issue again this season... They need to upgrade the offense STAT, can't wait till the deadline... And no I'm not basing this on spring training lol, although it hasn't looked good.

2024 has the potential to be an unmitigated disaster for the Toronto Blue Jays.

As if the last 4 years weren't. This team can end up last in the division and Ed still won't fire his friend.

Raps in 4 wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Parataxis wrote:Well, looks like the Jays will be getting an extra draft pick after the 4th round. Giants signing Chappy to a 3/54, with player options each year.

We can't have multiple crappy hitters where there only value is defense, that don't do much other than strikeout or hit hr. We had him, varsho. One is enough

I mean, we replaced Chapman with an even worse version of that player archetype.

Agreed but atleast we aren't paying that dude 20+ mil for that kind of production player.

If chappie was willing to take 8 or 10 mil, sure I guess.

It's one of reasons that makes varsho tolerable, if he was getting paid 15 to 18 mill, he would make him even more infuriating

Cyrus wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:

Cyrus wrote:
We can't have multiple crappy hitters where there only value is defense, that don't do much other than strikeout or hit hr. We had him, varsho. One is enough

I mean, we replaced Chapman with an even worse version of that player archetype.

Agreed but atleast we aren't paying that dude 20+ mil for that kind of production player.

If chappie was willing to take 8 or 10 mil, sure I guess.

It's one of reasons that makes varsho tolerable, if he was getting paid 15 to 18 mill, he would make him even more infuriating

It's what makes the Kiermaier re-signing that much more confusing. I like Kiermaier, but him and Varsho in the outfield doesn't make offensive sense at all. Varsho's value is increased if he's the CF, Springer in right and a reliable RBI producing guy in LF.

Raptors Realtor wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
I mean, we replaced Chapman with an even worse version of that player archetype.

Agreed but atleast we aren't paying that dude 20+ mil for that kind of production player.

If chappie was willing to take 8 or 10 mil, sure I guess.

It's one of reasons that makes varsho tolerable, if he was getting paid 15 to 18 mill, he would make him even more infuriating

It's what makes the Kiermaier re-signing that much more confusing. I like Kiermaier, but him and Varsho in the outfield doesn't make offensive sense at all. Varsho's value is increased if he's the CF, Springer in right and a reliable RBI producing guy in LF.

We're going for the single season LOB record this year.

Wrong thread.

Raptors Realtor wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
I mean, we replaced Chapman with an even worse version of that player archetype.

Agreed but atleast we aren't paying that dude 20+ mil for that kind of production player.

If chappie was willing to take 8 or 10 mil, sure I guess.

It's one of reasons that makes varsho tolerable, if he was getting paid 15 to 18 mill, he would make him even more infuriating

It's what makes the Kiermaier re-signing that much more confusing. I like Kiermaier, but him and Varsho in the outfield doesn't make offensive sense at all. Varsho's value is increased if he's the CF, Springer in right and a reliable RBI producing guy in LF.

I preferred Varsho in CF. I had mentioned early in the off-season that I would have targetted a guy like Gurriel Jr to play in LF, and move on from Kiermaier. Gurriel can opt out after two years with Arizona, getting 10 million in 2024 (same money as Kiermaier this season), and 14 million in 2025. I thought that was a very reasonable deal which the Jays could have been on. Gurriel's deal with Arizona was 42 million guaranteed over 3 years if he did not opt-out after year 2, which again was reasonable. Hopefully Kiermaier can duplicate his batting numbers from 2023, and Varsho at least can be a league average with the bat in 2024. With the elite defense they provide, you can at least live with that in the bottom of the order if Kirk/Guerrero can bounce back with better years.

I don't understand the approach management has taken, but I am not privy to the budget they are really working with. It does appear that they won't be a tax team this year. And they have preserved the flexibility to extend Bo and/orVlad without becoming a tax team. But aside from that, it doesn't compute.

Why did we even resign KK? I'm so confused by that move. Wasn't he whining about playing on turf pretty much all of last year? And we were supposed to improve Varahos value by having him play his best defensive position at Center. So what the hell happened?

dagger wrote:But aside from that, it doesn't compute.

It may not compete, either. Barring major internal improvements offensively - and with Guillermo still amazingly in place at hitting coach, that's highly unlikely - this team is not a contender.

dagger wrote:I don't understand the approach management has taken, but I am not privy to the budget they are really working with. It does appear that they won't be a tax team this year. And they have preserved the flexibility to extend Bo and/orVlad without becoming a tax team. But aside from that, it doesn't compute.

They are currently well into the CBT (payroll is at 250m for CBT purposes). They are spending 230million on the 40man this year. 5th highest payroll in MLB. Our payroll is almost double Baltimore and Tampa COMBINED. They can't cry poor. It is mismanagement - plain and simple.

bluerap23 wrote:

dagger wrote:I don't understand the approach management has taken, but I am not privy to the budget they are really working with. It does appear that they won't be a tax team this year. And they have preserved the flexibility to extend Bo and/orVlad without becoming a tax team. But aside from that, it doesn't compute.

They are currently well into the CBT (payroll is at 250m for CBT purposes). They are spending 230million on the 40man this year. 5th highest payroll in MLB. Our payroll is almost double Baltimore and Tampa COMBINED. They can't cry poor. It is mismanagement - plain and simple.

Wait.. Baltimore is gonna run away with the division with only a 60 million dollar payroll?? You wot mate?

Yeah, why bring back the reigning AL GG winner ( his 4th) who posted an OPS of .741 last year. He looked like the KK before the injuries again, and they got him for 10.5 million.

Guys like Eden, Roden and Barger should all start in AAA again, so its not like he’s blocking a top prospect on a 1 year deal.

He gives them the best defensive OF in the big leagues. When you are trying to win with pitching and defense, that’s a pretty big deal. Also, not a bad guy to learn how to play CF in the AL from if your Varsho.

Also, they cant be surprised how bad the hitting got. They basically spent 2 off seasons letting HRs walk out the door in favor of pitching and defense.

Semien, Hernandez, Grichuk and Gurriel are all gone. Those 4 guys hit 120 HRs with 383 RBIs in 2021 when they could out-slug people.

They replaced Ray, Stripling, Ryu and Matz with Gausman, Bassitt, Manoah and Kikuchi… and then let Ryu walk. Thanks to Manoa’s implosion, they really didnt get much better SP in 2023 then they did in 2021. They NEED Manoah to figure it out this year, or for Bowden Francis to have a breakout season in the 5 spot. They also need a DOMINANT bullpen behind these starters they are going to be relying so heavily upon, and they didnt really spend any money there this offseason with Rodriguez trying things as a starter ffs. They lost Hicks and Jackson and added essentially no one.

Getting real hard to not think Atkins needs to go.

bartron_44 wrote:Also, they cant be surprised how bad the hitting got. They basically spent 2 off seasons letting HRs walk out the door in favor of pitching and defense.

Semien, Hernandez, Grichuk and Gurriel are all gone. Those 4 guys hit 120 HRs with 383 RBIs in 2021 when they could out-slug people.

They replaced Ray, Stripling, Ryu and Matz with Gausman, Bassitt, Manoah and Kikuchi… and then let Ryu walk. Thanks to Manoa’s implosion, they really didnt get much better SP in 2023 then they did in 2021. They NEED Manoah to figure it out this year, or for Bowden Francis to have a breakout season in the 5 spot. They also need a DOMINANT bullpen behind these starters they are going to be relying so heavily upon, and they didnt really spend any money there this offseason with Rodriguez trying things as a starter ffs. They lost Hicks and Jackson and added essentially no one.

Getting real hard to not think Atkins needs to go.

Not only that, we got basically nothing in return for them as well. Semien just walked, Hernandez was traded for a BP pitcher, and Gurriel was a free throw in. Grichuk sucks anyways

Althugh they are willing to spend on top flight talent, they are very frugal in their middle tier selection of players, preferring to keep the powder dry for the trade deadline. Remember when Anthopolis had to pass around the hat to try to sign a pitcher before spring training? Their money is very transitory and is really only available for whatever targets they've pre-determined. If they don't fall into the perfect hole (or they're ridiculously cheap--like our new is old CFer) they don't sign them. Unless there is term, they rarely trade for them, which ends up costing them significant talent to balance out the roster. It's part of having a publically traded company as an owner.

I do think they do a good job signing young players and trying to improve their internal development system, but mostly they are playing the small-mid market game with more "play around" money (mostly at the deadline). Which makes sense, given their tme in Cleveland.

youreachiteach wrote:Althugh they are willing to spend on top flight talent, they are very frugal in their middle tier selection of players, preferring to keep the powder dry for the trade deadline. Remember when Anthopolis had to pass around the hat to try to sign a pitcher before spring training? Their money is very transitory and is really only available for whatever targets they've pre-determined. If they don't fall into the perfect hole (or they're ridiculously cheap--like our new is old CFer) they don't sign them. Unless there is term, they rarely trade for them, which ends up costing them significant talent to balance out the roster. It's part of having a publically traded company as an owner.

I do think they do a good job signing young players and trying to improve their internal development system, but mostly they are playing the small-mid market game with more "play around" money (mostly at the deadline). Which makes sense, given their tme in Cleveland.

Again - can't blame ownership when you have a 230million budget. This is on Shatkins. Almost a decade in and they can't figure out a way to put a winner on the field. This team has had some really amazing management in its history. I'd rank these guys second worst. Hoping there are no extensions as they are nearing the end of their contracts.

bluerap23 wrote:

youreachiteach wrote:Althugh they are willing to spend on top flight talent, they are very frugal in their middle tier selection of players, preferring to keep the powder dry for the trade deadline. Remember when Anthopolis had to pass around the hat to try to sign a pitcher before spring training? Their money is very transitory and is really only available for whatever targets they've pre-determined. If they don't fall into the perfect hole (or they're ridiculously cheap--like our new is old CFer) they don't sign them. Unless there is term, they rarely trade for them, which ends up costing them significant talent to balance out the roster. It's part of having a publically traded company as an owner.

I do think they do a good job signing young players and trying to improve their internal development system, but mostly they are playing the small-mid market game with more "play around" money (mostly at the deadline). Which makes sense, given their tme in Cleveland.

Again - can't blame ownership when you have a 230million budget. This is on Shatkins. Almost a decade in and they can't figure out a way to put a winner on the field. This team has had some really amazing management in its history. I'd rank these guys second worst. Hoping there are no extensions as they are nearing the end of their contracts.

What I find baffling is for the first time in a decade Rogers is finally willing to dish out the big bucks to put a winning product on the field and then decides to bring in the biggest penny pinchers in the league to run his team.

bluerap23 wrote:

youreachiteach wrote:Althugh they are willing to spend on top flight talent, they are very frugal in their middle tier selection of players, preferring to keep the powder dry for the trade deadline. Remember when Anthopolis had to pass around the hat to try to sign a pitcher before spring training? Their money is very transitory and is really only available for whatever targets they've pre-determined. If they don't fall into the perfect hole (or they're ridiculously cheap--like our new is old CFer) they don't sign them. Unless there is term, they rarely trade for them, which ends up costing them significant talent to balance out the roster. It's part of having a publically traded company as an owner.

I do think they do a good job signing young players and trying to improve their internal development system, but mostly they are playing the small-mid market game with more "play around" money (mostly at the deadline). Which makes sense, given their tme in Cleveland.

Again - can't blame ownership when you have a 230million budget. This is on Shatkins. Almost a decade in and they can't figure out a way to put a winner on the field. This team has had some really amazing management in its history. I'd rank these guys second worst. Hoping there are no extensions as they are nearing the end of their contracts.

Oh I agree. I don't think it is an appropriate model. I just think this is why they were hired (to run it this way).