Jays vs Rays - May 22 to 25, 2023

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Biggio boots a double play ball to cost the Jays a run in the 1st.

Serious teams don't put out lineups like this in division when they are struggling for wins.

you play Merrifield against AL East teams. you can start Biggio against non-AL East teams if you are so inclined to start him.

[Raps in 4]

Biggio boots a double play ball to cost the Jays a run in the 1st.

Serious teams don't put out lineups like this in division when they are struggling for wins.

I don't think we're trying to win. We're getting in on the Wemby sweepstakes.

[Brinbe]

the team needs to be proactive about manoah instead of waiting till later in the year. they need to get him right or figure out another option if they want to compete.

i understand the front office doesn't want to do anything too early but it's almost june now. the team is what it is, so be proactive now.

[Corinne]

Manoah will really benefit from time in AAA. A bit of humble pie, low stakes situations, with different catchers, he will have a chance to decompress and come up with a new rhythm to his game. As soon as one of these pitchers comes back from the IL they need to send him down. It might even be okay to have an "opener" for a while . Manoah is simply not useful in this state.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Manoah and Kirk are getting eviscerated by Manoah's slowness

[Madvillainy2004]

Manoah is broken right now sad/painful to watch.

[Corinne]

They know they can steal as much as they want. Manoah uses disengagements to reset the clock and Kirk can't throw runners out.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Biggio boots a double play ball to cost the Jays a run in the 1st.

Serious teams don't put out lineups like this in division when they are struggling for wins.

I don't think we're trying to win. We're getting in on the Wemby sweepstakes.

Jays just need to finish 4th in the division and get into the wildcard lol.

for the play-in.

[Randle McMurphy]

Manoah was so exhausted he didn't even try to cover 3rd on the throw last inning. The Jays must realize how bad he's struggling with the clock by now. What are they gonna do about it?

[Randle McMurphy]

They know they can steal as much as they want. Manoah uses disengagements to reset the clock and Kirk can't throw runners out.

Because Manoah is so damn gassed out there pitching at this pace, he has to wait to the last possible second each time to throw and doesn't vary his delivery times. Makes it very easy for baserunners to time him up and go.

[Madvillainy2004]

I know everyone is saying phantom IL stint/AAA but who could we even call up with White hurt? Lmao

[Randle McMurphy]

I know everyone is saying phantom IL stint/AAA but who could we even call up with White hurt? Lmao

Doesn't even matter at this point. Looks like Bowden Francis just came back from injury. Hutchison also pitched to a 4.5 ERA in the bigs last year and could do something similar again.

They need to fix Manoah and not just for this season but for future seasons.

[Randle McMurphy]

There's also a possibility that he might be unfixable until he gets in better shape too.

[Corinne]

I know everyone is saying phantom IL stint/AAA but who could we even call up with White hurt? Lmao

Bringback trent thornton or casey lawrence and try to squeeze 2 inning out of each bullpen arm. It can't get much worse

[Madvillainy2004]

I know everyone is saying phantom IL stint/AAA but who could we even call up with White hurt? Lmao

Doesn't even matter at this point. Looks like Bowden Francis just came back from injury. Hutchison also pitched to a 4.5 ERA in the bigs last year and could do something similar again.

They need to fix Manoah and not just for this season but for future seasons.

Yeah I think Hutchinson can be a meh stop gap. But man with Kikuchi imploding our starting pitching is not looking great.

[Ranger One]

They know they can steal as much as they want. Manoah uses disengagements to reset the clock and Kirk can't throw runners out.

Because Manoah is so damn gassed out there pitching at this pace, he has to wait to the last possible second each time to throw and doesn't vary his delivery times. Makes it very easy for baserunners to time him up and go.

Yes, lets keep blaming the clock because Manoah is too fat and out of shape to pitch at a NORMAL pace that every other pitcher in the majors has no problem pitching in. If hes too fat to pitch to the pitch clock pace, then he either needs an intervention on his weight from the team, or he needs to retire. Thats the only options i see. Because the pitch clock isnt going away any time soon.

[Randle McMurphy]

They know they can steal as much as they want. Manoah uses disengagements to reset the clock and Kirk can't throw runners out.

Because Manoah is so damn gassed out there pitching at this pace, he has to wait to the last possible second each time to throw and doesn't vary his delivery times. Makes it very easy for baserunners to time him up and go.

Yes, lets keep blaming the clock because Manoah is too fat and out of shape to pitch at a NORMAL pace that every other pitcher in the majors has no problem pitching in. If hes too fat to pitch to the pitch clock pace, then he either needs an intervention on his weight from the team, or he needs to retire. Thats the only options i see. Because the pitch clock isnt going away any time soon.

How is that "blaming the clock?" It's blaming Manoah for not being able to pitch at the pace of the clock. You can literally watch all these games and see how gassed he gets trying to pitch through them.

And yes, he's gonna have to adjust to it or he'll find himself out of baseball soon. I'd rather he not learn to do that in the majors when we're trying to win games.

[Raider917]

what can guerrero get in a deal? hes going to walk in a couple of years and even if he doesnt, this team wont be good enough to compete that soon. if he can get pitching prospects im for it

[Ranger One]

Because Manoah is so damn gassed out there pitching at this pace, he has to wait to the last possible second each time to throw and doesn't vary his delivery times. Makes it very easy for baserunners to time him up and go.

Yes, lets keep blaming the clock because Manoah is too fat and out of shape to pitch at a NORMAL pace that every other pitcher in the majors has no problem pitching in. If hes too fat to pitch to the pitch clock pace, then he either needs an intervention on his weight from the team, or he needs to retire. Thats the only options i see. Because the pitch clock isnt going away any time soon.

How is that "blaming the clock?" It's blaming Manoah for not being able to pitch at the pace of the clock. You can literally watch all these games and see how gassed he gets trying to pitch through them.

And yes, he's gonna have to adjust to it or he'll find himself out of baseball soon. I'd rather he not learn to do that in the majors when we're trying to win games.

Yes i think we both agree on the underlying problems here. The guy is just too fat to pitch under the new rules. And its inexcusable that this multi billion dollar organization didnt have the foresight on this matter and how it would completely neuter Manoa's ability to pitch. They told Vladdy to lose weight when he first got to the Majors, i dont see why they cant do the same with Manoah.

[Raps in 4]

what can guerrero get in a deal? hes going to walk in a couple of years and even if he doesnt, this team wont be good enough to compete that soon. if he can get pitching prospects im for it

In the short term, we need to move Chapman and Whit if we're out of the playoff race by the All-Star break. We have a barren farm system. We could use some prospects.

If Shapiro fails to put together a competent team around Vladdy and Bo over the next season or two, then we should look to move one of them. We should obviously look to move on from Shapiro before that, but I'm not holding my breath.