Toronto Blue Jays (39-34) @ Miami Marlins (41-31) | June 19-21, 2023

[LLJ]

How a team this talented plays so poorly?

Shatkins spent over 210 millions on this roster and they still are mediocre wtf

I do think this team is underachieving, even if they are overrated. Also I think the vibe around the clubhouse is terrible right now. A big front office shakeup might be the only answer now. And overhaul the coaching staff

[DelAbbot]

What happened to this team? I had visions of 2015 at the start

[DelAbbot]

This reminds me of thexyear they signed dickey, Cabrera and traded for jose Reyes and eceryone called then world series favourites. They proceeded to **** the bed.

Biggest disappointment for me has been guerrero. Started off on fire just like lastseason, looked like he finally put it all together, and he's just been meh. Second has been manoah, who just imploded. Season sucks.

You forgot about Josh Johnson - we were going to make noise.

[linery88]

I dont think the players like or wanna play for this mgr.His moves suck on offense,and pitching.Players wanna be batting in the same spot.The Tampa 20 lineup won 4 in a row including a Mets sweep on the road,and Vladdy was looking like he was on his way out of his slump.Varsho was doing more damage near the bottom of the lineup,but he looks like he has figured something out regardless of where he bats now,but still 7th is less pressure for him,and we were easier to watch knowing they were trying to use that same 20 run lineup to just win games.Does any other team change their lineup as much as we do?

[Hottie McShotty]

That Luis Arraez is something special! 5 hit game and now batting .400 Wow...

Why can't we develop a player like him?

[Fairview4Life]

That Luis Arraez is something special! 5 hit game and batting .400 Wow...

Why can't we develop a player like him?

Bo’s ok.

[Hottie McShotty]

That Luis Arraez is something special! 5 hit game and batting .400 Wow...

Why can't we develop a player like him?

Bo’s ok.

I guess.

[polo007]

That Luis Arraez is something special! 5 hit game and now batting .400 Wow...

Why can't we develop a player like him?

Luis Arraez was aquired by the Miami Marlins via an offseason trade with the Minnesota Twins.

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[Hottie McShotty]

This team is not going to the playoffs.

[whysoserious]

Last at hitting with RISP. As much as we have seen this team and talked about individuals and pitching, this hitting with RISP has been an ongoing issue with this franchise at various times. These hitters don't know how to switch their approach to cash in runs. They all want to hit 5 run homeruns. Not that they don't try to, but they also just fail to execute.

You watch other teams cash in key runs and this team constantly strikeout or GIDP. It's very frustrating to watch.

[Randle McMurphy]

Fire everyone.

[Hottie McShotty]

why not move vladdy down the lineup? they did it with Bo last season. why is he getting special treatment?

[linery88]

why not move vladdy down the lineup? they did it with Bo last season. why is he getting special treatment?

These are the lineups i want to see them use,because they won with them...won by scoring a lot of runs,and also won without scoring a lot.The players also looked less anxious at the plate,especially after Shullman mentioned it was the second consecutive day they used the same lineup,and they won with it.
George Springer (R) RF
Bo Bichette (R) SS
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (R) 1B
Brandon Belt (L) DH
Matt Chapman (R) 3B
Whit Merrifield (R) 2B
Daulton Varsho (L) LF
Alejandro Kirk (R) C
Kevin Kiermaier (L) CF
-----
George Springer (R) RF
Bo Bichette (R) SS
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (R) DH
Brandon Belt (L) 1B
Matt Chapman (R) 3B
Whit Merrifield (R) 2B
Daulton Varsho (L) LF
Danny Jansen (R) C
Kevin Kiermaier (L) CF
Thats one reason Schneider has to go ...NOW!
He is grasping at straws with these other lineups.You want batters to be consistent,try putting them in consistent spots.

[whysoserious]

Weren't they in consistent spots to start the year and still struggled at various times. I think people make too much of where guys are in the lineup. The root is their approach and failure to execute.

Vladdy had a down year (to an extent compared to almost MVP) last year and worse this year and he's been fairly consistent in the same spot.

[dagger]

I am amazed at all the magical thinkers here who believe firing Schneider will solve everything. I'm more inclined to think it solves nothing.

I mean, lineups are one thing, but this team has the 29th pull rate in MLB and is 5-29 when the pitchers give up four or more runs. That goes a lot deeper than Schneider's lineups. Firing Schneider isn't going to revive Springer, or make Vladdie into 2021 Guerrero Jr. It won't make Chapman any more than he has always tended to be - a meh batter against right handers, albeit with some power but also a high K rate. Even with his huge April, he is a .225/.311./.704 batter against righties, which would be manageable if the Jays were platooning him, but they can't. He destroys left-handers, but too bad there are a lot fewer of those... Don;t get me started on the low leverage end of the bullpen. Schneider has to use those guys, and none of them are the least bit reliable. Much of this is just a repeat/rinse from last season, both under Charlie and now Schneider. The constants include a coaching staff that was assembled for Gibby and/or Charlie. How Guillermo Martinez flies under the radar, immune to criticism is beyond me.

I feel they will fire Schneider to cover their own ass. There will be a short lived surge, and then things will settle back to where they are right now. The Jays, with or without Schneider, can make the playoffs, but with or without him they are not capable of much success in the playoffs, same as last season.

[whysoserious]

I am amazed at all the magical thinkers here who believe firing Schneider will solve everything. I'm more inclined to think it solves nothing.

I mean, lineups are one thing, but this team has the 29th pull rate in MLB and is 5-29 when the pitchers give up four or more runs. That goes a lot deeper than Schneider's lineups. Firing Schneider isn't going to revive Springer, or make Vladdie into 2021 Guerrero Jr. It won't make Chapman any more than he has always tended to be - a meh batter against right handers, albeit with some power but also a high K rate. Even with his huge April, he is a .225/.311./.704 batter against righties, which would be manageable if the Jays were platooning him, but they can't. He destroys left-handers, but too bad there are a lot fewer of those... Don;t get me started on the low leverage end of the bullpen. Schneider has to use those guys, and none of them are the least but reliable. Much of this is just a repeat/rinse from last season, both under Charlie and now Schneider. The constants include a coaching staff that was assembled for Gibby and/pr Charlie. How Guillermo Martinez flies under the radar, immune to criticism is beyond me.

I feel they will fire Schneider to cover their own ass. There will be a short lived surge, and then things will settle back to where they are right now. The Jays, with or without Schneider, can make the playoffs, but with or without him they are not capable of much success in the playoffs, same as last season.

No manager is fixing this, changing guys up an down the lineup isn't fixing this. It's management, they opted for this team. It feels like not only are the Rays and O's far superior to this team, but that the Yankees and Red Sox will rebuild their depth and lap us later on. They're better now but all in the same tier of teams.

Jays have major issues with their approach, training an development.

[linery88]

Weren't they in consistent spots to start the year and still struggled at various times. I think people make too much of where guys are in the lineup. The root is their approach and failure to execute.

Vladdy had a down year (to an extent compared to almost MVP) last year and worse this year and he's been fairly consistent in the same spot.

Throughout this whole season Schneider has been making lineups based on what a guy has done over a 2 or 3 game stretch,and if he has been hot Schneider moves him up in the lineup.He assumes a guy will stay or continue to be hot after he has been moved from where he was when he started getting hot.Its like he thinks he can predict the future,that the guy will stay hot because he has been moved up,so he creates more pressure for that guy to stay hot.He finally made a lineup that put 20 on Tampa in Tampa which is a big deal,then he goes away from it,and loses based on how he has been dealing with his lineups...then he goes back to it again,and beats Verlander in Ny,but then goes away again.I wish he would just stick with a lineup that has worked,and what we have won more than 1 game in a row with.

[Hottie McShotty]

There may be underlying issues within the clubhouse that may be showing in the way they are playing right now. Maybe some players or/and coaches may not be getting along. I'm really puzzled tbh. This team is better than what their record is showing. The grueling stretch from this tough schedule hasnt helped either. The Jays need to take advantage of their weaker schedule coming up heading into all-star break.

[johanliebert]

I said it when Montero was here and i'll say it again, managers don't set the lineups. Those nerds upstairs map out games and set the batting order. Manoah's been the biggest disappointment as well he dug them into a hole early.

[Raps in 4]

I am amazed at all the magical thinkers here who believe firing Schneider will solve everything. I'm more inclined to think it solves nothing.

I mean, lineups are one thing, but this team has the 29th pull rate in MLB and is 5-29 when the pitchers give up four or more runs. That goes a lot deeper than Schneider's lineups. Firing Schneider isn't going to revive Springer, or make Vladdie into 2021 Guerrero Jr. It won't make Chapman any more than he has always tended to be - a meh batter against right handers, albeit with some power but also a high K rate. Even with his huge April, he is a .225/.311./.704 batter against righties, which would be manageable if the Jays were platooning him, but they can't. He destroys left-handers, but too bad there are a lot fewer of those... Don;t get me started on the low leverage end of the bullpen. Schneider has to use those guys, and none of them are the least but reliable. Much of this is just a repeat/rinse from last season, both under Charlie and now Schneider. The constants include a coaching staff that was assembled for Gibby and/pr Charlie. How Guillermo Martinez flies under the radar, immune to criticism is beyond me.

I feel they will fire Schneider to cover their own ass. There will be a short lived surge, and then things will settle back to where they are right now. The Jays, with or without Schneider, can make the playoffs, but with or without him they are not capable of much success in the playoffs, same as last season.

No manager is fixing this, changing guys up an down the lineup isn't fixing this. It's management, they opted for this team. It feels like not only are the Rays and O's far superior to this team, but that the Yankees and Red Sox will rebuild their depth and lap us later on. They're better now but all in the same tier of teams.

Jays have major issues with their approach, training an development.

This coaching staff blows, but all our problems stem from the FO, and by extension, Ed Rogers.

In 21 years as a GM/President, Shapiro's teams have won 2 division titles (1 of those was with an inherited team) and 3 playoff series (2 of those were with an inherited team).

Recall that we fired a guy that took us to the ALCS (and won a WS and 5 division titles with his new team) and replaced him with Shapiro. I said at the time that we'd come to regret that decision, and I was 100% right.

This clown came in and promised us a sustained winner, while chastising his predecessor for depleting the farm at the expense of short-term winning. Fast forward 8 years and Shapiro has depleted the farm at the expense of short-term winning, except we're not winning.