General Blue Jays Thread

Parataxis · Post #2261 » by **Parataxis** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:51 am

IIRC, Bo also didn't accept the Jays offer last year when he was pre-arb, yeah?

Lateral Quicks · Post #2262 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:16 pm

In negotiations, remind Bo that Santiago Espinal - yes, Santiago Espinal - made the all-star team over him.

polo007 · Post #2263 » by **polo007** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:49 pm

Read on Twitter

?

SharoneWright · Post #2264 » by **SharoneWright** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:00 pm

The 2.5M will be a rounding error on his extension offer... The only question is which approach is most likely move the needle in the Jays' favor on that extension.
They could have kept the relationship sunshine an lollipops by agreeing to his 7.5 ask now, but that might empower Bo to keep raising his salary sights. Or, the Jays could establish the fact that they are willing to play hardball now and in the future, thereby risking a soured relationship going into his final years of arbitration and even losing the player in free agency. Shapiro chose the latter.

(spotrac estimated 2023 at 5.7M....)

Edit: Probably the right approach considering we like Vladdy better than Bo (and Vlad's deal will be much bigger). So the message still gets conveyed indirectly to the Vladdy camp that we remain cost-conscious while we never actually battle with Vlad in arbitration.

Post #2265 » by **Schad** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:44 pm

He has every right to file. The arb system is silly, and even $7.5m is vastly below his value. His FA value over the past two years averages out to $38m/year...I find it difficult to get too worked up because he's asking for 20% of that.

guvernator · Post #2266 » by **guvernator** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:40 pm

All signs point to Bo going to Free agency. And with all the laughs fans bad mouthing him incessantly on social media, I wouldn't expect a single cent worth of discount in negotiations.

SharoneWright · Post #2267 » by **SharoneWright** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:50 pm

Schad wrote:He has every right to file. The arb system is silly, and even $7.5m is vastly below his value. His FA value over the past two years averages out to $38m/year...I find it difficult to get too worked up because he's asking for 20% of that.

Of course. It's a rounding error compared to his true value. But we still have to consider setting a posture going into extension-mode with either Bo or Vlad. Showing some resistance is probably appropriate at this point. It's like an early bluff in a poker game, just to put it out there.... Who knows though.

Then again, if their intension is to use Bo for a couple more cheap years and then kick him to the curb when he becomes too expensive, then it also makes sense to not give an inch now. Meanwhile, Vlad is kept happy with a record agreement... (hmm, can we read into that?). Obviously I'm just speculating, and almost as obviously, it's kinda stupid to speculate. lol

Lateral Quicks · Post #2268 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:54 pm

guvernator wrote:All signs point to Bo going to Free agency. And with all the laughs fans bad mouthing him incessantly on social media, I wouldn't expect a single cent worth of discount in negotiations.

I don't think that would be the end of the world, to be honest. He's shaky defensively at SS, and loses value if moved to 2B (if he would even consider that). And I really don't like his offensive approach (hack away) at all and expect it won't age well when he loses his elite bat speed. If I'm handing out a mega deal, I want to be confident the player will be a top tier performer - ideally on both sides of the ball - for most of the term. I'm not confident in that with Bo at all.

Also, I'm not sure it's a great idea to have two massive budget busting mega deals long term on the same team in a league where you need lots of quality depth to win.

All that being said, I have a gut feeling Bo is going to have a monster year upcoming, which will be good for out championship aspirations this year, but bad for the likelihood of keeping him long term.

polo007 · Post #2269 » by **polo007** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:53 pm

Read on Twitter

dagger · Post #2270 » by **dagger** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:37 pm

On social media, there are fans who believe you have to extend everyone no matter what: Extend Vlad, Extend Bo, Extend Chapman, extend, extend, extend. I'm sure if Varsho has a great season we'll be talking about his extension, Berrios is on a long-term deal and you can bet that the team will look to extend Manoah fairly soon. But you can't extend everyone and sign pricey free agents. Some discipline is needed. What is really needed is a deep prospect pipeline so they can peddle away some of the potentially pricey vets (as they did with Teoscar) or let them walk. The thing is, the Jays have expended a lot of prospect capital on trading for major league talent. At a certainly point in time, they have to do like the Astros did and graduate some quality young, cheap talent to the majors and let vets walk (or trade them for prospects). That the Jays haven't been stung badly by prospects traded away (Hoffman, Murphy, etc.) probably says as much about their drafting and development. We'll see how Moreno does with Arizona, but at least dealing him was off a stacked deck of catchers. The Jays have drafted and signed a ton of infield prospects, using high picks and international bonus money. It's time some of that paid off, let's see what Orelvis Martinez and Addison Barger can do at Buffalo because I'm rather jaundiced about giving Matt Chapman mad money that would start in his Age 31 season in 2024.

Randle McMurphy · Post #2271 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:54 pm

It's always been bizarre to me that that fans bash guys for trying to get all they are worth in these sports while they can play them.

The fact that Bichette didn't come to an arbitration is also no real indication that the Jays don't want to extend him long-term in the coming years. I personally would be surprised if they do given his defensive weaknesses, but that has nothing to do with this.

SharoneWright · Post #2272 » by **SharoneWright** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:09 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:It's always been bizarre to me that that fans bash guys for trying to get all they are worth in these sports while they can play them.

The fact that Bichette didn't come to an arbitration is also no real indication that the Jays don't want to extend him long-term in the coming years. I personally would be surprised if they do given his defensive weaknesses, but that has nothing to do with this.

Equally strange that fans bash ownership for trying to control payroll.

It's obvious to some fans that each player's contract affects the team's ability to upgrade other areas of the roster.

So, why would the Jays just give Bo the extra 2.5MILLION he wants this year, and maybe an extra 3.5 MILLION the next year, and maybe an extra 4.5 MILLION the year after that if they have decided they don't want to extend him long term? I'm not saying that they've already decided that. Chances are very good they are keeping all options open, but you raised the possibility... So, if they plan to shoot their wad on Vladdy, recognizing it might be unwise to hitch themselves to another HUGE contract with Bo, then why wouldn't they squeeze him as long as they could, until they move him? You said this has nothing to do with that. Why not? You seem very sure.

Vladdy just got a record arb salary for a 1st baseman with his service time after a "down year"... so they didn't appear to squeeze him. Is it possible, the FO has chosen their horse? Or at least hedging in one direction over the other? Or do front offices just give out whatever contracts to whatever player? Like I said before, some sources peg Bo's 2023 number at 5.7M. The Jays obviously feel saving maybe 1 Million is worth it to them even if they piss Bo off. (They could have easily put their heads together to get something done around 6M). Not the impression you want to leave with a guy you are trying to lock up for 11 years and 250+M anytime soon. Maybe Bo isn't Plan A.

Randle McMurphy · Post #2273 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:27 am

SharoneWright wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:It's always been bizarre to me that that fans bash guys for trying to get all they are worth in these sports while they can play them.

The fact that Bichette didn't come to an arbitration is also no real indication that the Jays don't want to extend him long-term in the coming years. I personally would be surprised if they do given his defensive weaknesses, but that has nothing to do with this.

Chances are very good they are keeping all options open, but you raised the possibility... So, if they plan to shoot their wad on Vladdy, recognizing it might be unwise to hitch themselves to another HUGE contract with Bo, then why wouldn't they squeeze him as long as they could, until they move him? You said this has nothing to do with that. Why not? You seem very sure.

Saying that Bichette not coming to a deal on his arbitration amount is not a real indication of whether the Jays plan to ever extend him isn't a denial of the possibility. Maybe the Jays' apparent willingness to play hardball is such a signal of their future plans with him, but we'll never know the answer to that. It's not exactly unusual for players to proceed to arbitration hearings, nor is it unusual for players after such arbitration hearings to sign long term contracts with the same teams that they once arbitrated with.

Either way, the contract history with Bichette (see below) and the fact the Jays got a deal done with every single other arbitration eligible player in the organization near their projection would suggest this outcome has far more to do with Bichette than the Jays.

Vladdy just got a record arb salary for a 1st baseman with his service time after a "down year"... so they didn't appear to squeeze him. Is it possible, the FO has chosen their horse? Or at least hedging in one direction over the other? Or do front offices just give out whatever contracts to whatever player? Like I said before, some sources peg Bo's 2023 number at 5.7M. The Jays obviously feel saving maybe 1 Million is worth it to them even if they piss Bo off. (They could have easily put their heads together to get something done around 6M). Not the impression you want to leave with a guy you are trying to lock up for 11 years and 250+M anytime soon. Maybe Bo isn't Plan A.

It's a bit of a leap to suggest they are "squeezing" anybody. In all likelihood, Bichette's views about what kind of player he is and what he deserves are similar to what they were last year when he suggested he was an "outlier" and questioned/rejected the Jays' formula (an interesting move that now very much appears to have been made by him/his agent with future arbitration cases in mind as the article below last year suggested). The Jays very well could have tried hard to compromise with him at a middle number near his 6M projection like they did with every other player eligible and he simply refused, with him being again unwilling to stick to a general formula that allegedly "undervalues" him. Given the Jays' track record in arbitration hearings under Shapiro/Atkins, it's also a fair bet they are going to win and save a few million (an amount that may certainly come in handy at some point this season when they are looking to add).

Read on Twitter

Raider917 · Post #2274 » by **Raider917** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:41 pm

is bichette completely refusing to move to second? i would really like to see him play there.

WuTang_OG · Post #2275 » by **WuTang_OG** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:09 pm

Read on Twitter

polo007 · Post #2276 » by **polo007** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:15 pm

Read on Twitter

dagger · Post #2277 » by **dagger** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:17 pm

The Jays may also be in on Junior Arias, another outfielder. Looks like a pivot aaa from signing infielders. Bonilla normally wouldn't get this kind of a bonus, except that his hit tool profiles so well it made him BA's #4 overall prospect. Fangraphs had him at 11, and MLBpipeline has him at 7th. He is athletic with a strong arm, so he might profile as a CF, but it's the bat that is the real attraction.

This is the largest bonus the Jays have ever paid, buffer than Vlad, Orelvis et al, although adjusted for inflation, not so much more. Still, a whopper to right up most of the team's bonus allocation.

dagger · Post #2278 » by **dagger** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:30 pm

Read on Twitter

polo007 · Post #2279 » by **polo007** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:26 pm

Read on Twitter

polo007 · Post #2280 » by **polo007** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:28 pm

2023 MLB International Signing Agreements Tracker - Baseball America

Major League Baseball's international signing period opened on Sunday, Jan. 15.

While players routinely have agreements lined up to sign with clubs multiple years in advance, Jan. 15 is the first date when they can officially sign contracts. Below are are tracking the signing agreements for all 30 teams, with more names we will add throughout the day.

Just like draft picks or major league free agents, none of these agreements are official until a player has signed his contract, completed his physical and been approved by the commissioner's office. Some players will sign their contracts today, while others who have agreements in place will sign their contracts later this week or after that in some cases. The signing period is open until Dec. 15, 2023.

When players do sign their contracts, we will share photos of them throughout the day on our social media pages through Twitter and Instagram.

Toronto Blue Jays ($5,284,000)

Enmanuel Bonilla, OF, Dominican Republic

Andersson Barvosa, LHP, Colombia

Daniel Perez, OF, Cuba

Jarold Montealto, SS, Nicaragua

Juan Diego Rosas, C, Panama

David Guzman, OF, Venezuela

Samuel Colmenares, RHP, Venezuela

Ivan Gomez, C, Venezuela

Sann Omasako, RHP, Brazil

Eduar Gonzalez, LHP, Venezuela

Samuel Acuña, RHP, Venezuela

Adrian Meza, SS, Venezuela