Teoscar traded to Mariners

Brinbe · Post #41 » by **Brinbe** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:56 pm

I don't hate it and I was a big Teo fan. They just better hope the reliever and prospect turn out. Otherwise, I'm sure they already have a plan to replace him. Whether that's Nimmo or someone else.

vaff87 · Post #42 » by **vaff87** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:17 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:

Read on Twitter

It's not a lie if they know the truth.

Proof will be in whatever their subsequent moves are.

TOStateofMind · Post #43 » by **TOStateofMind** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:10 pm

Teo going was inevitable. Gonna be an interesting rest of the off season.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #44 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:42 pm

TOStateofMind wrote:Teo going was inevitable. Gonna be an interesting rest of the off season.

exactly this. he was going one way or another. and he went need to improve the defense in the outfield as well. Jays have moves to make.

vaff87 · Post #45 » by **vaff87** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:56 pm

Relievers are weird, but Swanson had a very impressive season.

Read on Twitter

While Macko seems to have injury and control concerns, his strikeout numbers are very impressive. Over 14 per 9 innings. And given his background, how he literally taught himself how to pitch, it sounds like there’s a lot of room for improvement..

Hottie McShotty · Post #46 » by **Hottie McShotty** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:05 pm

rarefind wrote:Really not liking this deal.

Why not?

We get an elite bullpen arm and a decent prospect in return, and it frees up approximately $19 million for Atkins to work with.

Shouldn't be that hard to get another outfielder anyways. We need an OF who can bat left or switch hit. Brandon Nimmo anyone?

I wasn't a big fan of Teoscar anyways. His lack of hustle on balls hit in the corner and mental lapses on the bases will no longer be a part of this team. Plus we don't get to see all those sunflower seeds go to waste.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #47 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:13 pm

Hottie McShotty wrote:
rarefind wrote:Really not liking this deal.

Why not?

We get an elite bullpen arm and a decent prospect in return, and it frees up approximately $19 million for Atkins to work with.

Shouldn't be that hard to get another outfielder anyways. We need an OF who can bat left or switch hit. Brandon Nimmo anyone?

I wasn't a big fan of Teoscar anyways. His lack of hustle on balls hit in the corner and mental lapses on the bases will no longer be apart of this team. Plus we don't get to see all those sunflower seeds go to waste.

i don't know about Nimmo - probably expecting close to AAV of $23-25M. too expensive?

one year younger than Teo.
but better overall defensively.

Post #48 » by **Schad** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:29 pm

I wasn't too eager to re-sign Teo in the 2023 offseason, given that he'd be 31, is already a high-K/low-BB player, and is probably trending toward being full-time DH. So I'm fine with moving him, and the value here isn't terrible for someone with a single year of team control.

While relievers are volatile, Swanson was absolutely elite last year. He covers all the bases: doesn't give up hard contact, doesn't walk anyone, gets a lot of strikeouts. He's an elite bullpen arm that we'll have under control for three years, and that's valuable. And freeing up money doesn't hurt; whatever our payroll picture, we have a budget, and that budget now involves $12m-ish more to spend.

T-d0t · Post #49 » by **T-d0t** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:30 pm

The jays subreddit is in love with Nimmo

Philip J Fry · Post #50 » by **Philip J Fry** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:36 pm

Agree that Teoscar had to be moved; he wasn't coming back after this year regardless so you try to get value.

But....is it troubling to anyone else that a guy described as "elite" was only used for one inning in this year's playoffs? Seems to me that an elite arm would have seen more action.

polo007 · Post #51 » by **polo007** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:45 pm

Read on Twitter

vaff87 · Post #52 » by **vaff87** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm

Philip J Fry wrote:Agree that Teoscar had to be moved; he wasn't coming back after this year regardless so you try to get value.

But....is it troubling to anyone else that a guy described as "elite" was only used for one inning in this year's playoffs? Seems to me that an elite arm would have seen more action.

Maybe. But the Mariners do have several good relievers, and as we’ve found out, managers aren’t always good at using the right ones.

polo007 · Post #53 » by **polo007** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:04 pm

I have no words to express the gratitude I feel to play and share with great players like you and to play for not only a team but for a great country. Thank you to the Toronto organization for giving me the opportunity to develop as a player, for those great moments we spent together in the great city of Toronto, thank you for what I learned from you, thank you for making Toronto a home for me where I felt part of you and thank you for the great friendship that I was able to establish with you guys. Good luck in what is to come! YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE A GREAT PART OF MY HEART

Edited • 4h

Post #54 » by **Schad** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 pm

On paper, we now have one of the strongest relief groupings in baseball. Romero, Swanson and Bass is an elite back-end, based on 2022 performance. Cimber, Mayza and Garcia forms a very good grouping of medium-leverage arms. And we have plenty of options to fill the final two spots, including Pearson assuming he does not contract boneitis again.

But it's a bullpen, and bullpens are chaos, so who knows. Definitely the best group we'll have entered a season with in forever, though.

Ado05 · Post #55 » by **Ado05** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:23 pm

1 step closer to signing Correa and trading Bo for Acuna :clap:

Michael Bradley · Post #56 » by **Michael Bradley** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:24 pm

I'm fine with the trade. A lot will depend on the follow up to it. The team clearly needs an outfielder and preferably one that can hit in the middle of the lineup (and is left handed hitting). If freeing up that payroll allows the Jays to acquire that sort of player, then this deal will instantly look better. As far as Hernandez, as others have mentioned, he is 30 with a year of expensive control left, and while a very good offensive player, he is not a good defensive player. It's hard to see that type of profile and salary having high trade value. Obviously a lot of this will depend on how Swanson does as well. He had great 2022 numbers and his Statcast numbers look great too, but relievers are relievers. Hard to predict year to year. Seems like he pitched mostly low leverage as the Mariners didn't trust him in higher leverage spots for some reason.

If Nate Pearson actually turns into a useful RP, then I would agree the Jays pen might actually be a strength next season. It's deep and has legitimately good arms that are controllable. They probably don't need to invest too much more in the pen, and can focus on getting a starter, along with another outfielder.

Post #57 » by **Cyrus** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:34 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:At least Swanson is good (elite even) was afraid we did this for Flexen which would've been awful. I assume this is to let us put money into the OF FA pool and move Springer to right.

I'm curious as to for an elite arm, they didn't use him much in the playoffs, he didn't pitch against the jays, and got in just the 13th inning game at Astros.

I know Marines had a good bullpen, but couldn't even get in? Or was he injuried, either version, that is a bit of concern.

Not to mention, the whole track record, and relief pitching is so volatile , and one of the reasons you don't typically trade every day player for someone who comes in 2 or 3 games a week.

But on the other hand, this was clear indication that Teo wasn't part of the jays future, and likely just took the best offer they could get now, rather than maybe wait it out at deadline...

dagger · Post #58 » by **dagger** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:42 pm

It will be interesting to see how long a contract they give an outfielder (unless they trade for one). I'll be watchoing Dasan Brown who will presumably start the season in AA, and if he picks up where he left off at Vancouver, he might make AAA next season. His CF D potential is enormous, it's all about his O from here on in, but I doubt the Jays would give a 30-ish FA a four year deal if they think Brown is the (not so distant) future

Post #59 » by **Schad** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:49 pm

Cyrus wrote:
Madvillainy2004 wrote:At least Swanson is good (elite even) was afraid we did this for Flexen which would've been awful. I assume this is to let us put money into the OF FA pool and move Springer to right.

I'm curious as to for an elite arm, they didn't use him much in the playoffs, he didn't pitch against the jays, and got in just the 13th inning game at Astros.

I know Marines had a good bullpen, but couldn't even get in? Or was he injuried, either there is a bit of concern.

Swanson had two bad outings in a row in September, and with his available options it's possible that led Servais to shy away from him. Now, that'd be pretty dumb; Swanson was a top 12 in reliever fWAR for the year, and 11th in xWOBA, so he was an elite reliever even if he had two bad outings (relievers will always have bad outings, and you probably want to use the guy who had an ERA barely above 1 before those two bad outings).

Ado05 · Post #60 » by **Ado05** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:59 pm

Hard to call him a high leverage reliever when he wasn't used much as one.

Really looks like they got an interesting reliever, more of a medium leverage guy, and got to clear some salary to find a puzzle piece that fits better.

Totally fine deal considering Hernandez is probably not someone you want to extend anyways.