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DFA'd Parsons and called up Espino.. why did Parsons even make the club lol

hst420 wrote:DFA'd Parsons and called up Espino.. why did Parsons even make the club lol

They're doing service time shenanigans with Rodriguez is the reason either of those guys are with us lol

Madvillainy2004 wrote:

hst420 wrote:DFA'd Parsons and called up Espino.. why did Parsons even make the club lol

They're doing service time shenanigans with Rodriguez is the reason either of those guys are with us lol

That's what I thought too but I think Michael Bradley is correct, after digging into it a bit more

Michael Bradley wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:

Michael Bradley wrote:The Jays can option Yariel without his approval in 2024. They cannot do that in 2025-beyond. So that, along with not being stretched out, is likely why he is starting in the minors. He's also a FA after his contract is up regardless of service time (like Gurriel was) so manipulation isn't happening here.

That's not true. Every player's (including international FAs) service time is entirely determined by the # days he played in the MLB, not his contract.

There is no need for approval from your employee. Service clock manipulation has been done by teams on much better and readier prospects

https://www.news10.com/sports/cubs-3b-bryant-no-hard-feelings-on-losing-grievance/

That rule doesn't apply to international players who sign big league contracts. Most (if not all) international big league signings nowadays have the provision that the player can be a FA after the contract ends. Gurriel for example had 5 years of service time after 2023 but was still allowed to be a FA because his 7 year deal with the Jays was over. Rodriguez has the same type of contract. The type of manipulation you are referring to is done to prospects that were drafted or were international (non-MLB contract) signings.

This is from Shi Davidi last month: "His $32-million, five-year contract allows the Blue Jays to option him without his approval this season only (he’ll also be a free agent once the deal expires), an inclusion that demonstrates the need for flexibility with him."

30th in FIP so far this year if our pitching isn't elite we may not win 75 games lol

The asset management of this FO is astoundingly bad. Aside from the prospects we traded for Berrios, all our players were traded for peanuts when they could of net us a much bigger return earlier.

Espinal: All-star but sucked ever since. Traded for essentially nothing.
Manoah: Self-explanatory
Vlad: MVP in 2021 to almost 0 WAR 1st baseman.
Kirk: All-star and top catcher in the league, now hitting .140. Could have kept Moreno and traded him for a much bigger return at the time.
Moreno/Gurriel: Traded for Bradley Zimmer 2.0.
IKF: 15 mil to basically be another DeJong.
KK: I'm ok with it if we don't have Varsho.
Teoscar: All-star hitter and traded for a RP

Asianiac_24 wrote:The asset management of this FO is astoundingly bad. Aside from the prospects we traded for Berrios, all our players were traded for peanuts when they could of net us a much bigger return earlier.

Espinal: All-star but sucked ever since. Traded for essentially nothing.
Manoah: Self-explanatory
Vlad: MVP in 2021 to almost 0 WAR 1st baseman.
Kirk: All-star and top catcher in the league, now hitting .140. Could have kept Moreno and traded him for a much bigger return at the time.
Moreno/Gurriel: Traded for Bradley Zimmer 2.0.
IKF: 15 mil to basically be another DeJong.
KK: I'm ok with it if we don't have Varsho.
Teoscar: All-star hitter and traded for a RP

The more concerning thing is how outside of Bo, they haven't developed a single elite player. Nor have they accumulated prospects that other teams covet to use as trade bait.

Their MO has been to sign 30 year-old FAs and hope for the best.

Asianiac_24 wrote:The asset management of this FO is astoundingly bad. Aside from the prospects we traded for Berrios, all our players were traded for peanuts when they could of net us a much bigger return earlier.

Espinal: All-star but sucked ever since. Traded for essentially nothing.
Manoah: Self-explanatory
Vlad: MVP in 2021 to almost 0 WAR 1st baseman.
Kirk: All-star and top catcher in the league, now hitting .140. Could have kept Moreno and traded him for a much bigger return at the time.
Moreno/Gurriel: Traded for Bradley Zimmer 2.0.
IKF: 15 mil to basically be another DeJong.
KK: I'm ok with it if we don't have Varsho.
Teoscar: All-star hitter and traded for a RP

Not too mention that this team has the 7th highest payroll in MLB, spending into the Luxury Tax at 247 million, just two million shy of world champs Texas. Atkins spent close to 30 million for KK, IKF, and Chad Green for 2024, when that money could have been put to better use. Paul DeJong would have cost a fraction of what IKF would have cost, and because of that signing, Davis Schneider is stapled to the bench. Varsho has been another Bradley Zimmer 2.0, by being so atrocious at the plate.

However, Varsho needed to be in CF for 2024 where his value is greatest, meaning KK should not have been brought back. You needed a better hitting player in LF to complement Varsho's lack of offensive production. A guy like Gurriel is who I would have targetted in free agency (making the same 10 million as KK for 2024). After Kirk's play fell off in the second half of 2022, he was the guy I would have traded and I said it at the time. His value was still high after the 2022 Season coming off an All-Star year, and long-term I had question marks about his fat and his out of shape frame being able to successfully handle the demands of an everyday Catcher in the years ahead instead of Moreno. Moreno was also superior defensively, had 6 more years of team control, the much better athlete, and possessed a cannon of an arm.

If this team is out of it by July, I would be in favour of a mini rebuild but Atkins needs to be shown the door first. 9 years is enough of that guy. Promote James Click from VP of Strategy, then start to shed payroll by trading few of the veterans (Bassitt, Garcia, Gausman, etc.), promote a few of the young guys in AAA, and let guys like Schneider and Clement play everyday. You should also try to get solid assets for Guerrero and Bichette either at the deadline or next off-season, since they are free agents after next year. That would be the worst case scenario if this team is out of it by July and a mini-rebuild is required.

Raps in 4 wrote:

Asianiac_24 wrote:The asset management of this FO is astoundingly bad. Aside from the prospects we traded for Berrios, all our players were traded for peanuts when they could of net us a much bigger return earlier.

Espinal: All-star but sucked ever since. Traded for essentially nothing.
Manoah: Self-explanatory
Vlad: MVP in 2021 to almost 0 WAR 1st baseman.
Kirk: All-star and top catcher in the league, now hitting .140. Could have kept Moreno and traded him for a much bigger return at the time.
Moreno/Gurriel: Traded for Bradley Zimmer 2.0.
IKF: 15 mil to basically be another DeJong.
KK: I'm ok with it if we don't have Varsho.
Teoscar: All-star hitter and traded for a RP

The more concerning thing is how outside of Bo, they haven't developed a single elite player. Nor have they accumulated prospects that other teams covet to use as trade bait.

Their MO has been to sign 30 year-old FAs and hope for the best.

This. Payroll pushing 250m and the best prospect theyve developed was traded for Varsho. Shameful

Have we fired anyone yet? Nope?

Weird.

On the asset management issue, it's interesting to see the Jays finally pushing the drafting and development of purpose built relievers. I mean, they always did some of that, but rarely with draft positions as high as say, rounds 5-7. Dating back to Marcus Stroman under AA, the team tried to turn some projected relievers into starters. They succeeded with Stroman, failed with Pearson. Ultimately, they had to trade for relievers, which costs them more in money and talent (think Teoscar for Swanson, but Eric still is paid more than a player on an entry salary). Now, this year, they seem to be relying on prospects for high leverage relief in the minors. Hagen Danner and Connor Cooke at Buffalo, Jimmy Burnette at NH, all have high leverage profiles. Danner, of course, is a converted catcher, but Cooke and Burnette were strictly college relievers and have remained so. Another interesting reliever is Mason Fluharty, who has sped through the system to Buffalo, and can probably be described as a mid-leverage type like Trevor Richards. TJ Brock is interesting as well, but currently on the injured list with elbow soreness.

dagger wrote:On the asset management issue, it's interesting to see the Jays finally pushing the drafting and development of purpose built relievers. I mean, they always did some of that, but rarely with draft positions as high as say, rounds 5-7. Dating back to Marcus Stroman under AA, the team tried to turn some projected relievers into starters. They succeeded with Stroman, failed with Pearson. Ultimately, they had to trade for relievers, which costs them more in money and talent (think Teoscar for Swanson, but Eric still is paid more than a player on an entry salary). Now, this year, they seem to be relying on prospects for high leverage relief in the minors. Hagen Danner and Connor Cooke at Buffalo, Jimmy Burnette at NH, all have high leverage profiles. Danner, of course, is a converted catcher, but Cooke and Burnette were strictly college relievers and have remained so. Another interesting reliever is Mason Fluharty, who has sped through the system to Buffalo, and can probably be described as a mid-leverage type like Trevor Richards. TJ Brock is interesting as well, but currently on the injured list with elbow soreness.

Relievers are so hit and miss - this is a questionable strategy. It seems we can’t develop position players or starting pitchers so may as well give it a shot.

bluerap23 wrote:

dagger wrote:On the asset management issue, it's interesting to see the Jays finally pushing the drafting and development of purpose built relievers. I mean, they always did some of that, but rarely with draft positions as high as say, rounds 5-7. Dating back to Marcus Stroman under AA, the team tried to turn some projected relievers into starters. They succeeded with Stroman, failed with Pearson. Ultimately, they had to trade for relievers, which costs them more in money and talent (think Teoscar for Swanson, but Eric still is paid more than a player on an entry salary). Now, this year, they seem to be relying on prospects for high leverage relief in the minors. Hagen Danner and Connor Cooke at Buffalo, Jimmy Burnette at NH, all have high leverage profiles. Danner, of course, is a converted catcher, but Cooke and Burnette were strictly college relievers and have remained so. Another interesting reliever is Mason Fluharty, who has sped through the system to Buffalo, and can probably be described as a mid-leverage type like Trevor Richards. TJ Brock is interesting as well, but currently on the injured list with elbow soreness.

Relievers are so hit and miss - this is a questionable strategy. It seems we can’t develop position players or starting pitchers so may as well give it a shot.

Nothing is hit and miss if you draft well, so I don't buy that at all. If you have to pay Garcia $6 million to be your 7th inning man, you have missed the plot. Not that he's bad, but signing $6 million middle relievers is a way to run up payroll without achieving real contention. The good teams trot out cheap relievers who are actually good so they can put their money elsewhere. I also think the Jays are developing position players - finally - but do they have the stones to actually bring them up and rely on them? They are invested in certain veterans who they have signed as FAs, or worse, traded a great prospect for. But I doubt Atkins has the balls to walk away from them even if they suck donkey balls all year.

Jansen hit a grand slam in Buffalo, so that's a positive. Buffalo now 7-3 to start the season.

Rodriguez getting called up. Looks like he will get a start over Francis next go round.

With Romano and Swanson coming back, Pearson's been optioned back down to Buffalo, and Mitch White is getting DFAed.

How likely is it that somebody picks him up and we say goodbye?

The Glorious Mitch White era is over.
Traded to Giants for cash.

Keegan Matheson made what I thought was a good point yesterday. The play of the Buffalo prospects - Horwitz, Martinez and Barger – may soon spark a debate whether the Jays have the 13 best position players they control at the major league level. I can't easily see a fit for Horwitz, and maybe after we wrap our season's games against the White Sox in three weeks there might be a home for him in Chicago, but the Martinez/Barger situation is very intriguing. Martinez is turning into a top 50 or top 30 prospect, with a power tool this team badly needs. But he only plays one position and not especially well (though not epically bad either). Barger has a lot more flexibility in the field, a power throwing arm ideally suited for 3B or RF, not quite the power tool as Martinez but possibly a better hit tool with lots of .BARISP to like (10 doubles and 21 RBIs so far). Martinez is a righthand hitter, Barger a lefthand hitter. The question is how long management will wait for an injury to give each a taste of the majors, or how long can it wait before it is forced to confront the necessity to find other homes for current roster players who don't utterly stink and could help other (bad) teams but whose departure might be seen as an indictment of a bad off-season signing decision or a slight to a valued veteran. A case could be made to DFA Vogelbach, because he hardly gets a chance to hit, was a spring training signee, but that is also a concern because you don't want, say, Martinez to hit just a few times a week, and neither he nor Barger are needed at 1B. You also need DH days for Turner, Spring, Vlad, a catcher, etc.

I think come mid-May, this debate is going to really heat up. The top of the order guys like Springer, Vlad and Bo who are under-performing are also helping speed us to this question of how/when to goose the offence. This team is 12-0 when kt holds the opponent to four runs and 0-10 when they yield five runs. This isn't sustainable.

Varsho is about to pass Vlads 2023 fWAR total in a few games lol

Winning####

>>trade/realease: George Springer, Daniel Vogelbach, IKF

>>promote/add: Orelvis Mrtinez, Addison Barger, Spencer Horowitz

NEW TEAM

1B: Vlad
2B:Barger
SS: Martinez
3B: Clement
LF: Schneider
CF: Varsho
RF: Bichette
C: Jano

4th OF: Keirmaier
Utility: Biggio
Lefty off the bench and backup at 1st: Horowitz

They all hit. They all hungry.

Your worst defender no longer plays SS.