Solve the Jays catching dilemma: Who gets traded (eventually)?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

if you want to get a top notch pitcher, probably Moreno.

Did you consider Jose Berrios top notch pitcher before this season? Moreno is a sure thing with his defense and contact hitting abilities alone - not trading that for a much more volatile commodity i.e. pitcher.

I thoought maybe a top 3 with Ace stuff. but consistency and maturity is still expected from him. would not be surprised if he had a bounce back year.

Moreno is not a sure thing yet and thats the problem. Someone else can overpay for his potential. I like Moreno and would trade Kirk away if that was a possibility - if the return was similar. a veteran team would probably prefer Kirk over Moreno, and an up and comig team would probably prefer Moreno. Kirk would probably land us prospects where as Moreno probably a potential ace.

[bluerap23]

if you want to get a top notch pitcher, probably Moreno.

Did you consider Jose Berrios top notch pitcher before this season? Moreno is a sure thing with his defense and contact hitting abilities alone - not trading that for a much more volatile commodity i.e. pitcher.

I thoought maybe a top 3 with Ace stuff. but consistency and maturity is still expected from him. would not be surprised if he had a bounce back year.

Moreno is not a sure thing yet and thats the problem. Someone else can overpay for his potential. I like Moreno and would trade Kirk away if that was a possibility - if the return was similar. a veteran team would probably prefer Kirk over Moreno, and an up and comig team would probably prefer Moreno. Kirk would probably land us prospects where as Moreno probably a potential ace.

Probably targeting a more cost controlled option to replace Stripling. If they can get a #3 with 2 years left before FA that will save them a ton.

[Raps in 4]

if you want to get a top notch pitcher, probably Moreno.

Did you consider Jose Berrios top notch pitcher before this season? Moreno is a sure thing with his defense and contact hitting abilities alone - not trading that for a much more volatile commodity i.e. pitcher.

I thoought maybe a top 3 with Ace stuff. but consistency and maturity is still expected from him. would not be surprised if he had a bounce back year.

Moreno is not a sure thing yet and thats the problem. Someone else can overpay for his potential. I like Moreno and would trade Kirk away if that was a possibility - if the return was similar. a veteran team would probably prefer Kirk over Moreno, and an up and comig team would probably prefer Moreno. Kirk would probably land us prospects where as Moreno probably a potential ace.

Kirk is only a year older than Moreno. He's turning 24 in a month. Moreno turns 23 in 3 months.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Did you consider Jose Berrios top notch pitcher before this season? Moreno is a sure thing with his defense and contact hitting abilities alone - not trading that for a much more volatile commodity i.e. pitcher.

I thoought maybe a top 3 with Ace stuff. but consistency and maturity is still expected from him. would not be surprised if he had a bounce back year.

Moreno is not a sure thing yet and thats the problem. Someone else can overpay for his potential. I like Moreno and would trade Kirk away if that was a possibility - if the return was similar. a veteran team would probably prefer Kirk over Moreno, and an up and comig team would probably prefer Moreno. Kirk would probably land us prospects where as Moreno probably a potential ace.

Kirk is only a year older than Moreno. He's turning 24 in a month. Moreno turns 23 in 3 months.

one has MLB experience one doesn't.

[DelAbbot]

I thoought maybe a top 3 with Ace stuff. but consistency and maturity is still expected from him. would not be surprised if he had a bounce back year.

Moreno is not a sure thing yet and thats the problem. Someone else can overpay for his potential. I like Moreno and would trade Kirk away if that was a possibility - if the return was similar. a veteran team would probably prefer Kirk over Moreno, and an up and comig team would probably prefer Moreno. Kirk would probably land us prospects where as Moreno probably a potential ace.

Kirk is only a year older than Moreno. He's turning 24 in a month. Moreno turns 23 in 3 months.

one has MLB experience one doesn't.

Moreno's catching abilities and throwing to 2B are going to be elite. Then you add his speed and contact hitting - just cannot trade Moreno. We got to keep both Kirk and Moreno - so Jano gotta go.

[wamco]

I ran some mlb trade value trades if jays were to decide to look to the future and use Jansen as a chip to get
Some blue chip prospects at P or OF.

Well here is what BBTV comes in at for fair value for teams rumored to be interested in catching.


Walker (stl) and Moreno both come in at 61.

Jansen 27 for graceffo 19 (sp 55 future value) and Baez (OF they hope can stick in CF but a ways away future value 45)

Kirk 39 for graceffo 19 and Burleson 16.5 (OF 55 future value). Both should be in mlb this year

Here are the page links-

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardin...-walker-691023

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardin...raceffo-700669

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardin...ua-baez-695491

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardin...urleson-676475



I don’t see a match with Houston unless a swap of hunter brown (28) for Jansen (27) could happen

Brewers line up for Jansen (27) for frelick (cf 55 future value (23) and a sp ( gasser/small ) (3)

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/brewer...frelick-686217

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/brewer...-gasser-688107

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/brewer...n-small-663629

Cubs have their top 3 prospects per mlb.com as OF with values approaching Jansen (27). (26.5, 25, 19) all with 55 FV. For fun throw Simeon woods Richardson back in (5).

[Schad]

As much as I like Jansen, I do think that those trade value sites vastly overrate him, because while his projected numbers are very good, the low number of games he has played over the course of his career, and his inconsistency, will decrease his trade value. I'd be beyond shocked if two years of Jansen was worth, as an example, a top 50 prospect like Jasson Dominguez.

Still, he is unquestionably the obvious choice to move. Moreno/Kirk swapping between C/DH makes sense, and Jansen is too good (and too expensive, likely) to keep in a part-time role, and he should fetch a good return.

[wamco]

Ross move would be extending jansen and trading One of kirk/Moreno.
He’s come around to trading top prospects but will always be risk adverse to the core so In that scenario, I see him selling high on Moreno.
His value on that site is 61, Danny (27), kirk (39). So if anywhere close to reality, I could see Ross salivating at that value.
Ideal world, extend Jansen, trade Moreno for carroll, trade teo for a back end bp piece with control, sign rodon and Brantley.
That fits the rumor of having about 20m to add to payroll.

[Schad]

Ross move would be extending jansen and trading One of kirk/Moreno.
He’s come around to trading top prospects but will always be risk adverse to the core so In that scenario, I see him selling high on Moreno.
His value on that site is 61, Danny (27), kirk (39). So if anywhere close to reality, I could see Ross salivating at that value.
Ideal world, extend Jansen, trade Moreno for carroll, trade teo for a back end bp piece with control, sign rodon and Brantley.
That fits the rumor of having about 20m to add to payroll.

I don't think those values are particularly close to reality.

Also, if they were, the cost of extending Jansen would necessarily be extremely expensive: if you're assuming that he's worth X runs per season, it should be assumed that his extension will be for a player that adds X runs per season. Which is a sum far greater than we're likely to pay for a backup catcher.

[wamco]

Ya who knows, far from perfect but a starting place.
5/50 to 2016-2021 for Jansen. Is that closer to what he asks for or what jays offer ?

[SharoneWright]

Off topic,,, BUT

Jays really need to extend Vlad NOW. You can't be the Leafs and sign Nylander (or Tavares for that matter) first before either Matthews or Marner.

Once we have Vlad and know his financial commitment/constraints... it make it much easier to decide who to trade (catchers or short stops ), how much money is in the kitty, where do we allocate our resources, what's the exact timeline, etc..... The plan crystallizes.

I know Vlad didn't perform up to standard last year (maybe a small blessing in negotiating the extension), but this should have been handled long ago. Even if you end up with a slight overpay, it clarifies what else you might want to do.

[linery88]

MLB Hotstove today likes all of our catchers,and speculation is we may get rid of Moreno,and get a good lefthanded bat or pitcher of note...sooner rather than later with Strip leaving.he key word being.....may.

[ItsDanger]

Trade Moreno, his game experience behind the plate isn't MLB level. Has highest trade value. Jansen not going to get you much on the market. He'll likely be an excellent catcher but timeline doesn't quite match up. You need to strike now.

[Balki-B]

It doesn’t look like Jansen will be traded for fair value unless there is an injury to a contending team. As a consolation, I’m of the belief that Jansen gets moved for minor league prospect(s) to lessen current salary demands on the major league roster. Rogers has thus far shown a desire to spend during this iteration’s cycle, but I imagine being a salary tax team is only acceptable if the club is ready to announce they are an absolute top contender rather than the tier below.

[anj]

Have we traded established talent for prospects under Atkins? Don't see it happening now. Either way, I vote we keep Moreno. Obviously, he holds the most value, but it's for a reason.

[Madvillainy2004]

I think it'd he a massive waste if we don't use one of the catchers to establish a postion of need next year.

[SharoneWright]

Moreno. Definitely Moreno. For Daulton Varsho.

[Kurtz]

Ross move would be extending jansen and trading One of kirk/Moreno.
He’s come around to trading top prospects but will always be risk adverse to the core so In that scenario, I see him selling high on Moreno.
His value on that site is 61, Danny (27), kirk (39). So if anywhere close to reality, I could see Ross salivating at that value.
Ideal world, extend Jansen, trade Moreno for carroll, trade teo for a back end bp piece with control, sign rodon and Brantley.
That fits the rumor of having about 20m to add to payroll.

Pretty good predictions.

[wamco]

Wow, look at me! Throw enough crap against the wall and occasionally some sticks!
I changed my mind everyday as best course of action. Can only imagine Atkins sleepless nights. I was under impression 20m to spend when it appears 30m was there (more after clearing teo 14m)

Carroll wasn’t happening (varsho instead) but rodon and brantley instead of Bassit and kiermier would have interesting path