Blue Jays 23/24 Offseason Thread

[Raptors Realtor]

With The Reds probably declining Vottos final year what's the likelihood that he comes to Toronto I a 1 year deal that's around what Belt got? I know the average has taken a major cliff dive and he hasn't been the healthiest but he still has some pop in the bat and I think might be motivated to play for Toronto.

Seen a stupid article that said Toronto should take Anthony Redon with Trout for Manoah, Ricky Tiedemann one of Vladdy or Bichette and Davis Schneider plus a mid tier prospect. Trout is Trout but Rendon is awful especially his deal. Plus does Trout even want to go to Toronto?

The Jays aren't giving a guy who hasn't even been an average hitter since 2021 what Brandon Belt got (1 year/10M). He's hit .204 over the last two seasons. Votto might get a 1 year deal or minor league deal from somebody to be a bench/pinch hitter type but I can't imagine it will be the Jays given that Vlad is gonna take up a ton of 1B/DH ABs.

I'd also take that Trout deal in a second (especially if it was Vlad going instead of Bichette). Trout is worth more than all of those guys put together.

I get Trout is but Rendon drags his value back your looking at $38 million a year over the next 3 years for a 52, 58,47 and 43 games over the last 4 years also with his high being 9 HR. Trout isn't waiving his no trade clause to come here anyways. The article I seen said Philly as a dark horse because of his love of the Eagles and he's a Jersey kid. I don't see what Philly could realistically give up

I wouldn't do that Trout deal... That's way too much going out. He's obviously an amazing player, but he's going to be 33 and has some serious durability issues the past few years, not to mention his contract runs till he's 40. Don't even get me started on Rendon on that contract, and his durability issues.

[polo007]

Olney: Toronto Blue Jays reaching ‘tipping point’ on Vladimir Guerrero’s future | TSN.ca

The Toronto Blue Jays’ Game 2 elimination against the Minnesota Twins was a microcosm of their 2023 season as poor base running, a lack of timely hitting, and poor bullpen management resulted in a second consecutive sweep in the wild-card series.

The game will be remembered for two events: the removal of starter Jose Berrios after just 47 pitches and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. getting picked off at second base with Bo Bichette at the plate to end a potential fifth-inning rally.

ESPN MLB Insider Buster Olney discussed Guerrero Jr. on TSN’s First Up on Tuesday, explaining that, with just two more seasons before he becomes an unrestricted free agent, the Blue Jays are reaching a critical decision point on the slugger's future with the club.

“Vlad, with his salary climbing through arbitration, is reaching the tipping point,” said Olney. “This is where teams begin to say, ‘We can start to replace this.’ I do think this is going to be the winter where you can start to have this conversation as he starts to near free agency.”

The 24-year-old first baseman made $14.5 million last season and will likely see a raise in his third year of arbitration despite a disappointing season at the plate where he hit just .264 with 26 home runs. Olney compared Guerrero’s situation to that of 2019 MVP Cody Bellinger and his eventual exit from the Los Angeles Dodgers.

While Guerrero did not reach the lows that Bellinger did in his final season with the Dodgers, when he hit just .210 with 19 home runs and 68 RBI in 2022, Olney said that Guerrero’s one-dimensional skill set is a significant factor the Blue Jays will need to consider when deciding his future in Toronto.

The Dodgers let Bellinger walk and he had a resurgent season with the Chicago Cubs, hitting .307 with 29 homers and 97 RBI. With the Jays in approaching a similar crossroad, Olney said the Blue Jays cannot let Guerrero Jr. walk for nothing if they are unwilling to commit to a long-term contract. While he did not say the club is actively trying to trade the first baseman, Olney did say that Guerrero’s performance over the past two seasons has created a difficult decision for the future of the once generational prospect.

“If you aren’t going to sign him to a big, massive contract, you don’t want him to walk away and get nothing in return,” said Olney. “You want to make sure you get some value in return, 75 cents on the dollar or whatever it is, if you don’t feel like you’re going to invest in him. Based on what happened the past couple of years, it would be pretty hard to throw $150 million at him.”

[duppyy]

So now they are saying James Click is the reason for pulling Berrios lol, this team is messed up.

[Parataxis]

So now they are saying James Click is the reason for pulling Berrios lol, this team is messed up.

Atkins wants to blame anybody but himself.

[Raptors Realtor]

So now they are saying James Click is the reason for pulling Berrios lol, this team is messed up.

Atkins wants to blame anybody but himself.

I mean if you're going to blame anyone, who better than the likely incumbent GM, if your seat is feeling hot.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

[Mehar]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

I would go nowhere near Bellinger on a long-term deal. People forget how terrible he was in the previous three seasons, and the Dodgers just let him go for nothing. He did have a career bounce back year, but I would be hesitant to throw big money at him for a few reasons. I would just go with Varsho in CF, and he hopes he can at least be a league average bat in 2024. On the positive side, the Jays do have almost 60 million coming off the books by not bringing back any of their free agents. So, with that money, they have the ability to add some free agents who can be a help to this terrible 2023 Offense.

So, I would consider signing Teoscar Hernandez to be my DH if the price is reasonable (around 3 year 50-55 million range). He had similar numbers to Vlad this year, and was one of the best hitters in baseball for 6-7 weeks. He only had one really bad month, and was decent in the others. He would be signed strictly as DH, with the occasional RF if need be. I would also consider signing Gurriel to be my Left Fielder. He did have a solid first half where he was an All-Star, and defensively was okay overall this year. He was also decent with the bat (.261 BA, 24 HRS, 82 RBI, .772 OPS).

Unfortunately, this free agent class is not very deep. Signing Gurriel and Hernandez would not be my first choices if there were other viable names available. Also, the Jays have a bottom-tier farm system, so you do not have real assets to trade to acquire a starting Left Fielder. I would also sign Gurriel if the price was reasonable also. I would have Schneider/Biggio/Martinez/ Barger compete for the starting Second Base/Third Base jobs for next year. However, I would also consider signing a guy like Evan Longoria to play 3rd Base. He is not the All-Star player he once was, but could serve a role like Keirmaier did this year, by providing very good defense at 3rd Base.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

I would go nowhere near Bellinger on a long-term deal. People forget how terrible he was in the previous three seasons, and the Dodgers just let him go for nothing. He did have a career bounce back year, but I would be hesitant to throw big money at him for a few reasons. I would just go with Varsho in CF, and he hopes he can at least be a league average bat in 2024. On the positive side, the Jays do have almost 60 million coming off the books by not bringing back any of their free agents. So, with that money, they have the ability to add some free agents who can be a help to this terrible 2023 Offense.

So, I would consider signing Teoscar Hernandez to be my DH if the price is reasonable (around 3 year 50-55 million range). He had similar numbers to Vlad this year, and was one of the best hitters in baseball for 6-7 weeks. He only had one really bad month, and was decent in the others. He would be signed strictly as DH, with the occasional RF if need be. I would also consider signing Gurriel to be my Left Fielder. He did have a solid first half where he was an All-Star, and defensively was okay overall this year. He was also decent with the bat (.261 BA, 24 HRS, 82 RBI, .772 OPS).

Unfortunately, this free agent class is not very deep. Signing Gurriel and Hernandez would not be my first choices if there were other viable names available. Also, the Jays have a bottom-tier farm system, so you do not have real assets to trade to acquire a starting Left Fielder. I would also sign Gurriel if the price was reasonable also. I would have Schneider/Biggio/Martinez/ Barger compete for the starting Second Base/Third Base jobs for next year. However, I would also consider signing a guy like Evan Longoria to play 3rd Base. He is not the All-Star player he once was, but could serve a role like Keirmaier did this year, by providing very good defense at 3rd Base.

ya i also think that Atkins said, paraphrasing him, that noone is coming back? which seems rediculous for a GM to say at the outset of a miserable playoff run. I still think they resign Chapman if anything...

ya this offseason seems like its internal growth time if no vets work out, which isn't a bad thing.

[Mr Swagtastic]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

I think it's the case of just a great playoff team in Philly. Harper just goes into another grear especially when he's playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Personally I wouldn't go near Cody Bellinger on a long term deal. He's probably going to get overpaid. He's also playing the same position as Vladdy and if he plays CF that means Varsho is again going to play LF.

[Fairview4Life]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

I think it's the case of just a great playoff team in Philly. Harper just goes into another grear especially when he's playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Personally I wouldn't go near Cody Bellinger on a long term deal. He's probably going to get overpaid. He's also playing the same position as Vladdy and if he plays CF that means Varsho is again going to play LF.

Varsho will be in CF.

[Mr Swagtastic]

so.... Jays couldn't get it done with some of the worst offense we have seen in years and the Braves couldn't do **** with the best offense in the majors this year.

playoffs is **** show lol

what can the jays do in terms of personnel moves that can help them ensure playoff success next year. they are missing 3B and LF. internal promotions? whats out there that can at least help them through the season when it comes to bats?

Cody Bellinger, if he opts out, out of price range ? left field / lefty bat with pop. ^ funny enough with the quote from Polo007

Barger or Martinez at 3B?

I think it's the case of just a great playoff team in Philly. Harper just goes into another grear especially when he's playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Personally I wouldn't go near Cody Bellinger on a long term deal. He's probably going to get overpaid. He's also playing the same position as Vladdy and if he plays CF that means Varsho is again going to play LF.

Varsho will be in CF.

Who is going to play CF? Springer probably is better at RF at this point. KK looks like he's going to ring chase.

[Fairview4Life]

I think it's the case of just a great playoff team in Philly. Harper just goes into another grear especially when he's playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Personally I wouldn't go near Cody Bellinger on a long term deal. He's probably going to get overpaid. He's also playing the same position as Vladdy and if he plays CF that means Varsho is again going to play LF.

Varsho will be in CF.

Who is going to play CF? Springer probably is better at RF at this point. KK looks like he's going to ring chase.

Varsho. Even if we signed Bellinger.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Varsho will be in CF.

Who is going to play CF? Springer probably is better at RF at this point. KK looks like he's going to ring chase.

Varsho. Even if we signed Bellinger.

Sorry my brain read your post as Varsho won't be in CF. Yeah I agree Varsho is probably best used as a CF with his speed and defense. Bellinger is probably going to The Yankees

[Hottie McShotty]

It's difficult for me to envision how our team can address its shortcomings and improve for the upcoming season. The FA market will be thin as we have too many holes to fill. In my opinion, this team will decline next year. The Yankees and the Red Sox will improve, while Baltimore and Tampa Bay are better than us and will be competitive again. I can foresee us finishing last in the division and selling off our veterans, as this could be the beginning of another rebuilding phase under this ownership.

[Fairview4Life]

It's difficult for me to envision how our team can address its shortcomings and improve for the upcoming season. The FA market will be thin as we have too many holes to fill. In my opinion, this team will decline next year. The Yankees and the Red Sox will improve, while Baltimore and Tampa Bay are better than us and will be competitive again. I can foresee us finishing last in the division and selling off our veterans, as this could be the beginning of another rebuilding phase under this ownership.

We improve if Varsho and Kirk in particular don’t hit like ass for 3 months. Martinez replaces Chapman. Tiedmann joins the rotation. Vladdy remembers how to hit fastballs. Manoah isn’t the worst pitcher in baseball out of nowhere. That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure more stuff will come up over the off-season. The teams path to offensive improvement in isn’t really some impossible mountain.

[Cyrus]

It's difficult for me to envision how our team can address its shortcomings and improve for the upcoming season. The FA market will be thin as we have too many holes to fill. In my opinion, this team will decline next year. The Yankees and the Red Sox will improve, while Baltimore and Tampa Bay are better than us and will be competitive again. I can foresee us finishing last in the division and selling off our veterans, as this could be the beginning of another rebuilding phase under this ownership.

We improve if Varsho and Kirk in particular don’t hit like ass for 3 months. Martinez replaces Chapman. Tiedmann joins the rotation. Vladdy remembers how to hit fastballs. Manoah isn’t the worst pitcher in baseball out of nowhere. That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure more stuff will come up over the off-season. The teams path to offensive improvement in isn’t really some impossible mountain.

That might all happen, but also don't expect our starting pitchers to be in the best in baseball. There is definitely going to be fall off. Will Yusei be last year version or two years ago? He was starting to b falter in the last month or so. Same with Guasman, he wasn't as sharp after all star break, is that trend due to getting older or just tiredness?

Nor our bullpen, which is why it'd been nice I take advantage when we had 4 starting pitchers pitch better than most top 3 rotations and so was our bullpen.

I think our hitting with risp will be better (i mean it can't get worse can it?), but I also think our pitching will drop off. The question is will that balance out or one go more than other.

Also none of our starting pitchers got injuried, what are the chances that will happen again or even our bullpen other than Romero random back and nail issues

[Fairview4Life]

None of them got injured, but one went from the all star game to being the worst pitcher in baseball.

[Cyrus]

None of them got injured, but one went from the all star game to being the worst pitcher in baseball.

'

Too me those things will always happen with Pitchers, just like Berrios last year looked like a scrub, and this year looked better than ever. I mean what was Jose in 2022, by the sounds of people on here, he was one the worst pitchers in baseball?

Same with Yusei, legitimately this guy shouldn't been throwing starter pitches in 2022, and was talk about should we just eat his contract and waive him, or make him a very expensive bullpen arm, but he came out of no where to look pretty decent to good.

Pitching especially to me, unless you have HOF, is always so volatile, which would been nice even having an allstar go to worst pitcher in baseball, to take advantage of that, because I just don't see 4 pitchers next year having the same good year or escaping injuries, even if Alec Manoah comes back to his old form.

[Duffman100]

None of them got injured, but one went from the all star game to being the worst pitcher in baseball.

'

Too me those things will always happen with Pitchers, just like Berrios last year looked like a scrub, and this year looked better than ever. I mean what was Jose in 2022, by the sounds of people on here, he was one the worst pitchers in baseball?

Same with Yusei, legitimately this guy shouldn't been throwing starter pitches in 2022, and was talk about should we just eat his contract and waive him, or make him a very expensive bullpen arm, but he came out of no where to look pretty decent to good.

Pitching especially to me, unless you have HOF, is always so volatile, which would been nice even having an allstar go to worst pitcher in baseball, to take advantage of that, because I just don't see 4 pitchers next year having the same good year or escaping injuries, even if Alec Manoah comes back to his old form.

This makes missing out on this seasons pitching performances (other than Manoah) really tough to swallow.

[Raptors Realtor]

None of them got injured, but one went from the all star game to being the worst pitcher in baseball.

'

Too me those things will always happen with Pitchers, just like Berrios last year looked like a scrub, and this year looked better than ever. I mean what was Jose in 2022, by the sounds of people on here, he was one the worst pitchers in baseball?

Same with Yusei, legitimately this guy shouldn't been throwing starter pitches in 2022, and was talk about should we just eat his contract and waive him, or make him a very expensive bullpen arm, but he came out of no where to look pretty decent to good.

Pitching especially to me, unless you have HOF, is always so volatile, which would been nice even having an allstar go to worst pitcher in baseball, to take advantage of that, because I just don't see 4 pitchers next year having the same good year or escaping injuries, even if Alec Manoah comes back to his old form.

I presume the pitch clock had quite an impact on players. Helped some and hindered others on both sides of the field. The increased pace helped those who were in better shape, and hindered those who weren't. Players weren't able to go at their own pace in between pitches, adjust batting gloves between every pitch, or walk around the mound and play with the rosin bag, etc... Will guys who had career low seasons this year come back next season in better shape, or will it just be chalked up to an off year?