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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:13 am
by Parataxis
rarefind wrote:Parataxis wrote:rarefind wrote:There are no ethics in sports or big business.
While you can't make someone sign with you who never intended to, we now have two black eyes. One from the WC series and now this debacle. Rational thought doesn't blame a front office after this but we got played... badly. That certainly is not something to write home about.
At least we have some nice renos but too bad most people won't be able to justify the ticket cost to watch a mid baseball team. I'm worried as we are now in desperation mode and I feel like we are going to do something really dumb now to sell some tickets. Good thing we have Ross Atkins at the helm.
I really don't understand how the Jays have a 'black eye' from this. We didn't sign Ohtani - but neither did 28 other teams. And being used 'as leverage' didn't cost us anything. We're no worse off now than we would have been had Friday never happened, and Ohtani signed with the Dodgers for 600MM instead.
It's a nothingburger.
No, it isn't a nothing burger. You are coming at this from the perspective of our front office and ownership and I understand that. Share your sentiment with the average fan and they will disagree.
No, I'm coming at it from the perspective of myself, an average fan. One who goes to maybe 6-8 games a year and the occasional road trip as an excuse to see another city.
Do I wish we'd signed Ohtani? Yeah, duh.
But given that we didn't, am I glad that we tried for it? Also, yeah.
Like, you don't win them all. There's 30 teams, more FAs (including more 'top FAs') are going to sign with other teams that will sign with the Jays. That's just life.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:13 am
by polo007
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:19 am
by Cyrus
If Othani was seriously considering us, we had the highest offer, until Dodgers came and match or beat offer, anyone thinking we had like 10-600 or 12 - 600+ mill deal, and Dodgers decide yeah we gonna beat the 100 mill is crazy. it was likely the same-ish offer.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:06 am
by polo007
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 1:58 pm
by WuTang_OG
bellinger's partner is definitely trolling after what happened friday lol that pic was taken in the summer
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:43 pm
by rarefind
Parataxis wrote:rarefind wrote:Parataxis wrote:
I really don't understand how the Jays have a 'black eye' from this. We didn't sign Ohtani - but neither did 28 other teams. And being used 'as leverage' didn't cost us anything. We're no worse off now than we would have been had Friday never happened, and Ohtani signed with the Dodgers for 600MM instead.
It's a nothingburger.
No, it isn't a nothing burger. You are coming at this from the perspective of our front office and ownership and I understand that. Share your sentiment with the average fan and they will disagree.
No, I'm coming at it from the perspective of myself, an average fan. One who goes to maybe 6-8 games a year and the occasional road trip as an excuse to see another city.
Do I wish we'd signed Ohtani? Yeah, duh.
But given that we didn't, am I glad that we tried for it? Also, yeah.
Like, you don't win them all. There's 30 teams, more FAs (including more 'top FAs') are going to sign with other teams that will sign with the Jays. That's just life.
You are an average fan that posts on the Toronto Blue Jays RealGM forum?
There are perspectives that differ from yours and they don't have to be based on facts or logic.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:03 pm
by Parataxis
rarefind wrote:Parataxis wrote:rarefind wrote:
No, it isn't a nothing burger. You are coming at this from the perspective of our front office and ownership and I understand that. Share your sentiment with the average fan and they will disagree.
No, I'm coming at it from the perspective of myself, an average fan. One who goes to maybe 6-8 games a year and the occasional road trip as an excuse to see another city.
Do I wish we'd signed Ohtani? Yeah, duh.
But given that we didn't, am I glad that we tried for it? Also, yeah.
Like, you don't win them all. There's 30 teams, more FAs (including more 'top FAs') are going to sign with other teams that will sign with the Jays. That's just life.
You are an average fan that posts on the Toronto Blue Jays RealGM forum?
There are perspectives that differ from yours and they don't have to be based on facts or logic.
I am as much as you are. I'm not sure why you think you're 'connected to the average fan' any more than anybody else on this forum?
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:36 pm
by rarefind
Parataxis wrote:rarefind wrote:Parataxis wrote:
No, I'm coming at it from the perspective of myself, an average fan. One who goes to maybe 6-8 games a year and the occasional road trip as an excuse to see another city.
Do I wish we'd signed Ohtani? Yeah, duh.
But given that we didn't, am I glad that we tried for it? Also, yeah.
Like, you don't win them all. There's 30 teams, more FAs (including more 'top FAs') are going to sign with other teams that will sign with the Jays. That's just life.
You are an average fan that posts on the Toronto Blue Jays RealGM forum?
There are perspectives that differ from yours and they don't have to be based on facts or logic.
I am as much as you are. I'm not sure why you think you're 'connected to the average fan' any more than anybody else on this forum?
You're grasping at straws here and I'm done taking up real estate in this thread debating this further. You can believe whatever you choose.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:49 pm
by polo007
Olney on Blue Jays’ pursuit of Ohtani: I think Toronto was used for leverage - TSN 1050 TorontoESPN MLB Insider Buster Olney joins First Up to discuss Shohei Ohtani landing a record-setting contract from the Los Angeles Dodgers, why the unique structure of Ohtani’s deal somewhat misleads its present-day value, why he believes Ohtani used the Blue Jays as leverage and more.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:41 pm
by WuTang_OG
adnan virk was on fan590 this morning and said schnieder was saying they r getting ohtani at the winter meetings
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:12 pm
by WuTang_OG
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:07 pm
by StringerBell
WuTang_OG wrote:adnan virk was on fan590 this morning and said schnieder was saying they r getting ohtani at the winter meetings
Wait, what? Did he really say that? Which morning show was he on?
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:12 pm
by WuTang_OG
StringerBell wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:adnan virk was on fan590 this morning and said schnieder was saying they r getting ohtani at the winter meetings
Wait, what? Did he really say that? Which morning show was he on?
https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/morning-show/ohtani-mania-jays-next-steps-with-ben-nicholson-smith-adnan-virk/he told this to greg amsters in a starbucks line as per adnan .. maybe jokingly hard to get context
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:17 pm
by Harry Palmer
I am so tired of his outrage. First, he’s uncritical until the **** actually hits the fan, then he’s so melodramatic even as a rabid sports fan I’m like ‘it’s just sports, nobody died’…why has his emotional reaction to the sports news of the day become news? He doesn’t offer insight, he rarely if ever has insider info, he’s just a kind of human thermostat.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:24 pm
by WuTang_OG
Harry Palmer wrote:I am so tired of his outrage. First, he’s uncritical until the **** actually hits the fan, then he’s so melodramatic even as a rabid sports fan I’m like ‘it’s just sports, nobody died’…why has his emotional reaction to the sports news of the day become news? He doesn’t offer insight, he rarely if ever has insider info, he’s just a kind of human thermostat.
I think he's accurate that the Jays shoulda sent something out on Friday that Ohtani was not on the flight. Friday was a shyt show
As soon as JP sent out that tweet, alarm bells should have went off to Shatkins - helloo ur getting played.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:26 pm
by dagger
He's also wrong that the Jays didn't try to quell speculation. Two local beat writers came out in the midst of the frenzy buildup saying there was no decision yet, citing sources that could only have been with the team since they don't have any sources with CAA or the Dodgers. It's just that the Morosi tweets basically made everyone go nuts.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:34 pm
by SharoneWright
Harry Palmer wrote:I am so tired of his outrage. First, he’s uncritical until the **** actually hits the fan, then he’s so melodramatic even as a rabid sports fan I’m like ‘it’s just sports, nobody died’…why has his emotional reaction to the sports news of the day become news? He doesn’t offer insight, he rarely if ever has insider info, he’s just a kind of human thermostat.
Well his fundamental point is smart. Probably because it's what I was mostly thinking on Friday.
For hours, with the plane in the sky, there was radio silence from the Jays and CAA. If there was nothing going on at the time, I was thinking CAA would say something. But obviously in hindsight it was up to the Jays. I'm sure they were calling CAA during that interval, probably being placated by them, not knowing they were being played.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:47 pm
by WuTang_OG
dagger wrote:He's also wrong that the Jays didn't try to quell speculation. Two local beat writers came out in the midst of the frenzy buildup saying there was no decision yet, citing sources that could only have been with the team since they don't have any sources with CAA or the Dodgers. It's just that the Morosi tweets basically made everyone go nuts.
Not really.
These tweets meant nothing - if they did, the fan base wouldn't have been dooped on Friday
The root of friday was the flight. Once Morosi tweeted that nonsense they should have squashed it by saying he wasn't.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:59 pm
by SharoneWright
It was reported before the Morosi tweet that it was Robert Herjavec on that flight. A CAA client.
The Jays should have put 2+ 2 together tout suite. And (level 1) directly updated the fans on their own social media OR.. (level 2) told CAA and Ohtani to go f themselves.
And it's why I'm likely never forgiving Ohtani himself --- for willingly engaging in a ruse, as opposed to on-the-level negotiations.
Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:09 pm
by Harry Palmer
SharoneWright wrote:It was reported before the Morosi tweet that it was Robert Herjavec on that flight. A CAA client.
The Jays should have figured that out tout suite. And (level 1) directly updated the fans on their own social media OR.. (level 2) told CAA and Ohtani to go f themselves.
And it's why I'm likely never forgiving Ohtani himself --- for willingly engaging in a ruse, as opposed to on-the-level negotiations.
What’s unforgivable? Teams looking to make trades use other teams as leverage all the time. No one calls that unethical or unforgivable, they call it smart negotiating.
The flight took on a life of its own, but it’s still just a few hours (in negotiations that had been ongoing for months or a least weeks.) I doubt the Jays felt that making some public statement about it mattered much, or was really their call to make. It’s not their fault we went crazy. And it would also just be weird for a team to issue some categorical statement about who is and who is not onboard a flight, especially when they didn’t really have any info unavailable to the public. We always want someone to blame in these situations because we feel victimized. But honestly, of all the parties involved, we ourselves hold the only real protection from these overreactions. And to a degree being a fan is submitting yourself to emotional roller coasters voluntarily, not sure how this aspect grades out all that differently.