Article on Duren and whats being built. Some surprising stats.

[zeebneeb]

First the article in question;

https://fansided.com/posts/jalen-duren-special-chris-paul-returns

Snippets;

"Duren is already a tremendous force on the glass, leading the league in defensive rebound percentage and ranking seventh in offensive rebound percentage. He has crashed the glass relentlessly and is adept at carving our space with his upper body strength or simply beating other players to the ball.

Those same skills translate on the defensive end where he's already a strong rim protector and showing a burgeoning ability to defend in space and eventually anchor an elite defense. But his growth as a versatile offensive hub is by far the most useful development for the Pistons."

Duren is always put in the same action game after game, but this i did not realize;

"The base of his offensive contributions is as a screener and roll-man. Per Second Spectrum data pulled by Jared Dubin, he is involved in just under 26 two-man actions per game with Cade Cunningham, the most of any duo in the league. He ranks in the 82nd percentile in scoring efficiency as the roll man, second only to Myles Turner among players who finish at least 2.5 such possessions per game."

https://www.lastnightinbasketball.com/p/sharing-the-floor-vs-playing-together?publication_id=18403&utm_campaign=email-post-title&r=7sy8&utm_medium=email

Duo Pgame P100
1 Cade Cunningham | Jalen Duren 25.97 45.51

2 Anfernee Simons | Deandre Ayton 24.70 44.19

3 Joel Embiid | Tyrese Maxey 24.18 42.95

4 Alperen Sengun | Fred VanVleet 21.82 36.77

5 Jamal Murray | Nikola Jokic 19.40 39.39

6 Myles Turner | Tyrese Haliburton 19.30 36.47

7 Coby White | Nikola Vucevic 19.25 32.41

8 Dereck Lively II | Luka Doncic 17.56 36.24


This blew my mind. I knew that the action between Cade/Duren was happening, but not to this degree. It shows an area the Pistons are trying to push, and it is working.

"Duren has also been getting a ton of elbow touches this season — 5.2 per game, about the same as Joel Embiid, Bam Adebayo or Anthony Davis. Some of those are coming on short-rolls but a lot are simply him acting as a hub looking for dribble hand-offs for guards wheeling up off down screens on the wing."

This snippet really drives it home for me. They are using Duren in a hybrid role. Jokic/Bam actions.

Further in the article, which I am encouraging you to read, as it includes video clips showing the actions, it talks about this;

"And while it's not showing up in the standings, the Pistons are seeing results. The five-man unit of Cunningham, Ivey, Duren, rookie Amen Thompson and sharpshooter and trade deadline acquisition Simone Fontecchio has already played more minutes than any other Pistons lineup this season, outscoring opponents by an average of 4.2 points per 100 possessions over seven games. Across the entire season, the Pistons have essentially a neutral point differential in the 550 minutes Duren, Ivey and Cunningham have been on the floor together."

This is insanely encouraging for the core of Cade/Ivey/Duren because of their extreme youth.

It also shows exactly what we all know, as it's obvious on the court;

"The five-man unit of Cunningham, Ivey, Duren, rookie Amen Thompson and sharpshooter and trade deadline acquisition Simone Fontecchio has already played more minutes than any other Pistons lineup this season, outscoring opponents by an average of 4.2 points per 100 possessions over seven games."

Good things are indeed happening, so even though we are all absolutely discouraged, and rightfully so, there are good things happening here!

DUREN STATS FOR SEASON.(43 games)

14 PPG
12 RPG
2.6 APG
0.9 BPG
0.5 SPG
2.0 TO

.750 FT%
.627 FG%

Duren also has 31 Double Doubles this season, good enough for 10th in the league, or tied for 8th when including ties.(him and Bam are tied at 31 for example)

[bstein14]

Jalen Duren is 5th in the NBA in PPP as a pick and roll "roll man" at least 2 times per game as a roll man.

Myles Turner 4.0 picks per game as a roll man and 1.44 points per possession as a roll man. (Haliburton making him look great)
Daniel Gafford 2.0 picks per game as a roll man and 1.43 PPP
KAT 2.0 picks per game as a roll man and 1.41 PPP
Nick Richards 2.0 picks per game as a roll man and 1.38 PPP
Jalen Duren 2.5 picks per game as a roll man and 1.36 PPP
--------
Porzingas 1.33 PPP
Chet 1.30 PPP
Sabonis 1.30 PPP


These are the guys who get the most pick and rolls as a ball handler in the NBA.

Trae Young 12.2 possessions and 0.98 PPP
Jalen Brunson 11.4 and 1.01 PPP
Luka 11.3 and 1.09 PPP
Cade 10.8 and 0.92 PPP
Dame 10.1 and 1.00 PPP
Donavan Mitchell 9.9 and 0.96 PPP
Anfernee Simons 9.3 and .89 PPP
Maxey 8.8 and .96 PPP
Haliburton 8.4 and 1.08 PPP
SGA 8.0 and 1.12 PPP (Leads NBA among players who run at least 5 pick and rolls per game as ball handler)
Curry 8.0 and .95 PPP
Fox 8.0 and .95 PPP

[buzzkilloton]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

[zeebneeb]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

[buzzkilloton]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

Cade is leveling up its really happening. Everyone should be so excited right now. I really think we finally landed that ALL NBA level player we were hoping for.

Tech has been such an awesome addition. Hes straight up better then BB. Grimes hasnt been hitting shots yet but man is hes a good defender.

I dont expect us to win a bunch of games ROS or anything. I do expect us to be a hell of alot more competitive then we were though. If we play this offseason right I could actually see us in the playin next year. No way would I have ever had such a thought pre all star break.

[TPA]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

I didn't want to say it toward the beginning of the year, but the Pistons might have a season this year that somewhat mimics what the Lions did two seasons ago. Atrocious first half, promising second half. Again, with how bad we have been, it seemed like a wild comparison (and it still may be), but the recent successes the team has realized just might be a tone-setter to finish the season with some real momentum heading into the off-season.

Also, great summation of that article Zeeb. Thanks for sharing.

[Billl]

Duren needs to make some major stride defensively. He ends up in no-mans-land way too often on the perimeter. And for a guy as athletic as he is, he's not a good shotblocker. Hopefully some of that is just the fact our perimeter guys have given up so many easy drives, but it's concerning that he's not getting over 0.8 pbg just being any athletic freak. He's still super young, but shotblocking is one of the things young, athletic bigs usually bring to the table and then you are just working on their defensive decision making.

[joedumars1]

He’s my fav, cade font and ausar close to 2nds, then Ivey, but I’d still probably draft sarr maybe the sf guy if they think he’s better

[Uncle Mxy]

""And while it's not showing up in the standings, the Pistons are seeing results. The five-man unit of Cunningham, Ivey, Duren, rookie Amen Thompson and sharpshooter and trade deadline acquisition Simone Fontecchio has already played more minutes than any other Pistons lineup this season, outscoring opponents by an average of 4.2 points per 100 possessions over seven games. Across the entire season, the Pistons have essentially a neutral point differential in the 550 minutes Duren, Ivey and Cunningham have been on the floor together."

Yeahh.... about that. :)

[zeebneeb]

""And while it's not showing up in the standings, the Pistons are seeing results. The five-man unit of Cunningham, Ivey, Duren, rookie Amen Thompson and sharpshooter and trade deadline acquisition Simone Fontecchio has already played more minutes than any other Pistons lineup this season, outscoring opponents by an average of 4.2 points per 100 possessions over seven games. Across the entire season, the Pistons have essentially a neutral point differential in the 550 minutes Duren, Ivey and Cunningham have been on the floor together."

Yeahh.... about that. :)

Yeah, I caught that as well.

Go to basketball reference, and start on Ausars page, then go to Amens page, and go back and forth real quick while looking at their profile picture, It's hilarious. I noticed it while comparing their stats.

[tmorgan]

Duren really does need to live off tape of Adebayo.

He has solid touch to develop away from the basket. He’s a great athlete with amazing hands, but he’s just not that big. Guys like Vuc can move him around too easily, and that won’t change unless he gets huge, which will hurt him in other ways.

For a center, right now, he’s a plus rebounder, plus passer, average touch, below average defender. The defense will get better with experience. If he can up the other elements of his game and really improve his defense, he’s a potential star. He’s so young that it’s possible.

[Uncle Mxy]

They're really the same person, y'know.

[zeebneeb]

They're really the same person, y'know.

Absolute perfection.

[Kalamazoo317]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

Those all bench lineups are still killing us in a lot of games. If we could get Monty to stagger the starters as much as the real coaches do, we might really start seeing something.

[Cowology]

Man this is the most bullish I've felt on the Pistons in forever. Give me more stats to rosterbate too plz!

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

Those all bench lineups are still killing us in a lot of games. If we could get Monty to stagger the starters as much as the real coaches do, we might really start seeing something.

Why would we do that now? Winning is nice, but this is a development season and our "starting 5" have barely logged any minutes together on the season. The priority is to get those 5 as many minutes together as humanly possible.

[flow]

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

Those all bench lineups are still killing us in a lot of games. If we could get Monty to stagger the starters as much as the real coaches do, we might really start seeing something.

Why would we do that now? Winning is nice, but this is a development season and our "starting 5" have barely logged any minutes together on the season. The priority is to get those 5 as many minutes together as humanly possible.

Disagree. The priority should be to find the best lineups, not to commit to a certain lineup that may or may not be the best and run it into the ground stubbornly. These are all primarily mid-level (at best) nba players. No one but Cade should have a cemented spot in the starting lineup.

.

[A_dub06]

Yeah rebounding or not, his rim defence ain’t great and there’s a lot of possessions where he simply looks lost or allows himself to be put in a bad spot and not able to defend the paint properly. As long as we don’t fall in the draft I’m taking Sarr and if Duren nets us a good, young two-way player like Trey Murphy I’m packing his bags for him.

I think paying money to someone like Duren which will command a decent bag but not provide elite defence without spacing the floor is a really dangerous move. Yes he’s got time before that contract is going to need to be paid, but I think with what we’ve seen in the playoffs, bigs unless they are immensely talented and/or play decent switchable defence you just can’t have them on the court during crunch time.

[Kalamazoo317]

I am convinced, that barring Monty Williams screwing the pooch again, and benching another player for no reason, we are going to see some awesome basketball to close out the season.

These past three games are a turning point for the team, and the realization that they can run 90% of the leagues teams to death out there with their young legs.

Prepare they selves.

Those all bench lineups are still killing us in a lot of games. If we could get Monty to stagger the starters as much as the real coaches do, we might really start seeing something.

Why would we do that now? Winning is nice, but this is a development season and our "starting 5" have barely logged any minutes together on the season. The priority is to get those 5 as many minutes together as humanly possible.

I'd argue that staggering more could get Ivey more on-ball reps and Ausar more reps where he was the only non-shooter (if we, you know, dared to play Stew at 5). Which could benefit them both developmentally.

[MotownMadness]

He's probably gonna be the best rim running/rebounding big in the league but I don't know if that's good enough.