Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think?

[BDM22]

Cade's cap hold is $35M next year even if we hold out on him, which is just a hair under what he'll make on a max extension anyways. That's part of being the #1 pick. Cap is gone regardless.

Waiting on Maxey's deal helps Philly because his cap hold is only $13M because of how late he was drafted. Totally different situation. No benefit in waiting unless you want the option to let Cade walk for nothing.

Alrighty,so it's set. We can't kick the space down the road. This is the summer to spend....we build around Cade by adding players to our young core with our cap space. Including adding another young player by draft. Or we trade the young guys with our pick to add an impact player thats hopefully as good or better as Cade and then build it out with remaining space....or.... we trade Cade. Tank for Cooper

I like Cade - not as much as Vecenie, but I like him. With that said, if I’m choosing between (1) spending all the money to vault us to 30 wins, or (2) hitting the reset button with a new HOBO and a star-studded draft next year, I’ll go with option 2.

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

Hang on to Ausar and this year's pick since they're on rookie deals for a while.

Then you start looking at teams trying to duck the tax that might be willing to attach assets to get off of bad contracts (and I'm talking multi-year contracts, not this Joe Harris stuff). Could come out with like 6-7 extra 1st rounders in the end.

[JNewton]

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

This is more or less the most prudent path forward. Cade to San Antonio makes a lot of sense on many levels. Wemby and him would be a dream duo. Continuing to build around the current group does nothing but cement the Pistons as a team with a 30-win ceiling for the rest of the decade.

[joedumars1]

Alrighty,so it's set. We can't kick the space down the road. This is the summer to spend....we build around Cade by adding players to our young core with our cap space. Including adding another young player by draft. Or we trade the young guys with our pick to add an impact player thats hopefully as good or better as Cade and then build it out with remaining space....or.... we trade Cade. Tank for Cooper

I like Cade - not as much as Vecenie, but I like him. With that said, if I’m choosing between (1) spending all the money to vault us to 30 wins, or (2) hitting the reset button with a new HOBO and a star-studded draft next year, I’ll go with option 2.

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

Hang on to Ausar and this year's pick since they're on rookie deals for a while.

Then you start looking at teams trying to duck the tax that might be willing to attach assets to get off of bad contracts (and I'm talking multi-year contracts, not this Joe Harris stuff). Could come out with like 6-7 extra 1st rounders in the end.

if we went thus route, I’d say give keys to Ausar let him try to improve as much as possible if we win we win if not whatever lol

[MotownMadness]

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

This is more or less the most prudent path forward. Cade to San Antonio makes a lot of sense on many levels. Wemby and him would be a dream duo. Continuing to build around the current group does nothing but cement the Pistons as a team with a 30-win ceiling for the rest of the decade.

Waste of time to even talk about

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Alrighty,so it's set. We can't kick the space down the road. This is the summer to spend....we build around Cade by adding players to our young core with our cap space. Including adding another young player by draft. Or we trade the young guys with our pick to add an impact player thats hopefully as good or better as Cade and then build it out with remaining space....or.... we trade Cade. Tank for Cooper

I like Cade - not as much as Vecenie, but I like him. With that said, if I’m choosing between (1) spending all the money to vault us to 30 wins, or (2) hitting the reset button with a new HOBO and a star-studded draft next year, I’ll go with option 2.

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

Hang on to Ausar and this year's pick since they're on rookie deals for a while.

Then you start looking at teams trying to duck the tax that might be willing to attach assets to get off of bad contracts (and I'm talking multi-year contracts, not this Joe Harris stuff). Could come out with like 6-7 extra 1st rounders in the end.

If a team (OKC?) really wants to give us a first rounder for Stewart, do it. Heck, I’d take a pair of seconds to get his salary off the books.

If this is the route, Duren should definitely go - because he and Ausar can’t coexist. Letting Ivey go Jordan Poole next year would at least be a little more exciting…..

Even collecting a bunch of second rounders can bear fruit - Weaver did it once with Sasser but obviously not enough. After the top two shooters in the draft (Risaschar and Sheppard), the next best appears to be the guard from Duke (McCain), who is projected to go in the twenties (edit: seeing him as high as 13 now - yikes). I’d trade down for him and future picks……

So the million dollar question becomes…… will the next HOBO hit the Blow Up button?

[BDM22]

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

This is more or less the most prudent path forward. Cade to San Antonio makes a lot of sense on many levels. Wemby and him would be a dream duo. Continuing to build around the current group does nothing but cement the Pistons as a team with a 30-win ceiling for the rest of the decade.

Waste of time to even talk about

Oh, for sure lol. I'm just planting my flag on the idea that this win-now push from our current position in terms of assets is not going to end up anywhere good (which I classify as actual title contention) without some insane stroke of luck.

[MotownMadness]

This is more or less the most prudent path forward. Cade to San Antonio makes a lot of sense on many levels. Wemby and him would be a dream duo. Continuing to build around the current group does nothing but cement the Pistons as a team with a 30-win ceiling for the rest of the decade.

Waste of time to even talk about

Oh, for sure lol. I'm just planting my flag on the idea that this win-now push from our current position in terms of assets is not going to end up anywhere good (which I classify as actual title contention) without some insane stroke of luck.

Hopefully Cade continues to grow. If he does want out in 4 years or whatever maybe we can actually kick off the next rebuild with multiple 1st.

[BDM22]

If a team (OKC?) really wants to give us a first rounder for Stewart, do it. Heck, I’d take a pair of seconds to get his salary off the books.

If this is the route, Duren should definitely go - because he and Ausar can’t coexist. Letting Ivey go Jordan Poole next year would at least be a little more exciting…..

Even collecting a bunch of second rounders can bear fruit - Weaver did it once with Sasser but obviously not enough. After the top two shooters in the draft (Risaschar and Sheppard), the next best appears to be the guard from Duke (McCain), who is projected to go in the twenties (edit: seeing him as high as 13 now - yikes). I’d trade down for him and future picks……

So the million dollar question becomes…… will the next HOBO hit the Blow Up button?

After this disastrous stretch with Troy, I think Gores will never sign off on fully blowing it up ever again.

[JNewton]

That has been my take too, to trade Cade and whatever other players have value and start over with a draft asset surplus. However, the point is, there is no cap to be had next season by waiting on Cade's extension. Can't kick the can down the road and try again next year. You either trade him immediately or extend him. No benefit in waiting like Philly w/Maxey.

I do think we could get a few 1sts for Cade. I wonder what San Antonio would give. Probably could get a mid-late 1st for Stew. Probably one 1st for a re-signed Fontecchio next year (unless his contract is crazy). I'd probably give the keys to Ivey in that situation, let him improve his value from this year and then shop him by next year's deadline. Happy to ship off Duren as well.

This is more or less the most prudent path forward. Cade to San Antonio makes a lot of sense on many levels. Wemby and him would be a dream duo. Continuing to build around the current group does nothing but cement the Pistons as a team with a 30-win ceiling for the rest of the decade.

Waste of time to even talk about

Agreed; they will do the dumb thing as they have since Tom Gores has been the owner. The only real solution here is the league contracting the team.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

If a team (OKC?) really wants to give us a first rounder for Stewart, do it. Heck, I’d take a pair of seconds to get his salary off the books.

If this is the route, Duren should definitely go - because he and Ausar can’t coexist. Letting Ivey go Jordan Poole next year would at least be a little more exciting…..

Even collecting a bunch of second rounders can bear fruit - Weaver did it once with Sasser but obviously not enough. After the top two shooters in the draft ( Risaschar and Sheppard), the next best appears to be the guard from Duke (McCain), who is projected to go in the twenties (edit: seeing him as high as 13 now - yikes). I’d trade down for him and future picks……

So the million dollar question becomes…… will the next HOBO hit the Blow Up button?

After this disastrous stretch with Troy, I think Gores will never sign off on fully blowing it up ever again.

Pistons Basketball…. Retooling since the Iverson trade!

[Canadafan]

Waste of time to even talk about

Oh, for sure lol. I'm just planting my flag on the idea that this win-now push from our current position in terms of assets is not going to end up anywhere good (which I classify as actual title contention) without some insane stroke of luck.

Hopefully Cade continues to grow. If he does want out in 4 years or whatever maybe we can actually kick off the next rebuild with multiple 1st.

I say just add a couple younger guys like Obi Toppin at PF and Monk or Tyus off the bench.
We might still auck enough to land Cooper but still be set up good for future instead of blowing it up.
Better option than overpaying Tobias

[Cowology]

If a team (OKC?) really wants to give us a first rounder for Stewart, do it. Heck, I’d take a pair of seconds to get his salary off the books.

If this is the route, Duren should definitely go - because he and Ausar can’t coexist. Letting Ivey go Jordan Poole next year would at least be a little more exciting…..

Even collecting a bunch of second rounders can bear fruit - Weaver did it once with Sasser but obviously not enough. After the top two shooters in the draft ( Risaschar and Sheppard), the next best appears to be the guard from Duke (McCain), who is projected to go in the twenties (edit: seeing him as high as 13 now - yikes). I’d trade down for him and future picks……

So the million dollar question becomes…… will the next HOBO hit the Blow Up button?

After this disastrous stretch with Troy, I think Gores will never sign off on fully blowing it up ever again.

Pistons Basketball…. Retooling since the Iverson trade!

Excuse me, but we've been performing a "Restoration" for several years now. Totally different.

[theBigLip]

Whether we “rebuild”, “retool” or just “move forward”, there is one thing that is consistent - don’t sign/trade for upside down contracts. As long as we keep doing that we will always have flexibility. It took us awhile to get here so let’s not blow it.

Maybe Ivey isn’t worth the 5th pick but that’s in the past. Is he worth his current rookie scale contract? I’m thinking the rest of the rookies have some value as well. The only one that is questionable is Stewart since he got his extension. Since there was trade interest in him before the trade deadline, I assume that it is at least neutral if not positive.

[BDM22]

Whether we “rebuild”, “retool” or just “move forward”, there is one thing that is consistent - don’t sign/trade for upside down contracts. As long as we keep doing that we will always have flexibility. It took us awhile to get here so let’s not blow it.

Maybe Ivey isn’t worth the 5th pick but that’s in the past. Is he worth his current rookie scale contract? I’m thinking the rest of the rookies have some value as well. The only one that is questionable is Stewart since he got his extension. Since there was trade interest in him before the trade deadline, I assume that it is at least neutral if not positive.

The extensions are inevitably going to flip all of these guys to the side of Stewart. No one takes a team friendly deal to stay here and it's hard to blame them.

[A_dub06]

Whether we “rebuild”, “retool” or just “move forward”, there is one thing that is consistent - don’t sign/trade for upside down contracts. As long as we keep doing that we will always have flexibility. It took us awhile to get here so let’s not blow it.

Maybe Ivey isn’t worth the 5th pick but that’s in the past. Is he worth his current rookie scale contract? I’m thinking the rest of the rookies have some value as well. The only one that is questionable is Stewart since he got his extension. Since there was trade interest in him before the trade deadline, I assume that it is at least neutral if not positive.

We’ve already blown it. Weaver has had multiple opportunities to trade players and get assets in the form of picks but instead digs his heels in, overvalues players and lets the opportunity pass by. Yeah we have cap space but this isn’t 2015 let alone 2020 where cap space actually had value. Cap space is far less valuable now and teams have smartened up with trading valuable 1wt round picks just to shed salary.

Ingram is not a solution, Lavine is not a solution, was kindve hoping the wolves would flame out and want to get cheaper shedding Kat and his huge contract given they have Reid but with the wolves performing as well as they have the owner may be more prepared to pay the tax thinking they are close to a championship.

The biggest issue is that there’s no clear path to improving outside of internal development once we make one or two moves. Rebuilding teams are supposed to prioritise asset building as well as development and we’ve done both poorly. The decisions were compounded with our poor outcome of the lottery, but weaver doesn’t think two or three steps ahead and only what’s directly in front of him, and even then through an idiot lens

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Yeah we have cap space but this isn’t 2015 let alone 2020 where cap space actually had value. Cap space is far less valuable now and teams have smartened up with trading valuable 1wt round picks just to shed salary.

I think a skilled GM worth a crappy team and the most cap space in the league would make out like a bandit this summer - the Pistons are the only crappy team with lots of cap space!

Hopefully the new HOBO is skilled. Because Weaver would probably trade for Simmons and a top 55 protected second rounder

[Moses ShamMoses]

People thought we were close? That's news to me. We're the worst team in the league consecutive years. That accurately reflects our current situation.

[NYPiston]

Rent our cap space for minor assets? No. That's not a reasonable plan at this point. The team needs to start adding some guys who can actually play basketball.

We've got all the cap space in the world, recent lottery picks on the roster as trade assets, and a top5 draft pick coming, so it's not like we won't have a path towards making a big leap. I just don't trust current management to make good enough decision to get there.

Also, the direction duren takes is going to really define this rebuild. We need whoever got in Wiseman's ear last summer and got him to buy into a laser focus on defense and protecting the paint to be doing the same thing with Duren. The first 3 games of the season, he was out blocking shots, rebounding and generally looking like a beast. That was the best the team looked all season by a longshot. The rest of the year he was just flat out bad defensively.

Yeah, that's a dumb plan. I'm sure Cade would be thrilled with them punting another season and how does it help the development of the young guys if you're taking on bloated contracts of **** players to build up an asset base, this is something you do in Year 1 or 2 of a rebuild not Year 4.

Like it or not, this is the young core they're going to have to work with going forward. Identify the 2-3 that you want to build around and trade off the rest of them for players that might not have as much upside but fit the roster better. They have to take steps forward, not steps back for the sake of maybe taking a step forward 2-3 years from now. My Core 2 is Cade and Ausar, I'd gauge the market for Ivey, Duren, 2024 1st and go from there. Fontecchio, Stewart and Sasser can be the support pieces. Obviously Stewart and Sasser are trade bait too but I think you need to keep some players to supplement the Core 2 so those are the 3 I'd keep and I don't think they enough trade value anyway to be worth trading. Keep Grimes as a backup 2 as well if he's ever healthy enough to play an NBA game so the skeleton roster for me would be Cade-Ausar-Tek as starters, get a viable 2 and 5 to fill out that group and Sasser-Grimes-Stewart off the bench.

Oh, and a new GM should be making these decisions with a new coach guiding them but that should go without saying.

[bstein14]

C: Duren / Stewart / Wiseman
F: ??? / Ausar
F: ??? / Font
G: ??? / Grimes
G: Cade / Ivey / Sasser

That's a really solid bench. Ivey is bad as a starter but could be fine as a 15 MPG backup to Cade. Font would be 6th man of the year type guy off the bench potentially for sure a double digit bench scorer. Grimes, Ausar and Stew should give the bench above average defense as well. Ideally Duren is your worst offensive starter and Cade is your worst defensive starter. We need to add three average to a little above average starters and our roster looks good. Can you do that with $66 million in cap space and a top 3 pick? Maybe but maybe not.

Jerami Grant, Malik Monk and Miles Bridges at the 2/3/4 spots would likely push us to a play-in team.

Obi Toppin, OG Anunoby, Tyus Jones would likely get us there as well.

Can Weaver go out and get three good starters for us? That's the question. If its only one we're still in trouble. If its only two we probably fall just short of the play-in. But if he can go get three good starters (average to a little above average) we likely have a play-in team on our hands if mostly healthy.

[NYPiston]

I think we are further away than what a lot people on this board think we are. I’m not going to pretend like I know how exactly to fix this mess but:

1) due to poor asset management we simply don’t have the players or picks required to make multiple trades to reformat the roster with good players.

2) even if else make a trade or two and get slightly better this year, there is clear way to improve other than internal development for reasons made in the previous point.

3) Cade is a good player and he’s going to improve, but pretending like he’s this beast that going to be top 10 in the league is not realistic. If our best player is not one of the best in the league how far are we really going?

The more I think about it I really think blowing up completely reading Cade so we don’t have this timer to get better before he asks for a trade. Weaver has gotten us into this mess and personally I don’t think it’s salvageable at all. We could make moves and not improve enough and then he asks for a trade. Why go all through that when the road to getting in multiple good players on reasonable contracts is highly unlikely. It’s just pushing s*** up hill at this point. Would prefer to gut our entire management and roster and build from scratch.

I don't know why some people keep saying this. The mood on this board is as gloomy as it gets outside of theBigLip basically so I'm not sure where you get this idea that "a lot" of people on this board think the Pistons are close to competing for anything meaningful. Hell, you got some posters who think that not one player on the current roster will be in the league when the Pistons make the playoffs.